i mean I've only been told by all media and actual real life parents that babies will keep you up all night and children will make your deepest wish privacy to shower and then a nap, but it sure is a mystery why i wouldn't want to experience motherhood.
I know a ton of millennials who make the boundaries in their relationships with their parents because they grew up with a social-emotuonal education that their parents never had. They are the grown ups in the relationship, not the immature ones who need firm but supportive guidance.
What a trash article. Nothing about my dedication to important causes like bringing down beloved brands like Applebee’s and Budweiser. This writer doesn’t have a clue, I’m not bringing a child in to the world that might and subjecting them to Bourbon Street Steaks or Oreo Shakes.
I agree with your sentiment and this author seems like an ass from the excerpts I've seen, but something else is going on here. Even in wealthy countries that actually have decent welfare systems, cheap healthcare, and accessible child care, birth rates are dropping.
Something about post industrialization makes it difficult to maintain a population size organically. This will be a problem long term, but climate change and the spread of fascism are more immediate civilizational threats atm
"Why don't millennials want children?"
"My studio apartment is $1,500 a month."
"Are they afraid of their children cancelling them?"
"I'll make my final student loan payment on my death bed."
"is it a cultural thing?"
"My last ER visit overdrew my account by $500."
"I guess we'll never know."
You forgot to include at the end: ‘an unaffordable hellscape — brought upon the very generation that is now writing about why millennials are avoiding having children’ - the lack of self awareness is pretty remarkable from the older generations, eh?
"Not being abusive" is a pretty fucking low bar, actually. I'm quite confident I could avoid abusing a child. I'm less confident in my ability to keep one fed.
«There are few decisions more fraught for members of my generations — the cusp of millennial and Gen Z — than whether or not to become a parent.»
Listen, my life is not hard, but even I know that if the toughest choice in your life is whether or not to have kids, then it's a pretty sheltered one.
As a millennial who is about to have a child, my concerns lie more along the lines of 'gee I sure hope they get to grow up not in a fascist, nuclear-ravaged wasteland', but this writer is clearly more correct.
I was sure I didn't want to father children when I was 16, so around 2001. I'd read all the material I could find about climate change, and it convinced me that a) it was a real thing, and b) despite earnest calls to action, we were not going to do a goddamn thing about it.
Also, as always, it's probably important to note that the population of the U.S. is still increasing. I know it's hard to believe that given the breathy tone of all those population doom articles from the NYT, but it is. It's just slowed down how fast its growing.
The major change affecting fertility is the significant decline in teenage pregnancy after decades of public health efforts. This underlies conservatives problem. The only way to have more babies is to make it so girls and young women have no other choice.
Millennials are full blown adults at this point. For God's sake, can we stop getting raked over the coals for society's ills? I'm over here contributing to society with a full-time job and participating in multiple community groups. I'm busy. Leave me the fuck alone. ( 😠directed at the article)
The best part is that the author of this piece graduated college in 2019. It’s one thing when the older generations malign us, as they at least have the excuse of experience.
No, because all media is tailored to making sure that old people still think this is their world. Once you realize the median mass news consumer is 70, a lot of things begin to click into place.
Imposing a dystopic Robocop-like cyberpunk existence on someone just so I can be an overglorified slave owner over their autonomy for 18 years ain't for millennials like me.
The privileged author of this insipid piece of literary garbage is Michal Leibowitz. If you care to, you can tell her exactly why she's dumb and wrong directly through her stupid website.
My kids, both late Millennials, already took me to task when their older cousin had a kid out of marriage. (He does take care of his kid, no worries there.) I told them that it was their choice, not mine & I don’t badger them about their choice.
Coming from a conservative county surrounded by more liberal areas, it was hard not to take in "can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em" bumper stickers and similar bits of messaging. Guess it took root.
As ever, conservatives get what they want and it makes them unhappy.
Reports with kids is pissed you aren't as exhausted as he is.
Fixed it for them
Fuck the NYTimes for writting Millennials should stop eating avocado toast and why arent you having more kids in the same fucking serious tone. As if the reason for both isn't the same.
She just dismisses the most important reason out of hand "People aren’t having kids because it’s too expensive".
Her privilege shows for the remainder of very public, very NYTimes therapy session.
I’m 40 years old. I work at Taco Bell and I make about $1200 a month. I can barely afford to take care of myself and my dog let alone a whole human being.
All this hysterical chatter and nut-job theories about lack of native-born American's having kids (while there's a horrific attack on immigrants/immigration) and few mention fact that increased wealth & education directly correlates to less kids in nearly every study ever.
I bet millions of Americans are surprised that education allows people to understand biology and manage it.
Weird that critical thinkers don't lay around in their own waste while fucking the day away.
Biology.
Drivers versus passengers.
American confusion.
