These aren’t just abstract numbers affecting city fat cats and CEOs - this is millions of pension funds, ISA savings and other share holdings for people on modest incomes slumping at an already very tough time.
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Yep and there’s nothing you can do about it.
Can’t move my pension money, can access my pension money and even if I could I’d get hammered by financial adviser and then the tax office
True. How it will impact the economy is via Confidence. If a person had a Personal Pension fund of £100,000 on Friday, it might be worth £95,000 this morning. To make that up the individual will either have to work/contribute longer or cut spending or a mixture of both or face a poorer retirement.
It's bad, yes, but if your shares are down, don't sell them. Be patient. Whilst all the money is moving about, the markers are reacting. But things can bounce back. Don't panic captain mainwaring.
I mean, yeah. But it's mostly far cats, upper incomers and pensions. Possibly the worst environment to try and reform ISAs to make us all invested in the stock market.
That's very dependent on age. A lot people under say 40 do not think they will get a pension / the world will be very fucked by then / too far in the future to care. Not a clear and present concern.
If you are 40 this is your third crises of this kind. Still five more of these to go before we are anywhere near retirement. Boomer made crises affecting the rich and the people who voted for it. Not saying this is right but very clear no one in my circles gives much of a fudge about a huge crash
People might not be directly aware of it but their auto-enrolled pension is very likely to be exposed to what's happening and as a consequence they are losing thousands in value from their retirement funds right now as a starting point. Also a huge crash = mass job losses in the near future.
This is not true sorry- I am under 40 and am relying on a private pensions. An economic downturn is seeing my friends in the charity sector/FE and arts lose their job and I have several friends who aren’t affluent but have savings in the forms of stocks and shares
The economic downturn from this crash has nothing to do with FE funding or the NI rise / aid cuts / retreat of philanthropy that has affected employment in those sectors.
If you have enough savings to have invested you are affluent. That's the bottom line.
I can't relate to being under 40 and having friends with savings (I can't relate to being under 40 and having savings full stop) but I can absolutely relate to seeing one's loved ones in the education and arts sectors being shafted. It's happening in this house.
If you don't have any pension savings whatsoever, and you're in what I would call a conventional job (not self-employed, not gig-economy, PAYE) you'd have to have consciously opted out of your workplace pension. Which is a really stupid thing to do for almost everyone.
By relying on private pensions I mean I expect that people of our generation will need three pensions (state, workplace and then some form of private) to be comfortable whenever we retire
Still a way to go. Defined benefit is doing a lot of heavy lifting in my brain to stop too many fears. But it's still 30 years away. Still a lot more crises to worry about. Especially when this one is so easily solved.
Your typical workplace pension is a private pension and only "special" insofar as it gets the employer contributions and tax relief on your contributions. The only value in having any more DC pensions is if the funds/charges/benefits are better.
They lump it in. Won't be available till too late. Will find a way to fudge us over. A vague fatalism about it and the climate. People are kinda busy absorbing an already falling standard of living to think too deeply.
This with bit private ones are kinda just shrugging and gonna ride it out.
If you're 24+ months from retirement and invested in equities, not a lot. Markets tend to recover over the medium term, and if you're contributing, you'll be buying shares that are "cheap", meaning when they go up again you should get a nice boost
If you're lifestyled, it may not affect you at all
Lifestyling "protects" you from sudden market movements in the run up to your retirement. But, it doesn't cope with bond market shocks like we had after the Truss budget. Also, it reduces your gains in the run up to retirement
If you're not retiring today, you'll probably still be up
Yes, but stretch that chart out to 10 years which is the minimum term people are advised to invest for. Let’s not have mass suicide for a 5 day chart eh?
Am I understanding correctly that the point you make is 7.7% increase in 10 years beats BOE base rate, ie had left money earning BOE base rate for 10 years?
Are you sure you understand the stock market? Or statistics? If we always compare the past week we’ll show a good old rollercoaster that’s meaningless. Pensions aren’t day trading!
She’s right in principle: short time horizons can be misleading. It’s just that the chart destroys her own argument! (Also dividends and inflation should be included.)
Not really, perhaps a single day loss, but 3 straight days of massive losses in every market around the world, you don't just say 'ah well stocks can go up or down'.
