My point is that you're oversimplifying things. And are drawing conclusions that are not justifiable. No matter how emotionally gratifying they may be.
That's the thing, some people forget that punks are not a simple aesthetic but a movement. You can dress punk, but you can't be punk without agreeing to what they stand for
I once knew a guy who had a multicolored mohawk, and he had a few of those boxes checked. Although, I think he just had the mohawk, because he was losing his hair and had a super bad receding hairline. He had very conservative views…
Jello had a finger on the pulse of the government and knew what he was talking about in every song. He skewered the system in every way it deserved. We need him now.
Really? I was there in 91 and on, and we beat the shit out of everyone who tried to infiltrate our scene with nazi bullshit. And this was in Houston, TX. So, idk where the fuck you were from in your scene, but it sounds like I would have put a cue-ball in a sock, and swung it at your conformist head
fascism is ultra-nationalism; a rw ideology: displays of flags to reinforce a policy of national unity- one race, one religion, one voice, one party, one leader; discrimination against democracy, socialism, communism, persecution of religion, policy against immigration, discrediting the intelectual
Being a punk used to be about anarchy and anti-establishment, how is it punk to follow what the establishment is pushing onto the society? DEI, LGBT are propaganda pushed by governments and enterprises.
btw, grunge is not a kind of music, it's the tar left in a mary jane pipe after a long night. When the industry came up with that name we were all equally entertained and disgusted.
It's rock and roll.
(btw, a lot of musicians of the time also hated the industry term rock and roll lol.)
Yeah but grunge was just the description that landed on a certain kind of Rock N Roll, I wouldn’t put Nirvana or Alice In Chains in the same category as ACDC, they all had their similar yet unique sound. It’s just semantics because anything with a guitar and drums could be defined Rock N Roll.
It's definitely an industry term that may have once been used to describe a certain scene but as far as an actual "sound"? I definitely agree with you there. Not even the Seattle bands sounded alike, let alone some of the others. It's not a genre and not descriptive of a sound.
That’s the same as when Christian say that sexiest racist people aren’t *real* Christians. I sang in a riot grrl band and not many of those non-sexist punk bros actually were when it came down to it. It’s a very machismo space if we’re being honest about it.
Omg I was literally saying this on a bored panda post a couple weeks ago. Some actress had a Suicidal tendencies t shirt on while leaning against a car that had a MAGA bumper sticker on it. I remarked how it was such an oxymoron.
I'm just saying people are more than capable of holding incongruent beliefs. I'm willing to bet there are people who self-identify as punk that also have one of these other unfortunate qualities.
to be a punk is to be rebellious against the societal norm,
a good example of a past form of rebellions would shockingly be the hippies, simply because at their times, the societal norm was...honestly more strict and violent toward outsiders while today
Still doing their best to be, as evidenced by the wordplay of The Dead Kennedys song. And unfortunately, they're somewhat diverse, meaning there's multiple cool things they try to ruin.
My old city was infested with those subhumans, so even the boardwalk I loved got its vibes ruined bc of em.
I don't know I've been in the scene for a long time and they were always around. Just saying "they're not with us" seems irresponsible. We should accept responsibility for them being around and forcibly remove our mistake.
Uhh no that's not enough. If you have rats in your house are you going to go out and say "there are no rats allowed in my house" or are you actually going to go get the rats out of your house?
I realize that fascists are not antifacists. I was also part of the punk crowd in the 80s so I’m quite aware that there was bigotry - which is not the same as fascism).
Fascists have always LIKED the punk scene because they think it’s an excuse to be a dickhead and a contrarian. That doesn’t make them punk and the Dead Kennedys set that record straight in the 70s. Boneheads and fascists can fuck right off out of the scene that was started in spite of them.
Tom-at-to Tom-ah-to. Fuck anyone with oppressive views. We only need to fight fascists but just because someone’s not a fascist YET doesn’t mean I’m gonna invite them into the punk space. That’s who we call posers.
There were factions of skinheads but they were never welcome in our group. We would call the cops when they crashed our parties. Better to hide the beer and take the hit than deal with them.
