Only later do the parts sort themselves out ... or not. Intersex is a biological reality. Binary sexes are a Western patriarchal construct. Did these asshats all fail biology? And if so, how are they qualified to be making decisions about ANYTHING?
Oh they’re not qualified at all. And the law stating that experts direct specific law from general law made by judges doesn’t exist anymore either. They don’t have to know anything to make a law about it. No matter how scientifically wrong they are.
I taught embryology for 25 years. No one has reproductive organs at conception, which by this ignorantly nonbiological definition would make us all asexual. Later, all embryos, regardless of chromosomal complement, have both "male" and "female" organ precursors, so for a while, we're ALL nonbinary.
The Y chromosome doesn't develop until 6-7 weeks AFTER conception. By the very fucking definition, all embryos are indeed female at conception. FUn fact: Conception is literally the point when the sperm fertilizes the egg. since you appear to not understand basic biology.
Great citation! But embryos aren't all XY or XX. XO (Turner Syndrome), XXY (Klinefelter Syndrome), XYY (Double Y Syndrome), and XXX (Trisomy X) embryos are all viable and produce healthy functioning adults with varying sexual phenotypes. Intersex can and does begin at conception. Biological fact.
Yes I realize embryos come in various phenotypes. I was hoping this article might help the conversation around embryos development timeline. No where does it refer to the Y chromosome “developing” later which someone on the thread was saying.
Of course not. It/they are present from conception. Expression of genes in the sex determining region (SRY) weeks into development initiates the male developmental pathway. But SRY mutations or other downstream gene mutations can still yield intersex phenotypes.
Thanks for posting! Sent the link to myself to read later. One of the most interesting classes I had in my senior year of college was an endocrinology class, back in 1980. And I remember this description in the textbook we used.
That's nice n' all. but I'm not gonna believe some shmuck on social media just because they share a name with someone that owns a PhD. Especially with how rampant disinfo is nowadays.
Hope that feedback you've received has given pause for thought. The more anyone learns about something, the more they understand how much remains to be learned. What I learned in grad school was similar to what you posted, but understanding has changed, I've learned more, and you can too.
Early embryos are sexually ambiguous. If my PhD in bioanthropology & human anatomy and 25 years teaching anatomy and embryology to medical students isn't sufficient authority, may I refer you to Langman's Medical Embryology, 15th ed. and/or Moore's The Developing Human, 11th ed. Happy reading!
You seem to not understand advanced biology. I'm not sure why you are being hostle. What she stated isn't wrong by any means. You are not wrong either but yours is basic and hers is advanced. When you get more into different sciences they become a lot more detailed and complicated than middle school
The Y chromosome doesn't develop. It is present or absent depending on the conceptus genotype. Sexually ambiguous labioscrotal swellings, genital tubercles, & Mullerian/Wolffian ducts follow different developmental pathways depending on later gene expression. Please just read the books.
Chromosomes don't "develop"! They're either there or they're not. However, they can be EXPRESSED differently depending upon all sorts of factors. Perhaps that's what you meant?
Sperm typically cary either an X or a Y chromosome. Generally as soon as a sperm fuses with an egg the the Y chromosome is present if there is ever going to be one.
Sex is not differentiated in utero until about the fifth week of gestation. “At conception” we are all ambiguous. Does that make us all “other?” Or the “X” that they want to remove?
So hear me out...
This EO effectively defines all humas as females. If The Felon also bans same-sex marriage as expected, then this idiot just will make ALL marriages illegal. See what happens you you put a moron in chage of things.
The point of it all to “flood the zone”. Put out so much garbage that it’s hard to see the actual dangerous stuff. Also, they know these will all get tied up in court battles for years to come. Having 100’s of court cases to fight reduce capacity for resistance.
I think this means all Congressional bathrooms should be women's rooms & everyone should have to use them. I want a camera crew following Nancy Disgrace.
Realistically, no they aren't. Thinking fascists and their sympathizers care about what they said in the past is the biggest mistake you can make.
They will lie, cheat, and abuse any rule. They will just claim you're wrong or that it's a joke or a troll and break the law they themselves wrote anyway
You can't "Gotcha" them, because they KNOW they are lying. They will just laugh at you secretly, because they don't care about truth.