Unless you are retiring in the next few days or weeks and can't wait 10 yrs to buy you annuity
Then it's pretty much based on what is in your pension pot now
Agree, but if you put the funds in 10 years ago, you’ll have enjoyed over 7% growth in that period. This is the ebb and flow of stocks. It’s designed to create winners and losers.
Many people will have been investing for their whole working lives. That’s how pensions are designed. Look at the chart going back to 1985, I’m not yet clutching my pearls for retirees. I think they’ll be alright. It’s not ideal, but it’s no disaster yet.
Are you mad? It's a global crash, chaos and many lives shattered. Guess who won't lose? Trump and his elites. He doesn't do anything for you. If you believe that you've been played.
Oh believe me; he’s lining his pockets like Truss did! It’s not a sense of me believing it. It’s contextualising the losses until now. In context, it’s not a crash yet. It’s a retraction. It needs more time to see if it will transpire to a full crash. I’m not saying it won’t. But look at Covid.
Until now, it was easily as bad but people weren’t hysterical about their pensions then. Also, in under 3 years the harm was reversed. It’s not the end of the world yet is what I’m saying
Absolutely and none of this is incompetence alone. He intended to do this. He’s evil and it’s a mystery why people voted for it, it was predictable normal people would be worse off. It’s awful for all of those (globally too!) who didn’t/couldn’t vote against this.
Worth remembering that the stock markets jumped when Trump was elected. Throughout most of 2024, FTSE100 was around 8200, so a correction of 500 or so was due. Still means a dip of around 500 or so beyond this, but historically this happens every couple of years or so.
At this point in history, I don't know that there's any such thing as a purely "American market". Everything America does, financially or otherwise, affects every other market in the world, and therefore every person who lives within the capitalist framework will be affected by it in some way.
I am SICK of that ignorant rich right wing types continually trashing our futures. Since the subprime mortgage crisis we’ve had nearly 2 decades of pain for the little man while the rich get richer. This latest disgusting hollow out is on the Republican Party. They can stop it. But will they?
Democrats didn't stop Bidens genocide and Republicans won't stop Trump's wrecking ball. Its a fucked up country for sure. Light on a hill, my ass. It's a volcano!
And as it propagates through capital gains, dividends, company profits and so on -- it becomes a cut in taxes, so a cut in services, welfare, investment.
I'd like to see more reporting on the effects on SME component manufacturers. Their EU export market got more expensive and complicated. Their international exports now the same. Their UK buyers will also be reducing orders.
It effects ordinary people, but of course a lot of powerful CEOs, CFOs, Investors have their success tied to these markets. These are the people who can and will apply pressure. And every earnings call will have to call out this whole thing as deranged. The madness of this will be on record
Is this the point where a government can divert from their manifesto? Because Labor might be splashing around in a slurry of messy shit if they really want to play like they're dealing with red lines and commitments to previous government policies
There is a bizarre glee at watching Trump fail (and I want him to) but also realising that it's normal people who will actually be hurt by it. An economic pyrrhic victory
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...or anyone who has a job in government which depends on tax payers.
...or anyone that receives a govt pension.
Or gets an education. Or is born in a hospital etc...
Can’t move my pension money, can access my pension money and even if I could I’d get hammered by financial adviser and then the tax office
If you have enough savings to have invested you are affluent. That's the bottom line.
The "there won't be pensions by then" refers to state pension, surely? (although I also think that's implausible)
This with bit private ones are kinda just shrugging and gonna ride it out.
If you're lifestyled, it may not affect you at all
If you're not retiring today, you'll probably still be up
JFC, there's a bit more than that going on here
Healthy?
Then it's pretty much based on what is in your pension pot now
People rarely put the funds in all at once so they will have got 7% on some, 6% on some etc
Very difficult to measure and then counter.
..and the French are fucking masters at it. Just ask SONY.
1. A foreign war affecting global supply chains.
2. A global pandemic affecting the core ability for Capitalism to function.
3. A bunch of bankers being a bunch of wa...
THIS is entirely self-inflicted.
It's worse than that time he accidentally retriggered the global nuclear arms race.
You're right that we're likely to see some economic stagnation for a while, but stock markets are all about immediate panic reactions.
Why is he doing this? Putin ordered it.