What's so mind-boggling is hard right in US (Cotton/Freedom Caucus) complain/warn repeatedly about US population trends while being harshly anti-immigration. It's so stupid and self-defeating. If they're really worried about population, immigration is simple, low-cost fix.
We try to create safe, positive learning environments as educators in schools. We face barriers to this thanks to the very poor parenting in the US right now and the how members of the community who know very little about schools want to tell those of us with training how we should do our jobs.
reading the rest of it it's basically: wow I was a self-absorbed piece of shit, what if my child is just like me? Let me write an essay which uses the pronoun "I" 49 times to dwell on me, I mean this
You know, a person who finds it a nearly impossible standard for parenthood includes things like sexually abusing the child is... not somebody I want to be a parent, ever. But it is sorta good that NYT's natalist mania is showing us what maniacs these peeps are. Country club fail.
That's a weird take for her to land on because that article is primarily about her having an eating disorder as a teenager - calling the ill, younger version of yourself "self-absorbed" is not a kind or compassionate take on the situation.
Worked at a law firm where the "Discovery" Partner used "I" 35 times to describe our Discovery team (8 paragraphs). Five other law firm Discovery Partners wrote similar pitches that used "I" a total of 10 times. Color-coding the pronouns enhanced the disparity. We lost business on that pitch.
I work in discovery in biglaw -- what is a discovery partner? Our litigation partners lead discovery but don't specialize in it; that's for staff attorneys. There are firms where partners focus exclusively on discovery and that's their main practice?
I worked at the same firm for ~30 yrs and they created a Discovery section ~20 yrs ago. Initially called ED3 (Data, Documents, Discovery), they had to change the name when the IP attorneys pointed out that ED3 was a software application.
Do the editors literally just call their friends from college and say like hey do you wanna write a column tomorrow, it doesn’t matter what it’s about, just riff on what we were all talking about at Bari Weiss’s book release party.
a few people argue that the worst part of this is just bad writing, and while that is possible, I did not read it uncharitably, I just highlighted what was written.. Reading otherwise is just imagining she means something different than what she plainly writes
If someone thinks you’re a good enough writer to be writing for the NYT Opinion page, you should be a good enough writer to clearly convey your meaning. That’s nonsense
EVEN IF it's bad writing — with "sometimes things like" intended to split lists of "acceptable" and "unacceptable" reasons for shunning parents — I'd say toxicity, "clashing" values, and feeling unsupported are quite valid reasons to distance from them too.
I'll give her the complement of assuming she is capable of accurately conveying her own thoughts on paper, rather than some different set of thoughts that some different person than her might have thought
they could resolve this by just changing parenting culture to get away from the whole "the children are the property of the parents" thing towards "the children are people with rights and protections"
a protected class of people, if you must have classes
Estranged-parent forums are full of 'missing reasons' when the parents whine. "All over some misunderstanding!/I don't know what I did/Some regrettable things were said, I can't remember."
Rarely do they just outright say "So you got raped under my care. And what, you're perfect??"
Oddly enough, my UCLA Trauma Psychiatry fellowship training and decades of practice convinced me that survivors ending contact with the parent(s) who destroyed their trust and *sexually abused them* is therapeutic, empowering, healthy, and decreases self-harm/suicide risk.
Did I miss an abuser memo?
Well, in this instance at least, I'm afraid it can't be both. She's either outted herself as a shitty person, or she wrote an incredibly shitty paragraph. (And I mean that it's construction is shitty, not necessarily just it's content. That's me being charitable)
As someone with a healthy relationship with both my parents, what the fuck are they talking about. I don't hold my parents accountable for my career???? I swear they create these writers in a troll factory, fine tuning exactly an article what will piss people off for clicks.
"experienced physical or sexual abuse" juxtaposed with "standards we ourselves would struggle to meet" really feels like the author telling on themselves
I'm getting strong "look, if we're *never* supposed to make women feel scared or uncomfortable, how exactly are young men supposed to hit on them?!" flashbacks
i would posit you aren't really providing your kid safety and love if you aren't taking their future mental health into account. ive also literally heard zero people say they felt entitled to their parents giving them a career. it's the companies we hate. what on earth is this
as a child of neglect the whole "i put a roof over your head!" bullshit is just used to exonerate parents of their guilt over how they treat their kid. LOOK HOW MUCH I DID FOR YOU yeah it doesn't really matter if you treat your kid like a slave
She says in the article that parenthood now looks like a "bad deal" because we no longer feel that kids have a reciprocal obligation to their parents for their raising us
I'm unfortunately in that club as well. The implication that cutting off family members is a selfish or irrational decision is completely detached from the realities of the people who do so. The irrational part is how long you keep someone in your life out of love, obligation, or guilt/manipulation.
I find it more remarkable the number of people with abusive or just generally shitty parents who still have contact with them, to the detriment of their own mental health.
