Giving some people benefits they don’t need is cheaper than making people prove they need it. - ThreadSky

rockshrimp.bsky.social • 173 days ago

Giving some people benefits they don’t need is cheaper than making people prove they need it.

Reposted from Bethany Albertson

What’s your thing that shouldn’t be controversial in today’s politics but somehow is?

I want people to vote.

Comments

luxxsilverbeard.bsky.social•173 days ago

It’s also much more effective delivery than weeding out the odd one who doesn’t.

lawcreep.bsky.social•173 days ago

Every single time. But what if the wrong people get it? Not not someone like Elong Musk or Jeff Bezos, the *wrong* people, you know?

(We should do UBI)

jamesfbrophy.bsky.social•172 days ago

Was involved in defeating an amendment to disability payments in ireland and we found that the increased monitoring they wanted to introduce over the hardest system to get payments on was more expensive than the payment increases they wanted to lure people to new payments with.

jamesfbrophy.bsky.social•172 days ago

After increases the payments would have still been below inflation.

thekirz.bsky.social•173 days ago

Why do we give people a mortgage tax deduction and subsidize corn production, but not a dime to make fresh produce more affordable?

savluvx.bsky.social•173 days ago

What would happen if we stopped giving the subsidy to the farmers, and gave it to the consumers, instead? This is a fascinating thought- thank you!

thekirz.bsky.social•172 days ago

The problem is that we don't subsidize farmers to grow fresh produce. In fact current policies punish farmers who try to stop growing commodities to switch to fruits and veggies.

thekirz.bsky.social•172 days ago

Subsidizing inputs is almost cheaper than outputs.

savluvx.bsky.social•172 days ago

UGH I knew this was going to be the answer UGH

bexone.bsky.social•173 days ago

Or even distributed that money to truck/market garden farmers rather than paying ag megacorps to plant half of Iowa in corn while also paying them to NOT plant the OTHER half

thekirz.bsky.social•172 days ago

It's worse than people know. 96% of farmland in the US is used to grow commodity grains, cotton and soy. Mostly for animal feed, cooking oil, and fuel ethanol.

subtlefire.bsky.social•173 days ago

lobbyists

thekirz.bsky.social•172 days ago

Specifically crop insurance, fertilizer, pesticide, and GMO seed lobbyists.
They're using tax payer dollars to create a food system to efficiently give everyone diabetes.

stevenjwhite.bsky.social•172 days ago

Maybe they co-own pharma companies. Just a thought.

thekirz.bsky.social•172 days ago

Monsanto was bought by Bayer.

stevenjwhite.bsky.social•172 days ago

There it is.

bijhan.bsky.social•172 days ago

That's reality here in Uruguay. All Uruguayans agree that when the government implements some sort of benefit, there's no selection process to prove who needs it and who doesn't. Theoretically a rich person could use employment services. But... it would be an intro-level job. So, who cares?

apearlma.bsky.social•173 days ago

Drives me bonkers. Every kid should get a good solid meal in school is just such an easy thing to do. And yet...

lissaharris.bsky.social•173 days ago

my kid’s school has universal free meals because of hard work by local advocates to prove we qualify for USDA funding for being broke as shit as a community

and it fucking rocks, universal free lunch is basic decency

roosefella.bsky.social•173 days ago

in NYC schools they can get 2 meals/day, right?

it does result in too much food waste, but it's worth it, I think.

roosefella.bsky.social•173 days ago

not sure, I dont have kids.
this is only based on what friends have said.

dysamoria.com•172 days ago

I doubt there’s even half as much food waste as in an average corporate grocery store.

amyamybobamy.bsky.social•173 days ago

It's so good for families & kids that it doesn't make sense to force families to jump through hoops to prove they need it. I'd think local farms, etc. could benefit from the steady income as well.