Don't ask them to acknowledge the mistake. Instead, make fun of them as hard as you can. ACTUALLY start adressing them as women (They're fascists, they hate women)
They don't know basic terms like "ova/egg cells" or "spermatozoa/sperm cells", but they're going to pretend they're the ones that understand basic biology?!
Are you female at conception?
No, the sex of the embryo is determined at fertilization and depends on whether the sperm that fertilizes the egg carries either an X or a Y chromosome (sperm only carry one or the other, because they are “haploid” cells). All eggs carry an X, because females are XX.
During early development the gonads of the fetus remain undifferentiated; all fetal genitalia are the same and are phenotypically female. After approximately 6 - 7 weeks of gestation, however, the expression of a gene on the Y chromosome induces changes that result in the development of the testes.
No need to spit out coffee. I have LGBTQ family & friends. Gender is determined at birth (male or female genitalia) it does not determine sexual orientation. My medical information comes from being married to a retired doctor & have a son who is a neuro-diagnostic tech.
And that my children is how you have trans and intersex people. Hormone expression changes the internal and external body and wouldn’t ya know, like all other animals we too are on a spectrum depending on what is expressed and how much.
It's all a bit more complicated than Trump understands. But that's what you get when you have a real estate grifter attempting to wrap their brains around genetics.
He didn't write this. He just signed everything put in front of him. This was written by the Project 2025 people.
Trump is now a rubber stamp for anyone who "supports" him.
So without mandatory gene testing of all unborn children with the attendant risks is... the EO will boil down to 'if you are born with male bits you are male' and 'if you are born with female bits you are female'. And for the few born with intersex bits... watch republican brains explode.
" a developing human starts as “a blank slate” with undifferentiated structures, and although only the X gene expresses first, it isn’t exactly right to say “all humans start as female”" https://factmyth.com/factoids/all-mammals-start-as-female/
Yes but that happens AFTER conception. The genetic material from the sperm isn't incorporated until cell division. There isn't a sex AT conception because there isn't a person. But if they are going to be this stupid then all eggs are female because they contain no Y chromosomes.
Not everything fits into a strict binary. Sexual development is complex and just because a cell is not male doesn't automatically make it female. Likewise there are fully formed adult humans who don't fit neatly into male and female buckets.
Can you show me a source that says conception is a point before the fusion of the egg and sperm into a single cell? I found two definitions, one is when the cells fuse, creating a diploid zygote, and the other, which was new to me, is at a much later point when implantation occurs.
Small and large reproductive cells? Couldn’t be bothered to crack open a biology book or even search the web for reasonable definitions? One could easily argue that we’ll all female as all of our reproductive cells are small.
Females have large reproductive cells (eggs). Males have small ones (sperm/pollen). In some species all the individuals produce reproductive cells of the same size. Not all people produce reproductive cells at all. Reproductive cells don't define a humans gender.
Sex on an individual level is complicated. The executive order denying the existence of intersex people is stupid.
Gamete size is however a pretty standard way to distinguish males and females on a species level. Within any given species eggs are much larger than sperm.
This is science, though, so it'll probably fall on deaf ears.
If you can't convince a person that the earth is older than 5000 years old, or that it's not flat, there's no hope.
If thats true, that means that everyone in America is legally gay too, and all marriages are gay marriages! 😂😂 They'll have to rename it the Gay Old Party!
By the way, what is with all this,”what is a woman?” I didn’t know the background for that statement. Every MAGAt at one time posts that to my comment. Is anyone willing to give the context?
It was also a "gotcha" question from the confirmation hearing of Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson. Someone asked her to define the term "woman," with no clarifying context (the term has specific definitions in specific fields). The most accurate answer is, as with most things, "It's complicated."
They are looking for a "gotcha" moment regarding transgender women. They refuse to believe there's a distinction between biology and social constructs.
So I need to list my gender on government forms as female now? OK. Just following the law...oh wait...that's gone. I am so confused. Am I male or female gender on a government form?!? Do I need to even fill out or comply with government stuff anymore? Asking for a couple hundred million friends🙂
Except.....no. trumps EO says we're all single-celled fertilized eggs with no sex traits or characteristics, and therefore genderless.