I was in an abusive marriage and my ex-wife helped me go no contact with my mother and it was one of the greatest things I’ve ever done. Just to give people an idea of the “any port in a storm” emotional torment you have trying to cut off the worst person you know.
The TL/DR for that whole article is in the last few paragraphs. It's basically, mom cared about me once, so I reject any complaint about parents as invalid. Also, people outside of my religious subculture are too selfish and silly to have kids.
That’s the kind of insight I’d expect from someone who was a Stanford undergrad in 2018. Such rich life experiences to share and share and share and keep sharing.
the highlighted sentence sets up a contrast between physical and sexual abuse on one hand and feeling misunderstood on the other, It could be clearer but the implication is that one is reasonable grounds for going no contact and the other isn’t.
This is not how I read it at all, even after a few re-reads.
This person is an editor at the NYT. She is affiliated with an ultra-right Zionist org, and the NYT itself is fascist. I do not see any reason to give her the benefit of the doubt.
yea whatever some people who could never fully define why their childhood was such a struggle/hell (and of course that carries over into adulthood though it's not the same) don't choose to have kids🤷 Was it the abuse? Was it neurodiversity? Neglect? Faulty brain wiring? All of the above? Who knows
These people can fuck themselves. I was forced to cut off my parents after 35 years of emotional and verbal abuse. These people seem to think feeding and watering your kids are all you need to make servants. Lots of people grow up in poor but loving homes and are normal. Love is the key, not things
I refuse to even give this a click but “millennials aren’t having babies because they can’t emotionally, physically and/or sexually abuse them” is the most disturbing self-own I’ve ever seen
I mean yeah I guess if you know you wouldn’t be able to parent without abusing your kids then you shouldn’t have kids, but that is, I cannot stress this enough, a you problem, rando opinion author.
If someone recognizes that they shouldn't have kids because the odds are too high that they would neglect/abuse them (and it's accurate, not an imaginary "abuse victims grow up to be abusers" fear), that's a good thing! That person is doing a courageous and virtuous thing!
Agreed, but writing a weird op-ed about how millennials aren’t having kids because of some en masse assumption that they would abuse them, is not a good thing. Self-awareness applied toward harm prevention is great! Projecting your personal issues on your entire generation is not so great.
Yeah, I don't think this writer falls into "wants kids but knows they aren't responsible enough/have mental illness severe enough to take care of them properly" situation at all. They're pretty clearly on the pro-child abuse side.
This is just a genuine expression of the conservative worldview. Ive been saying this for years but ppl, understandably given the horror, dont want to hear it: Conservatism is about Hierarchy, and many conservatives see the "right" to rape others as a sign of their higher social position.
like: ALLOT of conservatives GENUINELY BELIEVE that parents have the right to sexually abuse their kids. When they say "Parents' Rights", "Family First", "My Kids My Rules" THAT is what they mean. The Republican campaign against CPS in the 80s&90s was EXPLICITLY abt the ~right~ to beat&rape kids
I.e. their & Republicans' unending & vigorous support for legally marrying off teen brides to older men, as young as 12, 1000's a year, to be raped & no way to divorce till the teen turns 18.
It's entitlement at its absolutely most toxic: Believing that they are eternally entitled to their children's time and love even when they are abusive.
Ignoring the blasé take on abuse, if it truly were "impossible" you'd expect to see like, what, an 80%+ rate of folks cutting their parents outta their life?
I mean, my kids haven't even moved out the first time yet and have already told me they probably don't want kids. The younger more innocent one says she might be open to fostering someday. But they know the world is on fire!
Frankly, just being able to talk to them about issues and be listened to. I'm 61, I have spoken to my mother for only a few words in the past dozen years, and that's only because she saw me out for a walk, we live a few miles apart.
The problems with my dad growing up were at least as bad, but you could talk to him, and he'd listen. So we maintained a relationship until he died at 93.
Yeah, this. My parents were immature as people (who isn't), but did the best they could within their limitations and supported me. And I love them and support them in return--not because I consider it an obligation, but because I care about them.
I cut my father and pretty much the entirety of his side of the family off. He was verbally abusive to both myself and my mother growing up, constantly absent when I needed him, and didn't wanna pay for my college bc he wanted to drive a fucking racecar. he did some other shit but I don't wanna-
-get into it bc I was not the victim of those actions and I respect the victims' anonymity. the last straw for that whole side of the family was this year. after numerous second chances, they decided to vote for the administration that would make my trans existence and my cousin's lesbian existence-
-illegal. I won't change my mind. when he dies, his ashes better not come to me bc I'll scatter them over a dumpster, where he belongs. only people I still talk to are my lesbian cousin who happens to be our veterinarian, cousin's daughter, cousin's sister, and her sister's young son.
Expecting to not be abused by the people in your life who are supposed to be your most ardent and reliable protectors? That's some unrealistic expectations, man.
