the thing with UnitedHealth is that you have to go pretty damn far up the financial hierarchy of this country before you find someone who has not been screwed by health insurance or had a close friend or family member who was
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I really don’t think Biden got enough credit for the PACT Act—I’ve been able to get into the VA system for my healthcare and don’t have to worry about how much more crappy my employers insurance gets
My parents are comfortably upper middle class and our healthcare system is what ultimately made them switch from being “moderate Republicans” to “vote blue no matter who Democrats”. They realized if it’s shit for them, it’s apocalyptic for everyone else. Shit systems radicalize would-be allies.
The chart I keep sharing.
In a world with billionaires, functionally, broke to 500 million is the same bracket.
Hell, this is outdated and being a billionaire is questionable now that there are trillionaries (old enough to remember when "trillionaire" would have sounded silly).
I don't disagree, but the question was, after all, why a billionaire would want health insurance in our system, and it's certainly not due to a lack of ability to pay.
think about where you live and then count the number of hospitals, clinics, pharmacies, radiology, Cat scans, MRI's, labs, etc in your zip code then say hmmmmm
you have no fucking idea what you are talking about. Insurance doesn't treat or cure people it pays the providers that are supposed to. when they don't pay it's the providers that are out the money ultimately and the debt insureds have is because providers charge absurd fees and costs. get educated
Worked at an insurance brokerage around the turn of the century. The austerity plans employers offer were already what they could get away with. The need to profit has wormed its way up through to the exec plans. Gotta be C-suite rich not to feel it now.
United Healthcare Medicare Advantage today just denied my medication that keeps me alive . It's the only medication that works for me. I was paying cash, but my husband lost his job, and I can't afford it anymore. The doctor gave me samples for 2 weeks.
If your doctor has already done an exception request, appeal, appeal, appeal. If they deny take it to the next level of appeals, you have rights and they are required to tell you how to do this. If you need help ask your local SHIP (https://shiphelp.org - free medicare counseling) for assistance.
Yeah, I imagine that "white guy who has access to a gun and has had a bad experience with health insurance" applies to quite a large percentage of the US
What adds to the public's frustration and cynicism is that New York City averages 30 murders a month and no one has ever seen a manhunt on this scale for the killers, and we all know why. The message to the rest of us is that only elites matter and the peasants can F.O.A.D.
Experiencing it right now. Medication challenged, mri to diagnose - challenged, any recommended procedure challenged. All taking weeks at a time. Makes you feel you are doing something wrong. It’s uneasy. And I pay a lot for this insurance
I have stacks and stacks of healthcare bills right now. Myself, my wife, and my youngest daughter. Currently not being paid because of the healthcare company that deliberately ran out my benefits before they screwed me out of my job. Not that I’m keeping score.
yeah my parents do quite well for themselves - before my dad got ocular melanoma they were probably top 2% income. recently his insurance refused to pay for his hospital stay+surgery as part of a treatment plan, which ended up delaying things 6 months. now he has additional lesions in his brain stem
even worse is my parents both work in the pharmaceutical industry, and have worked most of their lives developing cancer treatments, my dad especially. his work may have saved countless lives and still could as others build on it. but the system will let him die because of greed
My wife can barely walk, only with the aid of a walker and VERY short distances. Two surgeons said they can fix the issue, and the insurance company said, "walking is not medially necessary" and denied the claim. After multiple appeals, nothing, so she uses her walker and cries sometimes.
I had to fight for a year to get my son's autism evaluation covered.
I had to get my son an autism evaluation because otherwise his school wouldn't accommodate his need to sometimes just sit quietly by himself and recover.
I've decided that if I get cancer that I'm going to let it ride. I'm not destroying my wife's ability to retire (already shaky) for just a few more years.
If they catch the guy, I imagine the first question from the defence to any prospective juror is “have you ever had a claim denied by a health insurance company?” Anybody who says “yes” is challenged.
Think they can get 12 jurors who all say “no”? If they have a limit on challenges, I would say no.
I would try so hard to be selected and I’d deliberate for 1 second to reach not guilty. This is why we have juries. The whole machine can tie itself in knots getting this guy but his peers know that this is actually justice served. If you don’t like it fix this fucked up system!