In the early days of the punk movement we had a major internal conflict over this. The Skin Head movement split with one half going very racist and the other going extremely anti-racist skinhead hunting skinheads.
Back in the day, early 80s, punks wore safety pins as a sign they were a safe person. Still wear a safety pin as an earring and will always be a safe person even though I'm cis male.
This is the whole proces. Pick a word , completely absolutise it to only mean what it means to you and then be mad about theoretical things that hurt no one.
Are we mad here about the fact that a racist had a pair of gloves on you liked or something? This is joining them , not protest.
Very agressively showing my point.
I find it naive to think that agressive shouting of how others need to allign morally around a vague concept is different than what you are shouting agressively about.
It "is" possible to like punk music and be somewhat morally lacking i see.
They were Boneheads where I’m from. And they really hated being called that. Those were some good times. Back in the day when you could get into a fist fight and not have to worry too much about getting shot.
He has a show on SXM that I listen to and he was telling a story about some MAGA who was telling him about how she loves “Killing in the Name of” and how she used that to fuel her fight of the Covid “jab” (shot) and he proceeded to tell her what that song was actually about. Shut her up real quick.
Your style doesn't matter, while yes it reflects some of your personality, wichever style you're in you could be any of what was listed above in the picture. Being punk doesn't mean anything, but the way you act does mean something.
Sadly people who call themselves all sorts of things we associate with have trash views. It's quite likely we have some of them ourselves if we reflect a bit - so we all need to look at ourselves and educate ourselves - guilt and accusations don't help much - get educated 🙂
If only that was true, there are lots of skin head punks and its hard to tell them they are not punks, and frankly what you call them is not much of an issue.
Setting the record straight, you’re referring to “boneheads”. Skinheads HATE nazis and actively target them with violence at shows. They’re both bald though so people lump them together.
You’re right, my mistake. They stemmed from skinheads, but there was a division into anti-racist skinheads (red skins and SHARPs) and white power skinheads (later called boneheads). I recently was educated on the difference, but my details are still shaky, so that’s my bad.
Yes but it’s an oxymoron. Punk was established as a response to oppressive authority. Nazis are by definition an oppressive authority. Hence why the Dead Kennedys told them to fuck off in the 70s and why those poser pricks regularly get beatdowns when they try to go to punk shows.
I listen to quite a few punk bands but I don’t have anywhere near enough cred to call myself one. I appreciate the genre more and more these days though.
Eh, I think the "industrial" is more of a style descriptor, describing their overall aesthetic rather than their attitude or philosophy. Gatekeeping based on preferred clothing isn't very punk, though I might be missing the reference and totally off base.
Nazi punks are about as old as punks. I'm not saying that's a good thing, but I find the premise that "punk" is somehow synonymous with "humanist" at the very least inconsistent with history.
I think the word punk had some association with homosexuality in Victorian times, prostitution, and as a derogatory term calling someone worthless. Then it was takes on as a badge of honour during the punk music era. It is a bit ironic to call yourself punk and hold bigoted views.
I was from NYC in the 70s through the 2000s and growing up there punk rockers were always the go to crowd to hang out. Your right. Any racism felt in a group was someone freshly invited who hasn't brushed the shit off their shoulders but soon learn racism is wasted time lying to oneself.
I’m fkn done with this administration. I’m posting this everywhere until I fall asleep.
No child should be ripped away from their family and homes. While maga is tucked away in bed, here are the lives being spared for their riches.
They also tried to switch what skinheads are . First time I saw any mention like this was in the movie SLC punk. Majority of posers who place themselves in a corner like a wild rabid animal just so they can get poked with a stick because they love miserably on themselves and others schadenfreude
In the UK the real ones aren't even called skinheads, just neighbor,bloke down the road, the sweet gal with the greyhound dog going for a stroll. Not hating anyone but Facists. America just flipped shit. Everyone's expected to grow up with a little hooliganism in them. It's FOOTBALL country ain't it
Look you need a moral and rational people to live in a free society. No one disagrees with this idea. The most effective means as a fundamental understone of it is to be anti bigotry and pro all sentient beings. 🙏❤️
Uh… that’s a lovely idea but the skinheads were (are) punk. I’ve witnessed many a fight between them and the crusty punks. I’ve also seen plenty of Jew hate coming from the punks and goths in my community since Oct 7. Don’t make broad generalizations about a whole group of people.
