If Sean Connery could play a Lithuanian-born Soviet submarine captain with a Scottish accent, I think the audience would be fine with some minor inconsistency in Brody's performance.
If Sean Connery could play an Egyptian-born Spaniard with a Scottish accent (against a "highlander" played by a Frenchman who spoke English he learned phonetically), Brody's would have been fine.
It makes me wonder though. Accents are a part of acting ability, right? If his accent wasn’t good enough, should he be winning awards for his acting? Just a thought.
It’s the same with any other aspect of movie making, right? If costumes were manipulated with AI, should the film be eligible to compete for best costume design?
Most actors do t even make a sustainable living. The ones you see on screen are mainly nepo babies, breaking into the industry is hard for an unknown. I agree we shouldn’t pay as much for actors and sports figures, but should pay artists, workers in the trades, the person at the grocery store, etc.
I feel like this is an acceptable tool, a modern version of older tools that improved or modified lighting, colors, or one could argue makeup and protestics to achieve the desired look of an actor
AI is just a tool. It's the results that matter. I've been a digital artist for years and I have added AI tools to my tool kit. I love it. The process I've been using for many years hasn't changed. 5 years from now this discussion will not happen.
Just because we have the technology doesn't mean we should use it because someone is always going to find a way to abuse it and hurt thousands if not millions of people.
I wish Ai as a whole wasn't used, everytime I see or hear of someone using it, it just makes me sad, because it's another moment, where actual artists and even the human mind, gets pushed to the side\shitted on.
Yes. They used a dialect coach and used AI to tweak it. No different, IMO, than using auto tune to fix something in the mix. So long as it's an audio engineer using the AI tool, it's a good use of AI. The problem is when the pros get replaced. Not when the pros use tools.
If you want realistic Hungarian pronunciation, just hire Hungarian actors. If you want realistic architectural drawings on a budget, use real ones from the public domain. Not only was AI not necessary, but the alternatives were probably cheaper. AI is used here to replace Hungary's culture with US'.
% like there are even noise reduction or color grading steps in a movie. Using this level I still consider as a tool and not disturbing a creative process.
The problem when they don't even try hide it, but that is there business scheme like for some internet "ai artists".
I feel like the fact Adrien Brody is playing the main role let's the movie to reach for more people compared to a "no name" very good hungarian actor.
And these people might search for hungarian architects who inspired this made up Tóth László :)
Dialog coaching is a thing - which might work if you are only looking for a specific accent in ones native language, but you can always tell if someone who speaks your native language only tried to memorize how things are pronaunced.
As a hungarian I don't really feel like my culture was replaced by AI. (And I'm very much against using AI in many fields)
No one except hungarians could tell if the accent of Brody was off. But for us it would have made the movie unenjoyable. I have no problem with "autotuning" it a little. %
I would think actors would really be bothered by this. And viewers should know this before they see it. Would AI start to be classified as animated film?
I think that Adrien Brody hasn't put out a good movie since King Kong. That's what I think. You however, are always awesome in your parts. Loved you in Larry Crowne. Kudos
Summarize a lease agreement for my grandma so she doesn't have to shell out $$$ to a predatory lawyer.
That ONE function good enuff for you, or do you need more?
Next step is...why bother learning an accent or language at all? Just speak the lines in English and the computers will fix it all in post. Come to think of it, why do we need actors at all, let's get the machines to do that as well. This world is exhausting.
I think AI is a two sided coin. One side, yes, it's fine IF you're planning on bringing back a character that the actor who played that character died i.e. Grand Moff Tarkin in Star Wars, however, on the other side, I do believe that the role could have gone to a different actor/actress instead of.
We really need to correct what we do and do not call, "Artificial Intelligence."
A thinking robot friend is AI.
A non-heuristic algorithm that is programmed by thousands of underpaid software designers is not AI. It is an example of how people will ignore any crime if it benefits them personally.
Was the AI trained using the contributions of people who gave their consent and were paid for this? AI alone makes it not art, but it's the theft that makes it immoral.
I think that as long as the AI is disclosed and the impacted actors agree, then ok. I am really not seeing that AI is a bad thing well until we have to kill it.
As a fan of classical movies with that good old real feel, all the way back to silent films, I think
this is in a category by itself. Definitely not interested. I like actors who can act- good or bad- on their own.