Someone I know from high school married rich—not billionaire rich, but (guesstimate) 20-50 million range—and one of her kids has a chronic condition that comes with occasional long hospital stays.
I discovered that the cash cost for pediatric PT was $100 compared to $300 aka trash insurance. I had to find an academic center as the PT places the insurance covered were shady places.
The fact that the insurance industry was able to collectively decide “People are desperate enough for protection against catastrophe that we can charge exorbitantly for that and pretty much stop paying for the little stuff” and we all just let it happen is sad.
With two young kids and being fortunate enough to be able to afford it, I have an obscene amount taken out of each paycheck (in addition to my employer’s substantial contribution) just to get the same coverage that used to be fairly standard - like, having sick visits covered and no $5k deductible.
I had UnitedHealth during pregnancy. Bastards attempted to deny my claim for maternity care 4 months into pregnancy. Had to file an appeal to get them cover it.
I have a friend who had been the general counsel for an insurance company. He called me from the chemo infusion center while getting chemo for his cancer in tears because he can could not navigate the insurance roadblocks. “If I can’t do it how do other people?” he wailed.
Imagine doing that many people harm for that long and thinking you can just bebop down the street without a care in the world. The arrogance of that. Greed is a powerful thing but when entire corporate organization is focused on greed and operates that we have a problem, a societal problem.
People wonder why health care costs in America are so high. The CEO of United Healthcare made 10M+/yr. It’s time to reign in these exorbitant compensation packages
What’s wild is he was one of the lowest paid CEOs in healthcare. Bottom of the list for comp packages really (though i have seen his total comp quoted closer to 24 MM other places).
If you have government insurance or private insurance through your job you've definitely been screwed at some point. Every millionaire I know (quite a few) has bespoke insurance. To be fair, some of them get that provided through their job while the lower ranks get the bad insurance.
The more work I have to put in to find some inkling of a thing that humanizes someone who was killed the harder it is for me to feel bad about what happened.
Also by now even normies generally know other nations have free healthcare. Even if they believe negative propaganda about how bad they are, it's still free
I tell my conservative parents that while other countries’ universal healthcare might screw them over in terms of quality of care (which is still comparable or better than here), they at least don’t have to worry about getting hit with a life ending bill after! They shut up after that.
Oh yeah. I live in Pittsburgh, which is one of America’s health care hubs, and still, good luck seeing any kind of specialist in the next three months for anything.
Yes! I had one doctor tell me to see a neurologist & get an MRI. Wait time for an appointment with the neurologist? Four months. Good thing it's just for my brain--that's not important, right?
I'm very grateful I live in Canada. Although our system isn't perfect, it's fair. My husbands two organ transplants cost zero. We do pay more taxes than the USA, but at least we aren't in debt regarding our health care.
It's not bad here in Canada. Yes, we do have a Doctor shortage, and at times, longer waits for surgeries. My family and friends have been lucky to have received wonderful and speedy care regarding organ transplant , broken arm, hip replacements, cancer treatment and dialysis. All covered. No cost.
True. And the way this murder has been celebrated suggest that there will be more. Dunno why it would be limited to health ins. CEOs, either. Bankers? Politicians?
I wish NYPD would say, “Darn, he got away. Better luck next time.” Whoever finds and prosecutes the gunman will be loved as much as Brian Thompson. What’s the motivation here?
Exactly. I was at a holiday lunch yesterday - professional gathering, and at our table every person was probably top 10% income-wise, with four folks certainly in the 1%. People started joking about the killing, one of the 1% guys told a UHC horror story, everyone was like "yep, he deserved it"
Therapy has taken 6 months and I have had active attempts since that time. I hate insurance companies with a passion and I am unashamed to say I am celebrating his death for the thousands of people like me he must have inevitably screwed over.
Used to chat in the sauna at my gym w one of the top finance guys of my local health globule. EVEN HE was fixing to get screwed by the bean counters, though his knowledge of billing codes and such saved him. BUT THEY TRIED!
