Last month I toured a Catholic Church that made you Venmo them $10 to light an electric candle to get into heaven? Cast a spell? Summon a demon? I'm not sure how it works, but that grift is too good to give up.
Mmhmm, like, someone told me the new pope was "progressive" and perhaps "woke" and it took less than an hour for the receipts of "covered up sexual abuse of children" dropped
And more importantly: The Vatican’s global real estate wealth—estimated at €2 trillion—rivals the GDP of major nations like Italy and surpasses the sovereign wealth funds of countries like Norway. Though not a state in the usual sense, its economic power is comparable to a mid-size nation.
The standard today is if you're opposed to randomly snatching people off the street to be delivered to a foreign concentration camp as slave labour, that makes you a radical Marxist lunatic. I'm just saying that the Overton window for what constitutes "good" is somewhere out on the street these days
Like it or not, a lot of people in the world, maybe more sincerely in other countries than this one, do consider a Pope's words prophetic and it does shape their thinking. Better to have a guy who's talking about caring for the poor, the refugee and the Earth, no matter the flaws of the church.
That all stands odf, but a lot of people are literally pretending like Pope Framcis was pro LGBT despite him having called it “worse than a famine” among other things.
I completely get this stance but I find it a little weird people completely dismiss Francis. Donating your goofy car to be a mobile clinic in Gaza is an undebatable good thing people should celebrate, imagine if the biggest religious population in the world was more woke.
Not to be all 🤓 about pederasty but the guy elected defended some diddler, not a diddler himself no?
Again, my point is I'd prefer catholicism (or any religion) move towards progressivism at a snail's pace than the horrifying conservative direction right wingers want them to, and evangelics are at.
Anyone in a position of leadership in the Catholic Church is a pedophile unless proven otherwise tbh (obvs not in a legal sense. But the precedent has been set)
But then are we all doomed and that's it? That's what I don't get about this perspective, Catholicism is not disappearing tomorrow (although many of them are becoming extreme Evangelics), so it being even slightly better is a good thing, no?
I would like to see governments and the like push back and strip special protections from church leaders -- let's actually shine a light in there instead of letting churches be tax exempted entities that get special privileges and such regarding reporting abuse
reddit atheists were onto something at least partially but they're so hitched to the smugness and debate-lord instincts that people consider them to be funky ass annoying basement clowns and won't read further
Yeahhh... A couple of things about this new Pope concerns me. He's anti-LGBTQ+ and he's opposed to ordaining women as deacons. Therefore I already don't like him.
But I'm not Catholic, so whatever.
That if they liquidated their riches could probably end world hunger which would seem to be what Jesus would do from my understanding of the Bible just saying!
I was just having that thought last night. Like yay, I'm glad he's more progressive than most, and perhaps some Catholics will start to grow and be more open hearted - but he's still the leader of a religion that has been profoundly harmful to millions of people.
People's main criticism of reddit atheists is that they're annoying, which is ironic when you consider that many vocal theists are more annoying, and that's the least of their issues.
They've already shown they don't care about victims. Hell, Francisco was far from good and he seemed brilliant by comparison, this is hardly news. They'll keep protecting murderers and abusers.
Also, it seems like the claims are actually bullshit because he was one of the guys that helped crush Sodalicio / Opus Dei in Peru? And they denounced him in a smear campaign?
Current pope colaborated with previous pope to close Sodalicio, an awful reactionary catholic group that you can look up if you wanna know the extent of their abuses.
He's also contrary to Opus Dei, which I suggest you look up too
Long story short, they got mad and threw a smear campaign against him
Is that good? Meh, not THAT good. He's still the pope. He's still the head of one of the worst institutions in the world. No pope to this day has done anything to solve any of the massive abuses and violence it is involved in and none will.
you'd be hard pressed to find a candidate who didnt. this is the catholic church we're talking about. people mythologize francis as this leftist saint but that's just who they wish he was. the real guy was just like the rest
Was Mikhail Gorbachev a good premiere of Russia? The one who dismantled communism? It's an interesting question because the subsequent government that followed possessed all the corruption and lack of respect for human life that was present in the former. Maybe the church can't be "fixed"
Gonna go trad cath for a moment, even though the church literally graping people is why I'm alive.
At its best, it's not that, and always people (& even institutions) can change.
Well said. Also, Leo is using a chosen name after calling trans people "made up," so double and triple fuck that guy and a thousand fold to the entire organization.
Like I get it but you’re not gunna thanos snap the church out of existence, wish you could, but this dude specifically chose Leo XIV, Leo XIII was a pro labor Pope.
