I love paying TurboTax a few hundred bucks every year to figure out how much money I owe the government, which the government already knows, but won't tell me because TurboTax pays legislators to keep the government from telling me. 😻
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voice to text note I took while asking to an irs person in some lobby:
"irs.gov
click file
click free file
explore free guided tax software
8 trusted
free direct file"
Anyone else see this: I submitted tax forms via new free IRS website. They rejected multiple times, because “someone” in the household is receiving some sort of assistance from “some” healthcare program. Nobody is.
Breaks down after many rejects, buys TurboTax. Rejected again, for same thing, but now, also rejected because order of SSN’s in IRS program doesn’t match order of SSN’s in TurboTax, so I must be committing fraud.
Need to create a special PPINPIN id to submit now. Meanwhile, tax day is approaching.
just "do" your own taxes. They're not that hard. or difficult. or complicated. or confusing. or time consuming.
*NOT AN AD*
I get TurboTax free from my brokerage firm. So for me, it's not difficult, complicated, confusing, or time consuming. Just have a week to get it done. THAT IS ALL.
If your not owning a business it a waste of money to use turbo tax. The people oh need it not paying taxes anyway. I would of paid my pet as a employee and got a tax cut for emotional support and use it dog food as the amount I paid them. They health insurance as medical expensive.
Because they don't. Not completely. They can do the basics, but they don't know about any special cases you might fall into.
And if you're the simple case, where they do know, filling out the forms is easy enough and you don't need to pay Turbo Tax.
The payment of tax is not voluntary. Compliance with the income tax law is (deceptively) considered voluntarily, since you have to calculate, file (and pay) your own obligation. Dorky know-it-alls have gone repeatedly to court arguing this moronic distinction without a difference. They always lose.
That’s what I do. I print out the forms from the IRS website, fill them out with a pen, and mail them 2-3 day delivered with signature required so I don’t have to stand in line at the post office for proof I sent them. I also take a picture of them with my phone so there’s a time stamp.
1) This is true only if filing a 1040EZ, if they are hocking that much up to TurboTax they are either way overpaying or need a few of the more complex forms filled out.
2) But essentially all wage, who do not side hustle/own real estate/do silly things with money shouldn’t need to do the rituals, and the IRS should automate it.
This is true! One of my patients volunteers every year to help people do their taxes and has done so for the past 20 years! She LOVES doing it. You couldn’t pay me to help other people do their taxes…I don’t even do my own taxes; I bribe my spouse to do them.
The government knows at least some of what you owe, but they don’t know everything or else tax evasion wouldn’t exist 🤷🏼♂️ a bit of a misconception - they don’t know all of your deductions or some sources of income. Also fuck tax filing software bc it should be free
use one of the government recommended file programs. I don't pay for my federal taxes to ve filed. and only pay $9.99 for state. and they file them at the same time. its very easy
Instead of all the fuckery, we should opt for a flat tax. Everyone pays a set same percentage. No loopholes, no bull shitting around, just pay your percentage. Everyone would pay their fair share, and there wouldn't be any need for billions of dollars to run the IRS. Cheating would be impossible.
The problem with a flat tax is that the costs of living outside of taxes aren't a flat percent. Rich people can afford to pay much higher tax rates and still have more left over afterwards.
Linda, this is wealth inequality and would harm the poor I don't assume this is what you want, but if people see an otherwise intelligent person say "flat tax" they stop listening to anything else that person says.
Progressive taxation is vital to a society free from the tyranny of the wealthy.
If, like me, you still have to do your taxes, I highly recommend the following:
-Do TurboTax through to the very last step. Write down your refund/what you owe. Then don't pay them a dime, don't file, don't complete the transaction.
-Go to the free tax site and file there with those numbers.
It's not really the complexity though. Most citizens don't really interact with the complicated parts. If you work for a pay check and don't make enough to set up tax shelters, there's not really a lot that professionals can do to safe you on taxes with arcane loopholes.
Can't really disagree there, I just find the emphasis on complexity misleading. It both drives people to shell out money to businesses like Turbo Tax and to support efforts to "simplify" the tax code, which usually just wind up being tax cuts for the rich.
"drives people to shell out money to businesses like Turbo Tax and to support efforts to "simplify" the tax code, which usually just wind up being tax cuts for the rich."
Indeed, all counterproductive to good order and discipline.