My 78yo dad was screwed by UnitedHealthcare last year when he was sent home 2 days after spinal surgery because they wouldn’t cover sending him to a rehab center after surgeon & rehab team said it was best for him to build up strength in his legs.
Maybe their Medicare advantage program is different. I’ve been with them for years. Low monthly premiums and good coverage. I was in the hospital for 4 days last year and they covered all but $1,000.
I feel like A LOT of people in this country could get on the same page if they realize just how many of them have been screwed over by health insurance companies. It might lead to real class solidarity. There's a possibility, anyway.
I recommend taking any strong feeling you have about the beautiful karmic retribution of the UHC asshole (both pro and con!) and blame a republican for preventing Medicare for all.
I’m of the opinion that almost no politicians from either side want to change the healthcare system. I would opt out and take my chances at this point, except Obama made insurance mandatory! Why would I want to give my entire net worth to heath care industry? I’d rather be dead and let my kids have
It’s pure evil and this lies at Congress’s feet just like gun violence ! IT CAN ALL BE STOPPED TODAY !
Except they don’t want that , they want the money , and here we are !
And if you or a loved one lives with a chronic condition, there's a constant level of stress in your lives related to health care-sometimes lower, sometimes very high.
It's the background noise to your entire life.
I definitely know folks with like 8-figure networths who have active horror stories (when insurance says you have to pay out of pocket for a cancer med that costs 100k per dose, even those folks have a problem)
I have a life-threatening food allergy & travel a fair amount*. In Europe, I don't worry that a trip to the hospital will bankrupt me. In the US, it's a valid fear.
*Of course, I still take precautions - I don't like ruining my vacations!
Absolutely true. It’s basically impossible to get chronic stuff (where the diagnosis doesn’t write itself) taken seriously unless you have enough money in your bank account to buy a small country.
One thing I realised coming from the UK is also the constant level of background stress and anxiety it causes for even well-off people.
Americans constantly talking about their deductibles and whether they should go for dental or risk it and they can’t quit their job bc it’s tied to the insurance…
I have to wonder how the election would have played out had this killing happened mid-October, then all the "hey, I know murder is wrong, but. . ." stories flooded social media at THAT time.
It isn’t that the very rich haven’t been denied care by their insurers. It’s that they can afford to pay for it anyway. Most of us cannot. So we do without or incur crippling debt, and they do not.
Many people have said something similar, but this event really puts into focus why the Democrats lost the election. There are a lot of frustrations with the status quo at the moment and “everything is fine” was not the political message many people were looking for.
And even if we got an FDR level of president elected (who scooped up all the leftists and failed to deliver,) no president has ever fought the SC or the ruling class to get healthcare for all passed. The last potus to defy the system via failure & giving up invading Cuba was kilt.
I know one guy who doesn't feel overwhelmed by medical costs, because he has like 32 million dollars and doesn't use credit so he doesn't care if unpaid medical debt hurts his score.
I'm a lil autistic so idk if my point is clear but I'm trying to say not even he is comfortable with the cost of medical care. He's just so rich that I've seen him strongarm a bill down from 30k to 8k because collections doesn't scare him at all
I was able to negotiate a medi al bill with a clinic by telling them I was ok with it going to collections after being told there was no way to reduce the balance, this after being misinformed about the price. I can negotiate with a third party.i ain't rich either.
Yeah they're often willing to negotiate the price, sometimes even just asking for an itemized bill makes them magically reduce. The whole deal is corrupt as hell
That’s because by the time it gets to collections, the agency bought the debt for 1 or 2 cents to the dollar, so anything they get back is profit for them. They’ll let you pay $5 a week for the rest of your life.
Oh you mean the people in congress who wright the rules. The ones who take taxes from people who can't afford insurance to get probably the best insurance coverage possible.
Reminds me of the Mean Girls scene where Tina Fey asks, "Who here has been personally victimized by Regina George?" and every single person raises their hand.
Reminds me of John Wick. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that UnitedHeathcare denied coverage to the shooter’s bestest boy just because he’s a good boy. Nothing to lose now.
Since Regan, the GOP has propagandized the American people into thinking private industry does everything better than the government, so a substantial fraction of people are convinced government insurance would be worse than what they have now.