This dude told JD to fuck himself.
They coulda picked Burke, but they picked a progressive American.
Yeah I’m hopeful that the new pope ends up being chill but at the end of the day, he’s still going to be a conservative catholic and that shit can’t be redeemed
One can always hope this one will bring truth and reform to that organization. Maybe being from the middle of it will help set a better path. At this point, I am going to choose to lean into hope.
It doesn't matter, if you're a neo-Atheist or a ML one, when you are criticising, how religious groups Shelters criminals, in the name of "changing them".
Yes. Also, let’s remind everyone of the teachings of Jesus: the Eight Beatitudes. This is what we were taught as Catholic children. It was awful to slowly, but surely, understand that the Church became an organization to repress women and prey on the vulnerable.
Yup.
Any pope is a lesser evil pope. Probably the main reason they chose this guy is because evangelism and weirdo catholic converts are too much of a political force to ignore anymore.
Being progressive for a pope isn't the same as being progressive.
Saying that you won't recognize gay marriage but that it isn't grounds for excommunication isn't progressive. Saying "Trans Ideology" is dangerous and evil isn't progressive.
Progressive is a relative term not an absolute one. If the guy before you said that being gay is grounds for excomunication and you say that it isn't, you are in fact progressive, you are progressing, just because it isn't fast enough for your specific liking doesn't suddenly make it not progressive
yeah I see people saying stuff like "he's not actually the woke pope, he doesn't support LGBT" or whatever and it's like... what did you expect? he's still catholic
if you were excited about the possibility of an actually progressive pope, I'm sorry but that was never even on the table
If the Pope declared a crusade on American Evangelical Christians for their many heresies and also ushered in the construction of a secular binational state in Palestine, ending the occupation and apartheid and the Zionist entity and replacing it with something capable of peace, that'd be rad
I never believed and the older I got, I understood why. These aren't good people. They've been on the wrong side of history forever and their book hasn't been updated in 3000 years and they still cherry pick from it.
He was right-wing, he was racist, a monarchist, and an anti-communist, but it’s debatable whether he was a Nazi. He never joined the Nazi party and didnt share their core distinguishing beliefs
Fascist absolutely yes, obv, but specifically Nazi, id say probably not.
All global religious institutions are horrific; Organized religion is based on misogyny (Buddhism too) and greed. Every single one.
Catholicism violates the New Testament; According to it, God's kingdom is NOT of this world (John 18:36).
The Vatican's wealth is so great that it is measured in moles.
Reminder that the Catholic Church was pardoned by the Canadian government from having to pay a relatively miniscule amount of money in restitution for the indigenous communities they tried to literally erase from existence in collaboration with the CDN govt. Evil colonialist organization.
it's got a bad rep because the new atheists were/are such clowns but trump couldn't be in power without the support of evangelicals. the good arguments from that scene should definitely be retained and repurposed
let's decouple atheism and antitheism from "reddit." those people have revealed themselves to be smug conservative morons. true antitheism should come from the left and we need to reclaim the entire issue
The last pope was also a bastard. Dude fucked with the affairs of other countries and pushed harmful shit. A lot of people still love huffing fumes abt this shit
Maybe I have twisted thinking, but that's why wanting him to be somewhat decent matters. It's a powerful position with powerful influence. Personal beliefs don't change facts.
You mean that an institution that still believes in witches and demons possession, that is pretty much managed at the upper levels by child rapists and uses its vast wealth to subjugate women and deny science doesn't have enough good qualities to overlook these minor infractions?
Aside from the fact that the story they peddle doesn't make a bit of sense, they also tell you that you're born evil and the only way to fix yourself is to give them lots of money. If you burn enough people alive, they'll believe anything.
Humans are the origin of evil we just blame anything other. No matter who you are you likely create suffering for your own comfort and connivence. Church has done good too and other religions have done evil(Islam)
Enjoy the blame game it does make you feel better as an individual I’m sure.
Yes. Having this discussion right now with a friend who is concerned. I’m like, fam, the last pope still wanted trans ppl dead and he was considered “progressive” for a pope. You cannot have a damn system that says, “only a man at the top,” and not end up with someone with fucked gender beliefs.
Hey now, just because there is a literal global criminal conspiracy to protect child rapists; doesn't mean that the Vatican is evil! They also preserve paintings! That's uh- that's good!
The catholic church was one of the ONLY groups that managed to actually push back on Nazi Germany's policies, particularly the ones involving the disabled to the point where they got rolled back.