Decades ago, I worked with finance and Wall Street clients. I saw first hand how taxes made an industry that shouldn’t exist and does nothing to contribute to the good of society.
Send us all bills instead. The stress and nonsense of what has been created is not helpful.
At this point, I’ve decided nothing is broken and everything is working exactly as intended. The problem is the assholes who designed and continue to benefit from it all.
When in residency (100 yrs ago) I had to do my first tax filing. I was so tired, confused & frustrated that one night I just put all my receipts & forms into a Manila envelope w/ a Starbucks gift card & a note pleading for help & sent it to the IRS. They returned my refund & the Starbucks card!
There is new IRS option this year called direct file. You can check online if you qualify. It’s only for very simplified filings, but when I called to get more info, I eventually got to someone who actually knew what they were talking about & was able to help me.
I tried to use IRS free file a few years ago and when it took me to the state tax portion it began giving me offers for other things (like adverts) and then it timed out and the whole thing didn’t go through so I pay H&R Block online $75 and get it done.
Oh, no! I didn’t qualify so I didn’t use it this year, but I find the exploitation of our tax supported institutions & systems when used for the purposes of selling me stuff to enrich private companies offensive. I suppose the feds would say it helps support the program, but I still don’t like it.
Thanks for the info! I didn’t qualify for Direct File so I couldn’t use it.
Incidentally, the predictions of US govt tax income losses due to DOGE attacks and cuts on IRS is chilling. At this rate Trump is going to bankrupt the U.S. before his term is up…or before he crowns himself king.
The only country in the world where this happens. They know what we owe yet make us tell them what we think we owe then penalize us when wrong. What a country.
None of this is true. There are free options. People use TT because they think their taxes are super complex and they'll either get in trouble or lose a lot of money if they try to do it themselves.
If your taxes are simple enough that the govt already knows, just fill out the forms yourself.
Every fucking year after I file my return, the IRS sends me a letter telling me where I messed up and either telling me I owe more or giving me an additional refund.
Like, why can't they do that BEFORE I spend money on TurboTax or an accountant?
In Brazil, the agency equivalent to your IRS provides a software for free. In fact, you can choose the pre-filed version, where they tell you exactly that. For those of us with one source of income, it's a piece of cake.
For 99.9% of Americans, the personal income tax software could be a simple spreadsheet, capable of running on LibreOffice as well as Excel.
And in many countries, since the govt already has your wages and other-income-statements data,
they run it, tell you the results, let you update it if needed.
Right? The IRS could do it all on their end and send us an invoice or a check.. Even brokerages could just report to the IRS for us. It is all a silly show.
Yup. It's what I use.
(Also, I forget what the current Mac spreadsheet is :-)
My wife used Lotus123 to do tax consulting pre-Turbotax;
the hard work is updating the spreadsheet for each year's tax laws,
like the forms, but even a 1985 spreadsheet can do the actual input and calculations just fine.
Fun fact, you can download and print out the forms FREE! Stick a stamp on it and mail it to them. Costs next to nothing, as long as you know what you’re doing. It’s how we used to do taxes.
I am doing this and shocked at the number of forms and schedules I need to complete. It's not easy to figure out if you not used to completing tax forms on your own.
The past few years I have used Turbo Tax, then HR Block. I looked up my saved return from last year, then printed it out in the format “for filing” and it came out on the appropriate forms. I used it as a guide for the current one. Double check your math.
And WE HAD THIS FIGURED OUT AND DONE. The new system was loved by those that have tested it the last couple years. And before it rolls out for everyone, f-ing DOGE kills it and decides to make something new in the MONTH leading up to TAX DAY. Wtf.
Because the other thing was old and needed to be replaced with something shiny and new (and utterly broken).
It's the techbro mindset, everything that came before them is shit and must be torn down and replaced by a thing they'll make by 'moving fast and breaking (more) things'
Yeah, every time I see a complaint like this the person either seems to be getting scammed or has complex enough taxes that the govt doesn’t know what they owe. If all you’re doing is taking the standard deduction/child tax credit and reporting wages/investment income, it’s pretty straightforward
To be fair, I’ve always filed taxes with the standard deduction, and my employers have done the withholding so it’s mostly about my refund. I get that many people have taxes that are way more complex than mine.
But “a few hundred bucks” sounds unbelievable, unless you own a business or something.