I think the production designer should have submitted the appropriate designs from his own imagination, not from a machine. The accents? Difficult choice. As a native Spanish speaker, mispronunciation by non-Latinx speakers bothers me. Dubbing, bad pronunciation or AI? What do Hungarians think?
I’m concerned the about the energy it takes to use all of the computers. I think AI should be focused on solving important issues like the climate crisis and diseases.
AI isn't Art and shouldn't be considered artistic. More people needs to agree that its use is limited for convinience sake and taking away actual artistic talent and skill. It doesn't even do the stuff its supposed to do well a lot of the time. It sucks at its job.
I think whether we want it to or not AI already is and will continue to saturate every aspect of our lives, even film and music. Much like in the post-modern era, what people view as art is changing.
Respeecher was developed by a group who wanted to counter text-to-speech, and other systems.
What prevents a human from falsifying data? AIs for use in science and engineering are trained for that specific purpose, with testing and monitoring in place. Right now, an example is large scale image processing. AI is a great tool if you’ve got 10,000+ images to sort through.
Unfortunately the problem of one specific form is in the public eye, so it overwhelms the more nuanced situation.
When people consider the problems of AI, they are talking about generative AI, not older and more common forms like finding a route to your destination.
I don't hate AI as a concept but this type of thing makes me want to ban it completely. It's like guns, if we can't use them responsibly maybe we shouldn't use them at all
Why would this be any different to using CGI to create effects that aren't there? Or makeup to make actors appear younger, or CGI effects to do the same thing?
Movies are fake. And we don't mind that, as long as the stories and the people in them are real.
You're right. There are limitless potential uses for AI that would benefit humanity. I should have said there's no valid use for AI that would profit its developers enough for them to pursue.
Yeah, it's a frustrating Thing, where new science can be applied to lots of specific niche uses... but if you want it to be commercially viable, it has to also be used for a bunch of stupid stuff that it doesn't really benefit at all.
I don't understand the uproar. We have computer graphics enhancements in movies. Bands use autotune and other manipulation of music. AI is just like any other tool used to enhance a product. The question is of course where you draw the line. What is too much AI?
Indeed! I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship between artificial and non-artificial intelligence. We entered an era there the mind can finally extend there and back. We humans shouldn’t be so fckin proud of ourselves all the time. We are also only a part of a greater intelligence.
Non-Hungarians would never know there was any enhancement. Most Hungarians, I suspect, would appreciate the effort made to nail the accent. The technology in this case is called “A.I.,” which scares people. But it’s really just another special effect, like countless others used in most films.
AI generated content needs to have a watermark, notification hard-coded into it. We have moved into a post-reality world, and that's dangerous for everyone.
There are also ethical issues about how the AI was trained and credit for those whose content was used for development.
I think it's a tool that we need to find a way to ethically use because it's not going to disappear, and the more refined and advanced it gets, the more attractive it will become to creators to use.
If the samples it learns from can be curated and the original artists compensated, it's OK IMO
meh.... what would have been better would be to have the actors voiceover their own video over and over until they got it right... that's part of their job. I don't want AI in ANY art I consume.
or depending on how much Hungarian is in the film... perhaps they should have hired Hungarian actors, or at least actors who actually already spoke it.
Scrolling down here I have only one thing to add: those who don’t want to watch this film bc of AI issues, well, you’ll regret is. Of not in this life, in the next one. Peace 🤷🏽♀️
In this case... hrm. Like, the actors did the work. They were paid. It's like adding VFX in post, or cleaning up visuals, in my uneducated opinion.
Personally, I wouldn't hold "used AI" against this one, but it's a fine line.
💯. At some point the outraged will calm down and move on, just like no one feels the need to disclose that they used Nuke to fix things in post, or that alien spaceship sounds are not true recordings of actual alien spaceships.
The Brutalist is just too relevant, there must be something to pull it down, right?
As a Hungarian, the message of the movie is more important to me than the fact they used AI to make a non-Hungarian speaker sound more authentic. Not good enough? The average English-speaker won't care. Use subtitles
I can understand using a software for a screenplay, to help write dialogue in a particular accent or dialect. Altering their voices after it's filmed does change their performance some, just like when they used to without AI or just dub someone. Maybe they wanted to avoid other types of backlash.