I wonder if this author has grandparents and great-grandparents like mine, who mother had to guard my sisters and me from? I'm guessing not, and that "citing" is doing a lot of fucking work there. I'm betting the author thinks that SA doesn't happen in families very often.
I'm just thinking about how so many archaeological digs plus DNA analysis have shown that incest is extremely common. Many people throughout human existence have been born to girls who were violated by close male relatives.
I think often about the Adverse Childhood Experiences survey, a tool used in drug/alcohol treatment to demonstrate the impact trauma has on substance use. The more of these experiences you have, the higher the likelihood is that you will relapse after treatment
What on gods green earth is this reasoning??? If not abusing a child is such an "impossible" standard for an individual to reach, then it's definitely better for them to stay childless. Holy shit.
Absolutely no one will ever accept consequences for their behaviour voluntarily and people are constantly acting like they're victimised when people can enforce the most basic ones, like being honest about what has happened and removing themselves from further abuse. Its so pathetic!
And that might be understandable if this was not a common right-wing talking point about estrangement. It would be more surprising if this article didn't take this particular approach to the idea of estrangement
Nyt has some of the worst writing out there. It’s just surprising for what supposed to be the premier pages. The paragraph is supposed to be functioning as a disclaimer, like “ obviously there are some good reasons to cut off a parent”. The writer is not good enough to do it in elegant way.
Insane how the author followed up “Children don’t like being sexually abused” with “This has created an impossible standard for parenting” and both them and their publisher thought that was completely normal
It’s like a direct copy/paste from that one self-pitying, point-missing Parents of Spoiled, Ungrateful No-Contact Kids forum, complete with the insistence that these kids just cut contact for “no reason,” and any reasons they do give are petty and childish and therefore not worth considering.
Thankfully, someone posted a link to the article about said forum downthread. Don’t read it if you aren’t ready to feel seething rage on behalf of these peoples’ kids for at least half an hour afterwards. https://bsky.app/profile/spamps.bsky.social/post/3lqfb367ank2n
The unreachable standard of not molesting your kids, the onerous burden of giving them love and support. If people think they can never live up to that standard then yeah, they should never have kids. Or be allowed within 100 feet of schools and playgrounds.
You wrote that well, it actually made me say "that's really well written" aloud after I finished it. You likely captured a lot of folks' issue with that article
Sometimes people who cut off parental contact are willing to speak publicly about the abuse they received. Others will use terms like "clashing values" or "parental toxicity" 😒
Does the NYT not have editors? This feels like a point was trying to be made to split hairs between what the author views as “real” abuse & not (which is gross enough) and came off as hand waving sexual assault as no reason to cut a parent out of your life. Yeesh.
Literally every morning I wake up to a new “The New York Times Is Dogshit” post. The fact this dumb girl gets paid a gross amount to write to millions is straight up offensive. Completely ideologically broken, moron paper...and they call him “Dash,” like the fucking incredibles boy
I've heard this song before - elderly MAGA voters want to vote for absolute shitheads but then get angry when their kids decide that Grandma and Grandpa should see a whole bunch less of their grandkids if they want to support fascism. We all make choices in life, friends.
They're used to a dynamic of adults holding younger people to impossible standards and mercilessly punishing them for the tiniest mistakes, and assume that anyone saying things should change must want to invert that dynamic rather than abolishing it.
Ngl, my mother has the same issue with her mother. My grandmother is one of the most narcissistic, self-centered individuals, but wants to completely avoid the accusation and accountability of her being the cause of a lot of misery, and tries to shunt that back on my mother.
Maybe my wife and I are just built different but not physically, emotionally, or sexually abusing our child has been sooo easy. Nap time still a struggle tho
This is probably the most ridiculous thing I've read today. I think we could be spared from a lot of these batshit articles if their authors went and fixed their own personal issues rather than trying to generalize for entire generations.
With wages being stagnant for decades, the cost of living continually been rising, & price gouging out of control (inflation the excuse, which makes no sense as corporate profits rise)... it's not only unreasonable to expect your children to "do what you did", it's impossible, & borderline inhumane.
Ah yes, religious studies. A perfectly useful degree for criticising people who cut off abusers. This definitely isn't just tradwife propaganda disguised as yet another anti millennial hit piece
The kids aren't holding their parents responsible for their mental health. They are holding themselves responsible and setting boundaries to protect that, which may include removing people from their lives who contribute negatively to it.
Sometimes "I explained the obvious truth 4,993 times to my kid that all immigrants must be driven into the sea, and now my phone doesn't ring" is also a thing
As a parent who was ghosted by The Child for supposed abuse and neglect (yeah, no) and then, when having the chance to ask The Child a big WTF and being told they have no recollection of these conversations, all I can say is…I HOPE YOUR SPAWN FUCKS WITH YOU, TOO!