The government only knows what has been reported to them. And if your only tax information is things that have already been reported to them, then you don't have to pay to file. If you have a small business they have no idea how much you made, and that's when you need to pay.
When I go back home ( an Asian country), my mom filed tax by filling out a form to authorize the banks to share info with the government for tax. Simple , easy, no extra costs. I often wonder why I immigrant to a country refusing to innovate.
We don’t have to « file taxes ». Our income tax gets deducted automatically and at the end of the tax year, we just get a statement saying how much we paid.
Seeing the system here was one of the most surprising & frustrating aspects of my culture shock.
It's all a scam. There is no reason we shouldn't be able to automatically file on a government secure website where all we do is verify there aren't any missing deductions, etc. They have to find a way to give rich people a cut, TurboTax or H&R Block, etc. Other countries don't do this.
Yup. HMRC does it all online, for free. Only cost is an accountant if you can be arsed to do it yourself.
It also seems far less complicated, but I've never seen the business end of the US tax system so that's just based on Americans rightly moaning about it.
If all this keeps up.. why are we paying fed taxes? He's cutting fed money to states (after supposedly leaving women's health care to the states), raping federal lands, closing or diminishing nat'l parks, stopping public education... GET REAL!
Study the 1040 TurboTax gives you, and next year try Free File Fillable Forms! You have to select which forms, but FFFF does a lot of the math for you. Things get a little complex if you have capital gains, but if you're motivated by spite like me, you can figure it out. https://www.irs.gov/e-file-providers/free-file-fillable-forms
You also have to do your state taxes yourself, which can be a drag. And full disclosure, I did mess up my taxes the first time I used FFFF. Fortunately it was an error in my favor, though, and eventually I got more money back.
Honestly, if you get lucky enough to reach an IRS employee by phone, the answer they give you will not be the same answer another IRS rep gives you on another day. It’s a crapshoot, which is why I have an accountant
We shouldn't even have to file taxes. Take what I owe out of my employment checks. Why should I have to suffer because the IRS is incompetent in taking out or knowing exactly what I owe? It's bullshit
Look, I know you're trying to help or whatever but I owe minimum $6k every year. I am not rich. I am middle class. They take from my check the maximum amount for taxes. My point is that they are massively incompetent if I still owe $6k+. And no amount of deductibles is going to reverse that.
Weird thing, Biden had already implemented a program to do just that for us! But R's let the felon override that. One of the many things he's fucked up.
The point though is that you shouldn't have to file at all when they already know everything they need to. They should just send you a bill or a refund check and then if *you* disagree because you have more specific stuff to declare you can file an amendment.
I assumed, sorry didn't mean to come off differently. It just bothers me that the cost of filing is the main talking point when the unnecessary complexity for 99% of the population doesn't get enough attention because that's how the for-pay filers justify charging anything in the first place.
I tried to use it this year, though there is an income limit, and there was something about only 20 ststes accepted it for state taxes. Not complaining, they need to keep it going and expanding.
They got me with that too- I saw a bunch of stuff saying it was gone and went with TurboTax this year. I think what might have happened is they can't remove the free federal tax aid, but they can work to make you think it's gone.
There is usually a way to download a pdf of your filled out return and then you can file for free online with your state and the it's. You just have to fill in the boxes manually but that is worth it to me.
I used to use CreditKarma, and loved them because they were genuinely free for everything. And then fucking TurboTax bought them out, and now of course CK charges too. I'm so glad I found out about this other site...and that I don't have state taxes, so it genuinely IS free.
I say this every year
But was hopeful with the additional funding to the IRS and the possible roll out of a way to file taxes directly…..now all of that will be cut.
All of this could of course be eliminated if they just simplified the tax code….went to flat tax
Seriously?
I thought you could look all this up on the IRS tax tables, which are (or were) posted on their website.
(Unless you have a complicated return, of course.)
I can tell you companies like turbo tax are also used by people who do "creative"accounting on their https://taxes.vet bills, inflated donations,inflated medical bills,etc.i know several ppl that do this yearly.yes,they could get audited but the probability is low.
Huh 🤔 No shit, I never realized that. I just figured they were giving us the opportunity to cheat so they could make more money for the prison system and treasury for give aways to the 1%. Thanks for telling me.
I agree with your sentiment, but wonder about the amount to Turbotax. I pay about $75 for a deluxe state/federal HR Block.