I'm fucking pissed I just found out that Bluesky has caved in now that they have become so big. And started to follow META and X censorship on dissent against Donald Trump. No fucking surprise a capitalist Americans start up makes some money gets big real quickly. And immediately throws morals away
Looks like BlueSky is following X & META route now that they are getting so big. A post referencing what the world did to Hitler after he tried his blitzkrieg, and saying they would do the same to Trump if he did the same. Was immediately blocked. Don't think Bluesky is not X or META. Be safe.
Used to be that film was enhanced with painting colour onto black & white film, which in some cases looked terrible, then it became the norm 'til they made colour film available, and even then they still colour-corrected it to look "more real" than it turned out...
Hard for me to respond as I found the film contrived and unwieldy and lead performance although talented, one note. I found it brutal to watch - as a nominator for SAG awards, I had a digital access and found myself skipping ahead. I find it interesting this AI thing coming up as I had no idea.
AI in it's current form exists as a tool for mass theft of creative works and intellectual property. Until that changes, I'm not supporting a damn thing that uses it.
I sort of see AI as similar to autotune. It can be used as a tool to be incorporated into a piece of art, but if used as a crutch can also devalue art or make it worse. It depends how it's used. Then again it's early in AI development, so my opinion could change later on.
with everything Trump has unleashed in his first week as president, are you still clinging to the dream and promises of America? Or has it finally hit you that those ideals are being dismantled right before our eyes?
All AI was trained unethically and everybody knows this. It is an attack on creatives. There were strikes about this. If he still doesn’t get the message and wants to use AI, he has no justification with which to get mad against people who criticize his use of AI.
At the very least, there needs to be transparency about AI use. In the dramatic film world, AI can replace film workers. In the documentary world, AI obliterates truth. For us doc filmmakers, the Archival Producers Alliance is taking the lead.
Hmm. Maybe best compared to other, long established practices [?] Like, when an unnamed, even un-credited, singer voices the songs for an actor (which I understand happened in My Fair Lady, for one. ) The slippery slope is always a fascinating place to try to keep your balance.
This is where the conversations become very meaningful and deep.
A LOT of thought needs to be taken into account, as well as intelligence, in order to discuss this topic.
Great good luck to the people on whom this burden lands.
There is so much polished on film these days that makes the actors look and sound better, that could not really matter. In Star Wars we head people on stage already dead and gone. If it makes it better, why not.
I’ve read (what I think is) the context… and I’m fine with it.
Seems (see above caveat) to be limited to nuance in Hungarian dialect of the yanks and the limeys. Not (caveat again) the creation of script, replacing actors /voice-actors etc.
In the context of the article, I'm not sure I can say it was a bad thing. Consider Sean Connery in The Hunt For Red October and imagine if AI could be used to the fucking Russian captain doesn't sound so...Scottish.
Maybe there are use-cases where this makes the acting better.
You can also just:
1. Hire people who can sound the way you want
2. Use a language/accent coach properly
3. Fix the worst issues with post-filming dubbing with the actor
I still think it's gross. Let the actors act, it's what makes movies feel like movies is when they're allowed to do their performances purely without alterations. Who cares if an accent is slightly off? AI shouldn't be used at all in film making
In this case it is a non issue. The actors learned the accent. The film was produced with this cast in mind. Names draw viewers, draw money, draw investors. It is what it is. Now AI was used to enhance the accents. That's it. This is not any more or less ethical than any green screen CGI. Non issue.
Generally, a job AI does is something an actual person could have done in turn. Someone skilled very likely could have done the job here, and it's admitted in the article AI was used to cut costs on this.
Companies have been cutting jobs in favor of generative AI technology to cut back on costs.
I don't think some random person typing a prompt to have an image spat out from a huge uncredited database, built by nameless programmers, qualifies the typer of the prompt to being an artist.
AI has no place in art. It's worse than lazy, its greedy. Its sole purpose is to devalue the skills of artists.
If it were being used ethically as a tool, as a means to shorten the time it takes to create, then it might hold value, but that's not what's being done.
is just like when photography entered the art scene, but it's not the same.
Photographers weren't stealing other artists' pieces. Photographers still had to learn what made something artful, and why it mattered. Yes, it "stole" jobs, that's unfortunately part of progress - but it didn't steal >>>
Sounds reasonable to me. Low-budget productions have always used unusual methods to achieve the desired results. Is it really any different that re-mixing the sound or digitally adjusting picture quality? People have such a knee-jerk reaction to the letters A and I.