Also it's unprovable and therefore unenforceable as it currently stands.
at conception we all have the capacity to develop as either male or female. If the Y chromosome isn’t present, or the fetus has androgen insensitivity, then the default development is to female. We are conceived given the capacity to develop as either sex which is why men have nipples
George, why don’t heterosexual men just except the fact that they’re Christian God put their G spot in their bun hole. Personally, I think they’d be more happy if they just accepted their God’s will.
Not quite. Human embryos start with "bipotential gonads" which differentiate either into ovaries or testes at about 6 weeks — usually, but not always, in the direction indicated by chromosomal XX or XY sex.
So by their rules, we're actually all *androgenous.*
All humans develop the female characteristics first the the male characteristics come in. The Law as Trump signed is considered from conception as a matter of genital presentation not genetic. Therefore you are wrong and Trump is a moron.
This is worse than that. Using the “conception” language, wrong as it is, is another signal for their future plans on abortion (shocking no one I’m sure)
Wow. Your son nailed it. He must be jealous of the fact VP Harris could have been the first Madame President in our history. He is so ego centered that he could feel jealous of that.
Welcome to AI generated executive orders with people too stupid and lazy to fact check because they know their base is too stupid and lazy to fact check because they made sure to make them too stupid and lazy to fact check with fear mongering and distraction.
I bet a whole lot of those macho men in the USA are going to be so shocked that they have to change their personal pronouns to she/her, and then they get in trouble with the 'gender police' for being in Lesbian Relationships with their wives and girlfriends!
My highschool freshmen knew that as soon as he read the order. So we had a good laugh, but I'm thinking it's actually not a mistake and instead a step towards fetal personhood.
So now that everyone is one sex, I gotta tell people they were right to say being bi was a phase. Turns out we’re all just lesbians (or ace, love y’all!)
According to the executive order, my firstborn is- *gasps* -non-binary! There was neither XX nor XY chromosomes in the genetic makeup, and there would be no production of either reproductive cells.
Hmmmm…we’re all ‘unclassified’ then - since there are no genitals present at conception. 6-7 weeks in they begin to develop and initially are undifferentiated. Kinda like placeholders - like clay that isn’t yet shaped into a mug or vase.
Comments
conservatives are demonstrably stupid people. as evidence repeatedly shows.
But sure, you tell them Anime Cat Person. You seem to know more about this.
I'm one of those crazy people that still believes in higher education and listening to those more knowledgeable than ourselves.
Radical thinking these days, I know.
Thanks for sharing in the comments.
This EO effectively defines all humas as females. If The Felon also bans same-sex marriage as expected, then this idiot just will make ALL marriages illegal. See what happens you you put a moron in chage of things.
They will lie, cheat, and abuse any rule. They will just claim you're wrong or that it's a joke or a troll and break the law they themselves wrote anyway
Don't ask them to acknowledge the mistake. Instead, make fun of them as hard as you can. ACTUALLY start adressing them as women (They're fascists, they hate women)
No, the sex of the embryo is determined at fertilization and depends on whether the sperm that fertilizes the egg carries either an X or a Y chromosome (sperm only carry one or the other, because they are “haploid” cells). All eggs carry an X, because females are XX.
Trump is now a rubber stamp for anyone who "supports" him.
Follow the science bs makes me crazy because science shows it’s much more complicated than male & female
Good to know that they consider me female! I should apply to get my documents changed based on this!
There's some prime malicious compliance in doing that.
Now you know why Trump favors this.
🤦
Doin' The Blitzkrieg Bop
But it clearly says at conception you need to belong to a category that produces either large or small gametes you don't have gametes at conception.
Glad they’re incompetent at least.
Gamete size is however a pretty standard way to distinguish males and females on a species level. Within any given species eggs are much larger than sperm.
If you can't convince a person that the earth is older than 5000 years old, or that it's not flat, there's no hope.
It's fire
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Is_a_Woman%3F
Also it's unprovable and therefore unenforceable as it currently stands.
So by their rules, we're actually all *androgenous.*
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK557601/
🤣🥳♀️
MAGA heads exploding all around!
our first.....
... ...
female president?
Girls!