TurbTax, had issues 2 yrs in a row. Best ever was Parsons Technology going back to late 1980s, but they sold out to TurbTax. Will look at TaxHawk other poster mentioned.
For reference when I get paid the tax is already removed I never have to worry about it. At the end of the year I can request a tax return which is usually €100 or less if I've been over charged or very rarely I'll owe €20 if I've been undercharged
When I get paid they take tax out too, I claim 0 so they take the max amount of tax. They even take out extra now because ever since trumps first tax cuts I have owed at least an additional 4K-7k every year when I file. Middle class is paying for billionaires tax cuts.
Every year here in Ireland we get tax credits that reduce our tax, everyone gets 3k baseline and I get to claim flat rate which is another credit to pay for work uniform and tools
I ask the same question whenever I see this complaint & have never gotten a straight answer. Of course it should be easier to file taxes in this country, but even the most expensive Turbo Tax is only like $100 and for business filings that, if that’s your case you should probably have an accountant
Consider dumping TT as it's yet another tech disruptor intended to put independents out of business & ultimately control the market. Use a local accountant instead.
This concept is inaccurate for people that itemize. If you take a standard deduction, you can file for free on a number of different sites that aren’t TurboTax.
I’ve been using FreeTaxUSA for the past four years. There’s no fee for the federal return preparation and they only charge $14.99 for the state return. TurboTax, TaxSlayer - all scams to dupe people out of their money.
Yeah I did FreeTaxUSA (it sounds like such a scam but it's actually with the IRS) so much better than TurboTax with regard to ease of use and even it's ad-like add-ons are so much cheaper than TurboTax. Fuck @intuit-turbotax.bsky.social
I've been using FreeTaxUSA as well the last few years. Always free (with some occasional upsell nudges) and super easy to use. Shitty, bloated tax software just shouldn't be necessary...except maybe if your taxes are extremely complex. In that case I'd rather have a human do them for me. 😀
That's the Robodebt scheme Australia's last conservative government used against the unemployed.
The original system had people at the end to catch all the mistakes, but they removed them and let the computer go wild. The result was 1,200 people committed suicide. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robodebt_scheme
Oh no Max! Go to SmartAssets free tax calc so you’ll be able to plan in advance, then if able use the free IRS EZ Tax filing, it may be free or cost around $40.
Cash app is free for any income (for now), handles capital gains and such, and is also free for one state (not sure about multiple states). Gov solution would be better but this works fine
They seem super scammy. They & TT are all about the greed. I think H&R block got in trouble a few years back for telling people they'd give them their refund right away and then making it a high interest short term loan. That should've ended them but this is the US so of course it made them stronger
TIL! Had no idea, I always thought it was stupid that they were just like “nope, try again!” If you did your taxes wrong, that’s why I started using turbo tax to begin with!
They won’t, you still have to pay your taxes by April 15. The extension is only on your paperwork. More than half of our clients used to do extensions till October. But they still had to pay their taxes by April 15.
I don’t think anyone actually works at the IRS anymore, just fill in totally random numbers and write a cheque for $13:67 and see if anyone notices. I bet they don’t.
My sister told my son to fudge his résumé, and he did and he got a job he would never otherwise have gotten, and because of his background, he's doing much better than everybody else with their regular degrees. (But that's not government. They might check!)
Because the IRS knows how much you owe. The system will flag your return and you will get a not so friendly bill in the mail for your taxes + interest.
It's like, IRS, "time to pay your taxes" Me, "ok, how much do I owe?" IRS,"you have to figure it out yourself" Me,"ok,how about $20?" IRS, "no, that's not right. We say $1.4m"
Just another way to rip us off. IRS knows how much we owe & could bill us BUT human error causes mistakes that rack up penalties & fees.
It’s Wmart paying employees unlivable wages forcing them on benefits. Wmart then receives govt subsidies 4 employees on benefits that shop @Wmart. 1 big grift
Comments
"irs.gov
click file
click free file
explore free guided tax software
8 trusted
free direct file"
Need to create a special PPINPIN id to submit now. Meanwhile, tax day is approaching.
*NOT AN AD*
I get TurboTax free from my brokerage firm. So for me, it's not difficult, complicated, confusing, or time consuming. Just have a week to get it done. THAT IS ALL.
I usually then quickly eyeball the math to verify no glitches and as a double check...
Exactly, you clearly know what i owe, or am owed, why the annual shitshow.