Let's not undersell their potential influence even if they have had their issues
Issues? Mf, they had and still have a direct hand in colonialism, which resulted in millions of deaths, forced religious conversions and other vile acts. From upholding Patriarchy to running Conversion therapy camps, doing all sorts of dehumanising acts, even to this day without any sign of pausing.
The bar is admittedly low but tell me, do you want a MAGA pope? an AFD pope? How about a proisreal pope
You think I left the catholic church over a decade ago cuz I didn't like kneeling? I just recognize the Church's influence and think it's best to consider it lucky we got pope that's not fascist
I'm not ignorant, I know of all the shit the Vatican is responsible for and I hate it, but as far the status quo goes, it's far from fascist and we kinda need that right now
Your POV is yours, & that's fine. But it's narrow. The Church means a lot to millions, many of whom are disadvantaged, displaced, illiterate, or in abject poverty. Many were made this way AND made Catholic by the horrific Colonialist practices of the discovery era. There is no quick solution....
Look man I’m sorry to burst your bubble but many many many white women would be more than happy to help perpetuate the horrible system that’s currently built. Women aren’t magically wired differently than men, they’re just as capable of being scum sucking bigots as men are.
Honestly knowing what I know about the Catholic Church, it would be more surprising if they picked somebody who didn't have a history of covering up sexual abuse by fellow priests at this point
i mean i agree, but if he's like francis, and i am hearing he is, then maybe it's another step towards making the global religious institution LESS horrific.
it's just a shame he (so i have been told) openly covered up all that pedophilia.
Acknowledging the reality of religious institutions is Reddit Atheism™ because voids forbid a religious person have to think about the ramifications of their beliefs.
Because even having it shift to be slightly more progressive can help the overall cause and we should try to applaud the good things it does to try and get Catholics to embrace the idea that we aren't there enemies even as we criticize the bad things.
Until there's an atheist pope who admits all religions are a myth dreamt up by the rich and powerful to control the masses, I don't recognise any of them. That goes for all religions.
Prevost spoke about the "sympathy for beliefs and practices that are at odds with the gospel," citing "homosexual lifestyle" and "alternative families comprised of same-sex partners and their adopted children."
Isn't the Catholic Church just the Roman Empire co-opting Jesus' New Wave of spirituality, while softening the anti-imperialism of His message, and then becoming the Roman empire?
Thank you. The pope's personal opinions don't change the fact that the Catholic Church is historically one of the most oppressive institutions in human history. Thinking a woke pope would change anything is on par with demanding black homossexual trans women be represented among billionaires
Yep. It's an anachronistic, wealth-hoarding, pedophile-protecting, responsibility-avoiding, misogynistic, hypocritical cabal and should be ignored other than to pursue it for compensation for the damage it's done & continues to do.
People don't realise how low they've lowered the bar.
Sorry to be that guy but I suggest not using the term cabal. Its original is from the hebrew kabbalah, and it's been used as a judeophobic conspiratorial term for a while by right wingers
i dont think they were intentionally doing that since they arent aware of the words origin. its part of the curse of language. same way that the word thug was a shortened version of the hindi thugee referring to highway marauders that the british used to refer to all indians they didnt like
There's a more appropriate version of that oddly enough, also from Britain: Tory, used to refer to the Conservative Party today, but derived from the Irish word Toraidhe, which means highwayman.
That's true. However, it plays in everyone's favor if he's more progressive, like Frankie was. I'm an atheist, but that dude keeps people in the right kind of line.
Yeah and every president is gonna be president of a war criming global South exploiting capitalist nightmare regime. But at least the pope gets a funny hat
I've always struggled to be impressed by a guy who kinda/sorts advocates against the genocide using his giant platform as the head of the international child rape church.
Yes. I am happy to the extent that the white racist Catholics have another pope that's preaching tolerance to them and maybe it'll get through, but I'm also under no illusions that covering up child rape is a job requirement for cardinal, let alone pope.
My biggest gripe with american catholics is that the good, kind, and caring ones hold all the guilt while the genuinley despicable ones walk around like theyre saints.
Yes. Hopefully, by letting good men like this guy and Francis influence the church, they will clean up their act. Francis was an exemplary human being. ❤️
oh absolutely it's weird and cult-like and the idea of any hierarchical institution will always be right-wing in nature, and they think it's like, THE most important thing, and that's just before getting to the weirdness about how god speaks through them more than anyone else
I saw somebody who expressed disappointment that the new Pope helped cover up child abuse in his local church and was like
Expecting Catholic authority to act justly towards abuse victims is like expecting world-class Mexican food out of Estonia. It's categorically close to impossible.