You were stunned to see inept wording that ends up implying not doing "emotional, physical or sexual abuse" is a "nearly impossible standard for parenting" but even weirder is how it implies such abuses "were previously considered unavoidable parts of life".
100% wanted to write a "my generation are a bunch fragile whiners now afraid their kids will be as bad" because she learned such pandering from Brooks & Douthat, but alas failed to learn to maintain plausible deniability when implying trauma is weakness.
Look, you're telling me that kids these days expect you to not sexually abuse them, on top of everything else? Come ON, no one can do that, these impossible parenting standards are getting ridiculous,
I'm sorry but you seem to be wilfully misunderstanding the author.
The author seems to try to make a distinction between legitimate reasons to cut off contact with a parent (like forms of abuse) and reasons they think are unlegitimate (clashing values, toxicity, lack of support/understanding).
I re-read the excerpt and I think you are being far too generous. She briefly sets abuse apart from other things but she does not at all state or even imply that it is a good reason for estrangement.
Maybe she cannot write clearly about these issues because she isn't over what she went through yet, and maybe another inner-turmoil symptom is that she decided to work for Douthat and Brooks.
Yes, they are presenting a cultural shift. But they are not saying that not-abusing your child is a nearly impossible standard as a parent. That's just what the person who took the screenshot and marked the text makes it look like, which I think is unfair to the author.
The entire thesis is the millennials aren't having kids because we're secretly worried we'll fail the standards we hold our parents to. Like not abusing our kids
I didn't like the Op-Ed (very sick of this debate and I have never known a person who cut off a family member who didn't have it coming) but I think the person you're responding to is correct in her reading of the author, and you're just being rude in response to her for no reason
Perhaps "wilful" wasn't needed in that sentence. It was the closest I could come up with in English - not my native tongue - to point out the unfairness.
What are this person’s qualifications to judge the “distinction” between Who is justified and not justified in reacting to the ways they were abused? How do they compare to the qualifications of this 23-year-old trust fund kid who we will doubtless soon find out is like Bret Stepens’ godchild?
1. She must be 29, considering her graduating year. 2. She is not saying that anyone who was abused is not justified in going no-contact from her parents, because that is not what the screenshotted sentence means in English. This is another screenshot from the piece.
"I don't know what happened! And if it happened it couldn't have been so bad! And if it was so bad it wasn't my fault! And if it was my fault maybe they deserved it!"
Also “well I’m SORRY I was such an AWFUL parent!”just the general pivot away from “hey this kind of sucked” to turn the conversation to “whaaaa you hurt my feelings by telling me how I hurt you!”
Bill Cosby used to tell a "joke" that his father liked to say: "I brought you into this world, I can take you out. And it don't matter to me because I'll make another one that looks just like you."
One fucking moment of self reflection and a quick search online would show just how many people are victims of sexual abuse from family members. No contact is the generous option for people that don’t deserve to exist in public if at all.
The worst possible outcome for my family would have been that someone outside the family knew what was going on. My mother was always telling us to worry about what the neighbours thought.
We haven’t spoken for 22 years. She tells people I’m bipolar. That’s better, apparently, than abused.
It can be true that our parents didn’t purposefully harm us AND we are upset by the harm they inadvertently caused. And that’s different from abuse/neglect. I had everything I needed. I didn’t feel accepted as I was. I can hold all my feelings about that and still know they mostly did their best.
That’s not to say other people should hold those contradictions or should keep contact despite harm. I’m just saying most of them loved us the way they could
that "...even righteously" is such a complete giveaway. the author is indignant about adults exercising agency in parental relationships just the same way many parents are when their grown children don't want to have anything to do with them. How dare they! Suck it up and love us, ingrates!
As a person with 2 adult children I can confidently say acknowledging I made mistakes, saying sorry when I need to, and being nice to my kids is pretty easy and very rewarding.
As an adult with one parent that has been cut out of my life and one who has stayed in it? Yeah, that makes the difference. My mom sincerely apologized and has taken efforts to be better than she was when I was a kid, my dad just got meaner and nastier while refusing to accept culpability.
As a parent of three, I found it much much harder and I feel like that's true of a lot of people. Swallowing your pride and admitting you fucked up is, for many people, extremely hard. But here's the thing, and I say this as a person w difficulty: get the fuck over yourself. It's not about you. 1/
Once I got over my damn stupid ass self, it became easier and easier. And you do it because they're kids and their *your kids* and what kind of an asshole refuses to change themselves for the better when it really counts? And basically all these fuckers refuse to do it. 2/
I have no patience or pity for those shitheads *precisely because* I've been there and understand what's happening and I *got over my damn self*. Oh boo hoo hoo it's too hard to suck my fragile ego up gimmie a fucking break. 3/3
Yeah I can't say it came naturally to me, but sometimes I just mess up you know? I made mistakes I didn't know I was making and those affected my kids, I can say sorry!