This is one of the things that I find really striking--being screwed over by an insurance company (or more than 1!) is such a universal experience. We all knew why the thing happened, instantly.
Even people who haven't been screwed over are aware that they're spending thousands per year to get insurance, and are still paying out of pocket for visits, tests, and prescriptions.
My insurance has never let me down, and I'm still cheering. Health insurance is a scam.
Pointing out to Americans that they pay 20% more in taxes than someone in the UK who has access to universal Healthcare and then they pay the same again in private out of pocket costs is always interesting.
Everyone in Australia pays 1.5% tax to pay for Medicare,that covers a percentage of care. Right now a doctors appointment cost $75 - $95 and Medicare gives you a rebate starting at $40 and upwards depending on what your limit is. And public hospitals are few and scripts on the one are capped at $35
The thing about medical debt is that real serious care can easily hit 500k or a million dollars. the top 1% requires a net worth of 10 million, and even that can be wiped out by an uncovered cancer treatment very easily. The numbers are so absurd it's funny money.
I’m a lawyer, and while I’m not in the healthcare industry, a lot of my practice is healthcare compliance. I do some state insurance compliance work, too. It’s really hard for me to navigate this stuff in my personal life, and I’m probably better equipped to do so than 99%+ of the population.
Someone told me recently that he showed a copy of the terms of the same company that provides my health insurance to a health insurance adjuster family member and she couldn't reliably make sense of it. My impression is that there's actually nobody who understands how some of these should work.
Micah we were on a team at UHC taking phone calls exclusively for one specific tech company because UHC fucked up one of their execs so bad that it was the only way to keep the contract
it uhhh did not go great even with that kind of focus
The real fucker is these prices are set by people who know that no one will pay them because the only actual way to access care is through an insurance company that pays between a 10th or even a 100th of the quote. if insurance denies your claim they don't charge you their discounted rate though...
The difference of cost between insured and uninsured patients is probably closer to 30-50, not 90% or 99%, but ... yeah - hospital executives are no saint
Depends if you go by the first price or final price. I've absolutely had claims where it's like "billed 2000, insurance paid 200, you owe 40" and it's like "wonder where that 1760 dollars went if they are profitable at 240". 2000 is absolutely what my first bill would be without insurance.
The question is how much the visit is invoiced (*total*) by the provider's office for insured patients vs uninsured patients.
In your example, $350 when uninsured, $25 copay + $225 charged to insurer.
$350 vs $250.
In this example, the discount is nearly 29%
My meds are pretty much all in the $5-10/month range at the major pharma chains (incl CVS, Walmart, etc.)
But they're all old boring drugs. My wife's drugs are split between the ones with boring prices and annoying prices.
My insurance got wrongly inactivated and the amount my pharmacy bills my insurance is 4% of what they wanted to charge me for some fairly common meds. Got a bill for a lab test last month, the “discount” was over 90% on that as well. It’s not always that much, but it for sure is sometimes.
This is one of the most maddening aspects of insurance in America. It’s a tangled mess that, at this point, would be so difficult to unravel I don’t even know where to start. It’s a legal scam IMHO.
1) Open medicare enrollment to everyone
2) Require all providers to accept medicare payments (which could actually increase as the pool grows much larger than the mostly-just-sick-and-old people who are in that pool now)
US hospital accounting and pricing don't resemble anything like normal sane cost accounting practices.
The only thinks like them are Hollywood accounting, Record Label accounting, and mafia-run business accounting,
and even the latter's less crazy because they'll shoot you if you're too far off.
What makes it sadder is that there’s literally no functional reason for the insurance industry to exist. Like, there’s zero actual utility they bring to anything outside of enforcing a make belief barter system of “subscription medical care.”
Meanwhile most other countries have long understood the benefits to human wellbeing from a public healthcare system. I grew up in Ukraine, where by most standards our quality of life is behind most western world, but I could break an arm without going into default.
We declared bankruptcy over medical bills in 2008. Not one fucking credit card.
1000s in medical debt. I still had glibitarians lecturing me about YOU MUST PAY THE DEBT YOU WILLINGLY SIGNED FOR and I really wanted to meet some of them IRL for an object lesson in unanticipated hospital visits.