Without knowing more, sure whatever. Not the choice I would have gone for but he's the director.
If he'd just used a "proprietary algorithm" to do largely the same thing people would have just considered it normal part of the post-production process.
I don't think actors are paid by the hour, so it would appear to me that the use of AI for language and dialects is a win-win. They would never have to learn and perform a script in a foreign language again. Let AI do the work. You'll never offend the audience with bad language or accent again!
Don't know enough about it to know if the AI took someone's job or not? Would human sound editing even be used for something like this? They could have just gone the Chernobyl route and ignore it, keeping what they could actor training, or not even bothering with an accent.
I wa just in the local Library, reading Questlove’s History of Hip Hop. I read the first 150 pages and then peeked at the afterword, written from 2073.
In it he is pro-AI. I got up from my chair and returned the book to the shelf.
I hate AI since I was raised on fearing SkyNet. But sadly I don't see it going anywhere. But AI needs to be used as a tool FOR Artists, not a REPLACEMENT for Artists. that's what pisses me off. The only job that should be being replaced with AI is CEO's
Actors need to start adding clauses to their contracts prohibiting this kind of bullshit and requiring props sets and music to be created by fairly paid actual human artists
AI should really be called HR "Human Replacement".
Anyone who has a job training AI is basically training their replacement.
Corporations won't be happy until we are all dead or dying, leaving only the wealthy to uphold the positive facade of greedy capitalism.
Yes I think so, too. Just like polishing a singer's voice for a record. If it would somehow translate his English to Hungarian I would be totally against it, but to slightly change certain vovels is not a huge deal
Nope. If AI infects the arts, we might as well cancel awards season. Soon enough, no one will be doing a job worth commending, and awards won't be truly earned. Digital enhancements are lies, period. Not the biggest problem in the world right now, but a problem nonetheless.
We vote everyday with our internet currency and our time. You can use AI, but many people will not want to watch it because of that. I'm one of them. I'm not a director- they can do whatever they want, but people aren't obligated to watch it.
No biggie. Not much different than makeup, wigs, prosthetics, auto tune, song voice dubbing, green screens, sound editing or anything else to tell a story. As long as they don’t get undeserved awards for their accents… Movies are magic, smoke and mirrors.
They could have hired Hungarian actors if the dialogue needed to be that perfect and hired an actual artist for the imagery (or just used public domain architectural sketches). From what I can tell, the main use of AI was to ensure US cultural dominance in a film about Hungarians.
And apparently instead of having that coach on set more or sending the actors to them more and thus paying them more so they could do their job properly (or just getting actors who don’t need a coach), they did this
I think using AI to give actors an accent befitting a native speaker they are playing is akin to using stunt doubles. It's perfectly fine to do of it happens with the actor's consent.
I say this as a German who suffered through a lot of "good enough" accents.
My gut take is that AI is just another tool. The argument that AI is doing art that the artists should be doing themselves doesn't track unless you're also arguing against other tools like CGI costumes, drum machines, and music synthesizers. And maybe cameras and record players and movies. /1
There's a separate issue about whether training machine learning on other people's content is an intellectual property violation. For now, I'll leave that to the lawyers. But the artistic integrity argument seems like special pleading. /X
Personally, I prefer to hear it the way it comes out. Whether they nail it, or muff it, or any point in between, that's what I want. It's a part of the performance and I don't want it separated from the rest of the performance.
Failing that, the Blender thing sounds like a better option.
Comments
But as an audience... I really want to hear how bad his real accent was!
I can't think of any movie that was actually ruined by an actor having a sucky accent.
Raises a Spockian eyebrow.
Beautiful and brutal things can be done with tools.
The problem when they don't even try hide it, but that is there business scheme like for some internet "ai artists".
I'm glad this isn't causing hurt to the Hungarian audience though, maybe I was overreacting a little since dialogue coaching is already a thing.
And these people might search for hungarian architects who inspired this made up Tóth László :)
No one except hungarians could tell if the accent of Brody was off. But for us it would have made the movie unenjoyable. I have no problem with "autotuning" it a little. %
Never.
Rendering creative people unemployed is a valid use?