Please read what you are replying to, Jeremy. The article claims that not sexually abusing your kids is an impossible standard and I want to think you don't believe that's the "reason exactly"
Hide it in a hiding place where no one ever goes
Put it in your pantry with your cupcakes
It's a little secret, just the Robinsons' affair
Most of all, you've got to hide it from the kids
I'm also GenX and made my fair share of crappy parent mistakes. My girls come to dinner every Sunday because they know that, however imperfect we are, their dad and I love them always, support them always. It's hard but certainly not impossible to be a good enough parent.
Anyway, here I am at 54 working through cPTSD I have, trying to figure out the triggers *I* have and recognize and tamp them down before I go and do something angry/stupid/violent.
Different childhood circumstances here, but roughly your age and in the same boat, *and* having dealt with a few therapists who were incompetent at best -- finding the right help is so much harder than people who say "Get therapy" understand. Best of luck to you
There were good reasons we were happy to stay out until streetlights etc. What kind of hugs do people think parents give who had to be reminded the kids existed and might need care?
I'm 77. My undiagnosed mother rotated severing and reestablishing relations with my two siblings and I throughout our adult lives. Shit happens and you get on with things.
I’m guessing that these are the same people who accuse gay people of going after the children. “But raising children without physically or sexually abusing them is nearly impossible!” 🤮
"How are we supposed to raise kids if we're not allowed to berate, neglect, beat, molest, or otherwise torment them with impunity?? These new standards are CLEARLY a sign of Millennial Weakness!!!!" - Whoever wrote that slop
The author thinks we all become closer to our parents when we have kids because suddenly we understand their imperfection. Actually it became harder for me to understand because it turns out it’s the easiest thing in the world loving and putting my child first.
The people who cut off their parents usually don't even require their parents to actually love or help them. They draw the line at their parents refusing to stop hurting them. Like even apathy would be workable, but those parents can't even do that.
This is my story. I begged and begged until my therapist told me to think on a question ‘what price is too high for you to pay to make this work?’ It was my sanity. So, I stopped. By the way, people like the writer of this garbage don’t know how much work of mourning goes into cutting off a parent.
Yeah I got off my mom after years of trying when she told me I deserved her abuse because I was a horrible kid. What can you even do with that? She somehow still expected me to visit.
I felt the same way. I remember being like right on the brink mentally and I gave each of my parents one last phone call looking for literally any shred of hope but there was none. This was after years of putting up with it and trying to gentle parent them into being good parents. It's so difficult.
This! Decades of therapy. So many attempts to set boundaries.
People just do not understand what it’s like to be scared your dad is going to show up at your work to confront you about how you don’t call him more. But that’s the reality.
Welp. I got reprimanded when I told my dad that I’d appreciate if he doesn’t call me unless it’s a life or death situation. You would think I had murdered someone with that statement. He believed it was his right to call me. Thank goodness for block button.
It’s one of the most bizarre forms of grief. How do you mourn someone that is alive and well? Or something you’ve never experienced? It was a painful process becoming a mother to the inner child I wished had one.
The juxtaposition of the elements makes her argument. Also she says that parenting is a bad deal now because people cut off their parents instead of feeling like they have an obligation to take care of them lol
Yes that was her actual thesis which I came here to read criticisms of. Instead it was just accounts accusing her of defending parental sexual/physical abuse.
yeah man, your future children "citing physical or sexual abuse" sure does seem like an insurmountable bar for so many normal people to clear, sounds great print it
The most generous possible read of this is "emotional/physical/sexual abuse are valid reasons to remove someone from your life, while differing opinions and hurt feelings are not" but even from that frame this is total garbage churned out to coddle toxic boomers, and also formatted insanely poorly
Ah yes, the impossible parenting standard not physically or sexually assaulting your children. Surprised she didn't shoehorn a "woke" in there too. Nice readership you have there NYT. Must be all MAGA/GOP by this point.
In case you haven't noticed, the Dems have been back-pedalling from any association with "wokeness" because they claim that's why they lost the election, rather than the myriad actual reasons. The NYT is the Dems' spirit animal.
The idea children should have an undying fealty to parents who have failed them but parents hold no responsibility for those failures is coupled with the idea that parenthood is ownership.
Well said. Not only do these types of people want no responsibility or accountability for their malicious conduct, they expect the undying filial loyalty to be one sided, without reciprocating it in any fashion.
It’s only “nearly impossible” if you are a vicious monster who doesn’t want to be a better person.
“Fix your hearts or die” is the only appropriate response.
People have been cutting off and ghosting their parents for thousands of years for any number of reasons, or none at all. It’s not a new thing. This guy is an idiot.
It was much easier before cell phones & fast travel. " got a job 8+ hours drive away. I guess we won't see as much of you now."