Yeah, it's amazing when you discover the "In-Network Hospital"'s anesthesiologists and a few other specialists are ALL out-of-network, and you usually learn this after the fact.
Best thing my old company's insurance did was made the out-of-pocket max per-person instead of per-family.
Some asshole tried that on me and I was like, look, what would you do as a single mother to a disabled child? Starve him? Not get him care? I started sobbing and he apologized and told me to keep my money for bills but was sorry, the demands would continue. 🤷♀️
Was just chatting with a colleague in tech about this.
It’s actually even more stark than just being able to afford a surprise $100k: To get truly good healthcare in the US, you have to be a major annual donor. Then you don’t wait, you get the head of surgery’s direct cell.
Or, in the right circles. I was dx'd with optic neuritis (often the presenting symptom of MS) while studying neuro in grad school. Had an appointment for an MRI within days. Yep, MS.
These days, not so much. I can't get an appointment with a neurologist for 6+ months, unless I drive 3+ hours.
This was actually the start of my conversation with my colleague. We reflected on the fact that people will say “At least in the US if you can pay you can get in faster.” We’re both mostly doing pretty well money-wise, and that’s entirely untrue for us. It’s only for a very small number of people.
I racked up over 100k on psychiatric and physical care for my disabled son, before he turned 18. I declared bankruptcy. I was basically destitute on paper and didn't own anything so it was not a huge deal. It might have hurt the interest rate we got on a house 6.5 years later.
Sometimes, it isn't a matter of out of pocket. They change treatment plans. Why did my doctor look like he was eating shit when changing checkup schedule even though I was not stable on the meds? It went badly.
I worked at RadioShack early aughts. Yes, I am old. But while I was there, one of the guys I worked with was formerly well into the 1%. He was working a minimum wage job despite having had a net worth well north of 10 million in the late 90s. Surviving cancer wiped him out financially.
Kinda funny that there’s stuff even ‘fuck you’ rich people can commiserate with because you have to be ‘can buy countries’ levels of rich to not ever get fucked by healthcare insurance
I needed brain surgery for a brain tumor a few yrs ago. Took me 6 months and countless hours fighting insurance to the point where my work was kind enough to give me paid time off just to deal with getting my insurance to approve the surgery. I was approved 3 days before my surgery date.
this was actually when I turned entirely against Biden, after all that shit he dared to campaign against M4A using a cheat sheet of insurance company talking points, absolutely depraved behavior
Even if it hasn’t happened to you, there’s the constant awareness that enormous medical debt could strike at any moment. Most of us live one bad diagnosis from bankruptcy/homelessness.
We have the largest class of poor people in America now than since the depression and that's per capita. In sheer numbers, America has the most poor people in its history thanks to the Morgan's, Rockefeller's, and the rest of big business that have been systematically squeezing people.
CEO assassinations are the next sign that MAGA is turning the US into a second-world country. Italy, Eastern Europe, Colombia, Peru, Ecuador - this kind of thing happens in such countries…
All parties have a hand in the current state of healthcare. You can’t seriously blame this on MAGA who was in power for 4 total years out of the last 4 decades where this shit system has taken root.
And no, the Democrats have been trying to nationalize healthcare for 30 years, since Clinton. Obama’s ACA was a great first step, but he was held back by GOP blockades in Senate and House.
MAGA is the latest evolution of GOP’s nonsensical “trickle down economics” born under Reagan and ingrained into society by Gingrich and his Tea Party. GOP created privatization of health insurance. Shooting healthcare CEOs is MAGA’s innovation.
MAGA is just the natural evolution of the mindless GOP that started with Reagan. Average citizens were first irrelevant, then used, now afraid and withdrawn from society. It’s an intentional progression.
And it’s so expensive just for the premiums. My husband, the primary earner, was laid off out of the blue yesterday. We’re now looking at paying the whole $2500 monthly premium for COBRA starting next month. $30,000 a year in premiums for my family just to have insurance.