You shouldn't be involved in any music scene if you are racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, or xenophobic in any way.
You can try the skinheads, but if they're sharps you're going to get hurt.
The original punks used to attack skinheads all the time and vive versa. We punks are the natural enemies of fascist racist pos's and are not afraid to mix it up with those pasty white genocidal momma's boys.
Actually, I just peeped your replies and realized you’re not worth the air it took to power my fingers to type all that. No point arguing with nazi sympathizers.
Yes, but there’s a point when one stops being punk and starts being a contrarian. That’s a line a lot of soft punks like to walk. However, punks are at their core anti-oppressive authority, so any authority that regulates someone’s personal being is fascist and should be resisted.
The complicated (but also not complicated) history around that could practically be an instruction for our times. Nazi punks are an excellent example of co-option of aesthetic to neutralize liberatory movements.
Had some time to digest my thought a little. I'm old, lived through that period & saw how aesthetic policing can be self-neutralizing. For instance, slinging "poser" at someone with punk's core values & a band tshirt - but w some other ID difference (like being an Archie), makes solidarity hard.
I loved my local
Metal band dive bar that had live bands and everyone there was a diverse mixture of people, I won’t lie a little testosterone heavy, but everyone was like family and would do anything for each other. Good times.
Comments
It was the great Jello Biafra that penned the immortal lyric
‘Nazi punks, Nazi punks, Nazi punks FUCK OFF!!!’
Seems destined it was the Dead Kennedy’s song!
#hammelontrial
#littlebluecrunchythings
#madtruckergonemad
it can swing to both sides left and right
Stfu idiot
It's rock and roll.
(btw, a lot of musicians of the time also hated the industry term rock and roll lol.)
Check out ‘You Should Not Be Doing That’
a good example of a past form of rebellions would shockingly be the hippies, simply because at their times, the societal norm was...honestly more strict and violent toward outsiders while today
it has become too soft to even face danger
I applaud your attitude towards punching Nazis all day long, but that statement will still be dumb.
You're proof that even idiots can be on the right side of the issue, which is great. Go diversity!
My old city was infested with those subhumans, so even the boardwalk I loved got its vibes ruined bc of em.
Know your assignment!
Run, yell LA Migra!
Save your brethren!
Mexicans Lives Matter!
#LaMigra #ICERally #RunSaveMexicans #USDemocracy
Leaving this here
https://youtu.be/-MkRuV0aCcI?si=7Sv2x-f3jNxwK9O5
Human behaviour.
And both of you are right and wrong at the same time.
Eyeliner doesn't make you a badass.
As for the rest, yes I am. Proudly so in fact.
Are we mad here about the fact that a racist had a pair of gloves on you liked or something? This is joining them , not protest.
It's about more than playing it.
Out of the same roots as Wasp-iness came it's resistance , and then everyone tries to rewrite history offcourse.
https://www.britannica.com/art/punk
I'm curious what you think my assertion is by now?
I find it naive to think that agressive shouting of how others need to allign morally around a vague concept is different than what you are shouting agressively about.
It "is" possible to like punk music and be somewhat morally lacking i see.
Oh, right.
I remember reading about this and having a mind blown moment. The fash took*that* in the same way they took norse symbolism. 😥
(Credit: @datgreenmonstah.bsky.social)
It's shocking how many people got into such an obvious, wasteful scam
I feel like I am working against myself.
I don't know how many times I've heard that...
No child should be ripped away from their family and homes. While maga is tucked away in bed, here are the lives being spared for their riches.
They also, ironically, stole a lot of fashion and musical styles from the windrush generation.
I guess I studied human design
Nah that sounds wrong as well
You can try the skinheads, but if they're sharps you're going to get hurt.
Metal band dive bar that had live bands and everyone there was a diverse mixture of people, I won’t lie a little testosterone heavy, but everyone was like family and would do anything for each other. Good times.