No need to mention why we applied for those jobs.
I live in a country where your child gets taken away if you’re too poor, growing up I was told “don’t have kids you can’t afford.” What did they expect?
The sin of our parents was that they chose selfish things instead of choosing their children.
I know a lot of good people who were raised by shitty parents, but who do better because they give to their own kids what wasn't given to them: unconditional love.
Super weird that the previous 2 generations had so many babies at a time where North America had all the surviving industrial production and then when housing was cheap and they had just created a social safety net.
People worried about the population: Why don't you selfish assholes have more kids?
Millennials: It is too expensive to raise kids. Why don't you selfish assholes raise taxes on the wealthy, expand government assistance, and fix the housing market?
*my organs are federal property and having kids is entry into a multistage carceral dragnet that hopes I will bleed out in a parking lot & the state will get my kid for its ends
TY for your words.
I view my very deliberate, informed decision to be childless by choice--and my spouse is the same--as the most selfless thing I can do for my unborn child AND my planet because my shit stops with me, the planet is less a couple parasites, & I'm more free to help, less focus on ME.
Yes, I don't know how people make that choice optimistically. When I think of an unsuitable environment for loved ones, fascism is at the top of the list.
I'm betting the "tools to fight" they mention are like voting and watching NPR.
I'm so glad they hide their shit reporting behind pay walls.
However, it's a great way for them to direct their Privilege-flavored propaganda exclusively to the affluent. It's important for Capital that the Bourgeoisie always blame the lower classes for society's problems.
While I agree with many that the term gaslighting is overused, I feel like this article and its ilk are totally doing that, and it is maddening. Jesus fucking Christ y’all, you can’t stop going on about the price of fucking eggs, how much do you think a baby costs?
"There's no money, their parents are desperate to cook the planet and abolish democracy, and they can't afford a house. Why don't millennials want to have children?"
Comments
The Atlantic for the Horrors™️
If you hate children and only see them a "resources", I suppose it probably is.
"My studio apartment is $1,500 a month."
"Are they afraid of their children cancelling them?"
"I'll make my final student loan payment on my death bed."
"is it a cultural thing?"
"My last ER visit overdrew my account by $500."
"I guess we'll never know."
That's a whole other order of magnitude. She should write about that.
Listen, my life is not hard, but even I know that if the toughest choice in your life is whether or not to have kids, then it's a pretty sheltered one.
New mothers basically shouldn't be allowed to write articles about having children for at least two years after they give birth.
https://youtu.be/yKf40CLF9MU
I'm a millennial and have friends who are grandparents
apparently they didn't get the memo
Hard pass on that fucked up animal husbandry.
As ever, conservatives get what they want and it makes them unhappy.
Fixed it for them
Fuck the NYTimes for writting Millennials should stop eating avocado toast and why arent you having more kids in the same fucking serious tone. As if the reason for both isn't the same.
Her privilege shows for the remainder of very public, very NYTimes therapy session.
I’m the cycle breaker in my family, and I’ve never once felt like NOT harming them was too hard. wtf
Related gem: "If you think Boomers are bad you should see their parents."
If I knew my parents' generation would fuck us in the ass and that we'd be surrounded by morons, I'd probably forgo having children, too.
Reason-and fix-is simple
Weird that critical thinkers don't lay around in their own waste while fucking the day away.
Biology.
Drivers versus passengers.
American confusion.
But they're racist so...
"Michal will edit Ross Douthat’s Friday newsletter on politics and culture and will commission and edit guest essays in those subject areas as well."
https://www.nytco.com/press/michal-leibowitz-returns-to-times-opinion/
Anything else is coming from the reader, not the author. It's called bias. Which is fine for fiction. But ... when someone says this...
Ask most queer people over 40. We know.
It also enables you embrace and value your own worth, while making room for your chosen family.
Win-win.
a protected class of people, if you must have classes
https://bsky.app/profile/kitforkat.com/post/3lqkjbeucyc2a
Rarely do they just outright say "So you got raped under my care. And what, you're perfect??"
Did I miss an abuser memo?
"You're 18. I did my part. GTFO."
Then they're outraged when the kids don't come by for the holidays.
I cut an emotionally abusive parent out of my life and can’t say I’m surprised by this excerpt
Now we’re smarter and know better and try to avoid them. Why would we want to go back?
All this complaint about making an effort when their dads didn’t. Irony, their dad’s might’ve if they didn’t watch their friends die in a trench.
https://www.cnn.com/2025/05/09/world/sexual-abuse-mishandling-allegations-pope-leo-xiv
A+ analysis there
This person is an editor at the NYT. She is affiliated with an ultra-right Zionist org, and the NYT itself is fascist. I do not see any reason to give her the benefit of the doubt.
The fact that they didn’t take the time to make it as clear as possible is unacceptable for a published article.