I'm SO SORRY. I think health insurance/healthcare in this country is downright evil. I had to take on a part-time job to make ends meet because my new job's insurance premiums were triple what I had to pay at my last job.
I work in insurance (not health insurance though because I do have a soul) and I think that the only people who don't get screwed by insurance are the ones rich enough to self-insure on purpose & without worry.
(As opposed to the ones self-insuring because premiums are waaaaay too expensive)
Said this earlier, even the truly rich have seen their employees and family members screwed over, even if provided the best coverage. So even many of them get it.
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In a world with billionaires, functionally, broke to 500 million is the same bracket.
Hell, this is outdated and being a billionaire is questionable now that there are trillionaries (old enough to remember when "trillionaire" would have sounded silly).
I'm sorry and livid.
More security for the elites.
Keep denying the claims.
I had to get my son an autism evaluation because otherwise his school wouldn't accommodate his need to sometimes just sit quietly by himself and recover.
We are so fucked.
Think they can get 12 jurors who all say “no”? If they have a limit on challenges, I would say no.
Thanks for all the likes, anyway. 😅
She hates insurance. With a passion.
Rarely is the scale so weighted
Well not the ultra wealthy anyway.
I am hard pressed to say that there won’t be many, many more.
No one grieves when a mob boss gets hit.
Therapy has taken 6 months and I have had active attempts since that time. I hate insurance companies with a passion and I am unashamed to say I am celebrating his death for the thousands of people like me he must have inevitably screwed over.
Made a mint.
🇮🇪🇪🇺
Except they don’t want that , they want the money , and here we are !
It's the background noise to your entire life.
It was kinda bound to happened
And I'm so glad for Polish healthcare system
*Of course, I still take precautions - I don't like ruining my vacations!
Americans constantly talking about their deductibles and whether they should go for dental or risk it and they can’t quit their job bc it’s tied to the insurance…
My insurance has never let me down, and I'm still cheering. Health insurance is a scam.
it uhhh did not go great even with that kind of focus
you gotta be REALLY rich for “surprise you have to pay a hundred thousand dollars” not to screw you over
Same with visits. Insured, 25 bucks. Uninsured, 350.
In your example, $350 when uninsured, $25 copay + $225 charged to insurer.
$350 vs $250.
In this example, the discount is nearly 29%
But they're all old boring drugs. My wife's drugs are split between the ones with boring prices and annoying prices.
Do check out GoodRX coupons and Mark Cuban's https://costplusdrugs.com, though.
2) Require all providers to accept medicare payments (which could actually increase as the pool grows much larger than the mostly-just-sick-and-old people who are in that pool now)
The only thinks like them are Hollywood accounting, Record Label accounting, and mafia-run business accounting,
and even the latter's less crazy because they'll shoot you if you're too far off.
I pay extra for critical care coverage if only so I have more ammo in my pocket should the worst happen.
1000s in medical debt. I still had glibitarians lecturing me about YOU MUST PAY THE DEBT YOU WILLINGLY SIGNED FOR and I really wanted to meet some of them IRL for an object lesson in unanticipated hospital visits.
Best thing my old company's insurance did was made the out-of-pocket max per-person instead of per-family.
It’s actually even more stark than just being able to afford a surprise $100k: To get truly good healthcare in the US, you have to be a major annual donor. Then you don’t wait, you get the head of surgery’s direct cell.
My colleague knows someone who has generational wealth and has this “subscription”, and the US healthcare system is great for them.
Thank you to the several folks who have mentioned it in the replies.
Also, I had never heard of it before, how do so many non-wealthy people know it exists?
These days, not so much. I can't get an appointment with a neurologist for 6+ months, unless I drive 3+ hours.
I’m glad you were in a situation to get that MRI appointment quickly!
It stuns me when people say, “Yeah, but in Canada and the UK people have to WAIT!” Like, have you ever tried to make an appointment in the US?!
1/2
However, people should know it's one way to address the issue. As fucked as that is.
2/3
IT WOULD BE, IF "SUSTAINABLE" DIDNT MEAN PROFITTING MILLIONS A YEAR
Get this shit government regulated
(As opposed to the ones self-insuring because premiums are waaaaay too expensive)