Replacing factual information with digital hallucinations is a valid use?
Stealing traffic from websites is a valid use?
No. There is no valid use for generative AI, period.
(1) steal information or creative works from human creators;
(2) displace human creators, making it impossible for them to earn a living; or
(3) create content with total disregard for actual fact, according to the desires of the operators.
That ONE function good enuff for you, or do you need more?
A thinking robot friend is AI.
A non-heuristic algorithm that is programmed by thousands of underpaid software designers is not AI. It is an example of how people will ignore any crime if it benefits them personally.
this is in a category by itself. Definitely not interested. I like actors who can act- good or bad- on their own.
Is digital post production wrong? Is CGI wrong? Artificial lighting?
Respeecher was developed by a group who wanted to counter text-to-speech, and other systems.
Musical artists are autotuned for live performances as well as for recordings.
The use of AI here seems pretty simple and purposeful, not much new ground broken.
What is in place to make sure the data is accurate and not corrupted by -I dunno - some bat shit crazy mother fluffing butt hole?
When people consider the problems of AI, they are talking about generative AI, not older and more common forms like finding a route to your destination.
Movies are fake. And we don't mind that, as long as the stories and the people in them are real.
If the actors couldn't do it, then they couldn't do it, you don't fake it as if they could.
There are also ethical issues about how the AI was trained and credit for those whose content was used for development.
If the samples it learns from can be curated and the original artists compensated, it's OK IMO
This didn’t replace artists nor did it steal an artists likeness.
I don’t see the harm in it.
Personally, I wouldn't hold "used AI" against this one, but it's a fine line.
As a Hungarian, the message of the movie is more important to me than the fact they used AI to make a non-Hungarian speaker sound more authentic. Not good enough? The average English-speaker won't care. Use subtitles
There were better ways to achieve the desired outcome.
I'm my dark little soul, I hope the pronunciation is now hilariously incorrect.
and Sam Altman, etc.
The actor's performances should stand on their own merits. It diminishes them and their performances.
I hear it's a pretty good film, but this gives it a black eye.
A LOT of thought needs to be taken into account, as well as intelligence, in order to discuss this topic.
Great good luck to the people on whom this burden lands.
Seems (see above caveat) to be limited to nuance in Hungarian dialect of the yanks and the limeys. Not (caveat again) the creation of script, replacing actors /voice-actors etc.
Maybe there are use-cases where this makes the acting better.
1. Hire people who can sound the way you want
2. Use a language/accent coach properly
3. Fix the worst issues with post-filming dubbing with the actor
AI takes these jobs & the human experience/contribution out of it. It’s obscene.
Companies have been cutting jobs in favor of generative AI technology to cut back on costs.
A lot of generative AI technology is also based off of of countless pieces of art an actual human put work into, uncredited and uncompensated.
1.) Did you build the coding that went into making the generative AI program?
2.) Did you personally curate the data it uses?
3.) Are you the only one using it?
If you put that much work into it, I can see an argument that it's art
If it were being used ethically as a tool, as a means to shorten the time it takes to create, then it might hold value, but that's not what's being done.
Some might argue that this >>>
Photographers weren't stealing other artists' pieces. Photographers still had to learn what made something artful, and why it mattered. Yes, it "stole" jobs, that's unfortunately part of progress - but it didn't steal >>>
Similarities exist, but the pervasive difference is greed, lack of respect, and lack of humanity.
AI doesn't make choices, it vomits out algorithmic summations of what >>>
It's all about taking ownership from artists so they don't have to be compensated. It's about devaluing the human element.
If he'd just used a "proprietary algorithm" to do largely the same thing people would have just considered it normal part of the post-production process.
In it he is pro-AI. I got up from my chair and returned the book to the shelf.
Anyone who has a job training AI is basically training their replacement.
Corporations won't be happy until we are all dead or dying, leaving only the wealthy to uphold the positive facade of greedy capitalism.
I say this as a German who suffered through a lot of "good enough" accents.
And it should make the work disqualifying for awards.
I know how it works and I don't trust it at all.
But it can't be stopped. That horse left the barn, jumped the fence, and went FTL a long time ago.
I’ll boycott any ‘artist’ that uses it.
Any excuse to show Ms Pickford
Failing that, the Blender thing sounds like a better option.