Sure is, but as an ethnic Catholic who really hoped for people to leave the Church when I was young, and then got monkey paw'ed as Pentecostals and Q-Anon filled the void, well, at least the Church pushes vaccination. That's something. 🫤
Not a single Pope dead or alive ever apologized to the jews and Christians for their part in the Holocaust nor have they apologized for the killing of millions of people during the Inquisition....That is why I'm an Aslanian(we never force conversions onto the people we interact with)
*quickly googles “what is an Aslanian?” because it sounds like someone who follows the spiritual beliefs of Narnia and I don’t want to embarrass myself*
I looked it up.
Kind of amusing, though, now that I think about it, considering the obvious (and racist) metaphor of Calormenes/Arabic Muslims as worshippers of Tash and the Narnians/White Christians as worshippers of Aslan…
Yeah but in the same way that "the Democrats so corrupt things too and Kamala didn't free Palestine and break out ties with Israel as VICE PRESIDENT" is technically true but gets us nowhere.
Comments
DUCK !
EVEN AUTO CORRECT HATES TRANS PEOPLE NOW.
Filipinos are the superior catholics.
Again, my point is I'd prefer catholicism (or any religion) move towards progressivism at a snail's pace than the horrifying conservative direction right wingers want them to, and evangelics are at.
But throwing muddy shade at Trump and Vance gets him Pope Points from REAL Christians and atheists alike…💁♀️🥰
But I'm not Catholic, so whatever.
They've already shown they don't care about victims. Hell, Francisco was far from good and he seemed brilliant by comparison, this is hardly news. They'll keep protecting murderers and abusers.
Also, it seems like the claims are actually bullshit because he was one of the guys that helped crush Sodalicio / Opus Dei in Peru? And they denounced him in a smear campaign?
He's also contrary to Opus Dei, which I suggest you look up too
Long story short, they got mad and threw a smear campaign against him
Is he covering for pedos? Not sure.
https://www.pillarcatholic.com/p/cardinal-prevost-never-investigated
At its best, it's not that, and always people (& even institutions) can change.
This dude told JD to fuck himself.
They coulda picked Burke, but they picked a progressive American.
We’re politically aligned atm
Any pope is a lesser evil pope. Probably the main reason they chose this guy is because evangelism and weirdo catholic converts are too much of a political force to ignore anymore.
The Catholic Church will never be a beacon of progressive change. It will at best be dragged kicking and screaming into the modern day.
Saying that you won't recognize gay marriage but that it isn't grounds for excommunication isn't progressive. Saying "Trans Ideology" is dangerous and evil isn't progressive.
https://www.newsweek.com/catholic-church-excommunicate-priests-following-new-us-state-law-2069039
if you were excited about the possibility of an actually progressive pope, I'm sorry but that was never even on the table
Like you can recognise it’s globally important just how regressive the pope will be, but they are always going to be regressive
Fascist absolutely yes, obv, but specifically Nazi, id say probably not.
I agree he was bad, i just think he was an anti-Nazi fascist, not a Nazi
Catholicism violates the New Testament; According to it, God's kingdom is NOT of this world (John 18:36).
The Vatican's wealth is so great that it is measured in moles.
from
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuGjcCByVyc
Enjoy the blame game it does make you feel better as an individual I’m sure.
Let's not undersell their potential influence even if they have had their issues
You think I left the catholic church over a decade ago cuz I didn't like kneeling? I just recognize the Church's influence and think it's best to consider it lucky we got pope that's not fascist
https://daily.jstor.org/the-myth-of-the-papal-toilet-chair/
it's just a shame he (so i have been told) openly covered up all that pedophilia.
People don't realise how low they've lowered the bar.
Hasn't felt quite right singing along with it these past few years but it might have to go back on the playlist...
https://youtu.be/Oz77-E6Bi90?si=renz2M1apHCe-Ubp
He was also really hot. 🤣
But Dawkins was pretty famous before reddit and it was more the way reddit rallies around Dawkins than reddit creating him.
Expecting Catholic authority to act justly towards abuse victims is like expecting world-class Mexican food out of Estonia. It's categorically close to impossible.
Kind of amusing, though, now that I think about it, considering the obvious (and racist) metaphor of Calormenes/Arabic Muslims as worshippers of Tash and the Narnians/White Christians as worshippers of Aslan…