And if you're the simple case, where they do know, filling out the forms is easy enough and you don't need to pay Turbo Tax.
You could use their computers, go to the irs website and print the forms (10cents/copy)
0-23.8%max no social security or Medicare.
The poor pay zero now so a flat tax means they pay.
The rich workers go from 37%to a flat 20??? Great for them.
Progressive taxation is vital to a society free from the tyranny of the wealthy.
-Do TurboTax through to the very last step. Write down your refund/what you owe. Then don't pay them a dime, don't file, don't complete the transaction.
-Go to the free tax site and file there with those numbers.
An entire segment of business that should not exist.
1/2
People with wealth can fund professionals to understand it and work through arcane loopholes to reduce their tax due.
Most citizens aren't able to do that and end up paying an oversized share.
Working as intended.
2/2
Working as intended.
Indeed, all counterproductive to good order and discipline.
By design.
Send us all bills instead. The stress and nonsense of what has been created is not helpful.
The complexity obscures the purposeful intent of tilting the outcomes in favor of the wealthy.
https://www.aarp.org/money/taxes/aarp-taxaide/locations/
There is new IRS option this year called direct file. You can check online if you qualify. It’s only for very simplified filings, but when I called to get more info, I eventually got to someone who actually knew what they were talking about & was able to help me.
Incidentally, the predictions of US govt tax income losses due to DOGE attacks and cuts on IRS is chilling. At this rate Trump is going to bankrupt the U.S. before his term is up…or before he crowns himself king.
If your taxes are simple enough that the govt already knows, just fill out the forms yourself.
Like, why can't they do that BEFORE I spend money on TurboTax or an accountant?
And in many countries, since the govt already has your wages and other-income-statements data,
they run it, tell you the results, let you update it if needed.
(Also, I forget what the current Mac spreadsheet is :-)
My wife used Lotus123 to do tax consulting pre-Turbotax;
the hard work is updating the spreadsheet for each year's tax laws,
like the forms, but even a 1985 spreadsheet can do the actual input and calculations just fine.
https://www.irs.gov/filing/irs-direct-file-for-free
It's the techbro mindset, everything that came before them is shit and must be torn down and replaced by a thing they'll make by 'moving fast and breaking (more) things'
But “a few hundred bucks” sounds unbelievable, unless you own a business or something.
We don’t have to « file taxes ». Our income tax gets deducted automatically and at the end of the tax year, we just get a statement saying how much we paid.
Seeing the system here was one of the most surprising & frustrating aspects of my culture shock.
It also seems far less complicated, but I've never seen the business end of the US tax system so that's just based on Americans rightly moaning about it.
You used to be able to.
Government knows the numbers and tells me for free.
Maybe you have a lot of complicated sources of income.
I might have been wrong! It looks like it is still good for 2024?
https://www.irs.gov/file-your-taxes-for-free
Thanks again!
It truly is unclear to me if it's still available. I thought it got axed.
You have to go all in, send the info to all taxpayers.
And kill lobbies for extra points
But was hopeful with the additional funding to the IRS and the possible roll out of a way to file taxes directly…..now all of that will be cut.
All of this could of course be eliminated if they just simplified the tax code….went to flat tax
I thought you could look all this up on the IRS tax tables, which are (or were) posted on their website.
(Unless you have a complicated return, of course.)
We all know you can file for free. That is not the point here.
TurbTax, had issues 2 yrs in a row. Best ever was Parsons Technology going back to late 1980s, but they sold out to TurbTax. Will look at TaxHawk other poster mentioned.
https://www.aarp.org/money/taxes/aarp-taxaide/locations/
(Not that Intuit's lobbying practices are good or anything. I'm just trying figure out where you spent so much money.)
The original system had people at the end to catch all the mistakes, but they removed them and let the computer go wild. The result was 1,200 people committed suicide.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robodebt_scheme
That said, it certainly would make sense if the government could provide "here's the info we already have" to start with, rather than blank forms.
(Your point is still well-taken, I'm just quibbling the details 😉)
My sister told my son to fudge his résumé, and he did and he got a job he would never otherwise have gotten, and because of his background, he's doing much better than everybody else with their regular degrees. (But that's not government. They might check!)
It’s Wmart paying employees unlivable wages forcing them on benefits. Wmart then receives govt subsidies 4 employees on benefits that shop @Wmart. 1 big grift
https://www.aarp.org/money/taxes/aarp-taxaide/locations/