I don't think it's safe to have kids with the knowledge that people like the author are able to walk around in public unhindered.
"You are not obligated to interact with someone who entitles themselves to harming you. Other peoples' feelings are not your responsibility."
Their kids don’t cut them off with abuse accusations.
Those families exist.
I love being around my parents! I moved back in with them when I needed more medical support at 28.
It’s not an impossible standard.
“Not abusing your kid” is now an impossible standard to keep?
Dis I miss the Golden Rule change to: “Spare the spoiling, and rod the children”?
But yeah, less visibility. Sure.
At least someone got the point across.
Well done
Pretty sure at least 80% of meeting those standards involve not being an asshole.
Karl Marx was right. Traditional parenting and familism are oppressive top-down power structures that need to go.
My mom is in her 60s
All things are possible.
😮💨
Also, what a stupid take.
https://bsky.app/profile/self.agency/post/3lqgh7bg6kk2u
A YouTube editor is a birdsong smuggler.
A New York Times Editorial is an attention singularity.
Wisdom begins with the right terms.
I’m tired of Young Trauma.
Or anyone, ever?
But seriously though, this person needs a rather aggressive conversation to be had with their limbs for this wild shit.
And she's a NYT opinion *editor*.
Difficulty: Impossible
The author seems to try to make a distinction between legitimate reasons to cut off contact with a parent (like forms of abuse) and reasons they think are unlegitimate (clashing values, toxicity, lack of support/understanding).
You've come across as if you're actively defending it.
Basically saying anyone who takes issue with it is being dishonest.
These fucking people's life motto.
Not great at the time. Really bad in retrospect.
We haven’t spoken for 22 years. She tells people I’m bipolar. That’s better, apparently, than abused.
the other part is that raising children is completely unaffordable and also our government seems to actively hate supporting their futures
my personal experience is also not that specific reason but many other cited examples contributed to my personal decision
I get that the article can be interpreted that way?
but how am I upholding that as an impossible standard myself?
Hide it in a hiding place where no one ever goes
Put it in your pantry with your cupcakes
It's a little secret, just the Robinsons' affair
Most of all, you've got to hide it from the kids
Found out when my dad died that she also physically abused me when I was too young to remember. He threatened to kill her if she did it again.
We had kids when we were 36 because… 1/?
I am 100% not a perfect parent. And I fucked my kids up in my own unique way, but I tried REALLY HARD to be present and available for my kids.
They’ve already told us their not having their own kids and tbh, why would they in the…
Both good and bad.
I own my mistakes. I apologize when the lizard brain takes over.
I hope the good outweighs the bad and I hope they know the bad isn’t 100% about them. The triggers… they are hard to control.
Being able to apologize to your own kids is humbling but is was a step I had to take and thank god I did
I KNOW the triggers are there. I still can’t control them (hence the reason they’re triggers).
Anyway, facing this shit head on is the best/only way.
It’s messy being human.
That "seem" is doing a lot of work.
So what did I do?
I dedicated myself to my kids, being for them what my parents weren't for me.
It's not an "impossible standard."
It's just loving your kids. It's CHOOSING them.
My parents didn't choose me. I chose my kids.
That's the secret.
Having kids helped me judge my own parents more objectively.
I could see their choices... and their selfishness... more clearly.
I had to cut ties and leave the country to retain my sanity
Unusually, my father eventually got treated for OCPD and in his declining years we reconnected and got on pretty well
(OCPD is the control freak one, not the obsessive one (OCD). It's a stupid name)
People just do not understand what it’s like to be scared your dad is going to show up at your work to confront you about how you don’t call him more. But that’s the reality.
It took almost a year for my nervous system to adjust.
Emotional abuse on the other hand you may have a point.
“Fix your hearts or die” is the only appropriate response.
No need to mention why we applied for those jobs.
Fuck these people
The sin of our parents was that they chose selfish things instead of choosing their children.
I know a lot of good people who were raised by shitty parents, but who do better because they give to their own kids what wasn't given to them: unconditional love.
Millennials: It is too expensive to raise kids. Why don't you selfish assholes raise taxes on the wealthy, expand government assistance, and fix the housing market?
PWATP: We're banning birth control and gayness.
*my organs are federal property and having kids is entry into a multistage carceral dragnet that hopes I will bleed out in a parking lot & the state will get my kid for its ends
I view my very deliberate, informed decision to be childless by choice--and my spouse is the same--as the most selfless thing I can do for my unborn child AND my planet because my shit stops with me, the planet is less a couple parasites, & I'm more free to help, less focus on ME.
I'm betting the "tools to fight" they mention are like voting and watching NPR.
However, it's a great way for them to direct their Privilege-flavored propaganda exclusively to the affluent. It's important for Capital that the Bourgeoisie always blame the lower classes for society's problems.