I assume there's pressure from whatever disgusting entities are profiting from processing fees & etc.

djweedpizza.gobirds.online•172 days ago

I want to start a political party called “People Should Have the Things They Need” and set a stopwatch to see how long it takes for someone to try assassinating me.

timlagor.bsky.social•172 days ago

It'll be at least a couple of days because they'll want to try calling you an Anti Semite first and see if that sticks

lovesdaryl.bsky.social•172 days ago

Let‘s make it an international one, I‘m in. They won’t get all of us.

captainsidecar.bsky.social•173 days ago

It's almost as if it's not actually about the economics of it.....

professorfurious.bsky.social•172 days ago

When you have more money than you can possibly need, the only thing left to acquire is power over others.

savluvx.bsky.social•173 days ago

OMFG I spend way too much time thinking about the inane inefficiency, cruelty and drudgery everyone at every level is subjected to in any public benefit. Bewildering.

UGH!

ponderbooks.com•173 days ago

Yup, it's why I'm such a fan of a UBI
Everyone gets what they need, no questions asked
Otherwise it's an endless treadmill of want and it gets in the way of getting real, meaningful jobs, as the UBI experiments have all shown.

savluvx.bsky.social•173 days ago

100% correct!!!

skyblu.bsky.social•172 days ago

The USA needs postal banking and a monthly ubi deposited there. Both are cheap net goods that can undo do much stupid means testing bureaucracy and private profiteering

savluvx.bsky.social•172 days ago

Care to say more? That's a fascinating thought...

skyblu.bsky.social•172 days ago

I mean, it seems fairly straightforward? Postal banking set up at birth and available to anyone, and ubi direct into every month? I like a good universal.

savluvx.bsky.social•172 days ago

It's so simple...link your social security and do your taxes and have a passport POOF when you need it. Plus if you are military, disabled...or need a library card...credit cards can go kick rocks, too ..plus and and...

We are much too cynical to ever even try something this earnest.

professorfurious.bsky.social•172 days ago

I was behind someone in a grocery line who was taking a long time. I went from puzzled to fascinated to appalled as I realized the checker was helping the woman navigate what purchases were covered by her public benefits. It was a pointless nightmare for everyone involved, the essence of oppression.

ponderbooks.com•173 days ago

💯

lentilbeans.bsky.social•173 days ago

Careful, this kind of thinking leads to the administrative simplicity of a universal minimum wage.

kevychristian.bsky.social•172 days ago

I much prefer a system give some people benefits they don't deserve to ensure everyone who needs them gets them, rather than a system that denies benefits to people who need them to make sure nobody gets benefits they don't deserve. No system is perfect. We have to pick a side to err on.

astrophic.bsky.social•173 days ago

People have literally died having their sick benefits taken away and not only has the process not saved a penny it costs millions

aliceinkeynes.bsky.social•172 days ago

But you can't really put a price tag on the intensity of the spite boner stories like that give the people in one of our two major parties.

jenniferholton7.bsky.social•172 days ago

Oddly, these are the measures demanded by opponents of "big" government, but they necessitate much, much larger government, are *more*, not less, susceptible to fraud/waste/abuse, and benefit fewer people.

df1.bsky.social•172 days ago

Benefits should be universal. Means test on the tax side. Let Warren Buffet get free Medicare and tax him at 90 percent.

judigunn.bsky.social•172 days ago

I asked this thirty years ago when I worked for a lawyer who helped ppl appeal their SSDI benefit denials. "Why don't they just give everybody benefits instead of spending more money on staff fighting the applications and then having to pay your fees too?"

apardoe.bsky.social•172 days ago

Also, taxes are a very easy way to claw back benefits I don't need. Give everyone, say, $2k/month UBI. Tax everyone another $24k/year. Let normal deductions and exemptions separate those who needed it from those who didn't.

emperorblargus.bsky.social•172 days ago

As with the Winter Fuel thing in the UK - it's literally a deserved tax break to older people. If you want to rebalance it just up the Higher tax band half a percentage point or something.

emperorblargus.bsky.social•172 days ago

Or you know... raise national insurance to 1.5% (that's social security to you in America) at the Higher tax band and above.

borgly.bsky.social•173 days ago

OK but some benefits might go to Those Other People.

professorfurious.bsky.social•172 days ago

Evergreen:

logan.hater.club•173 days ago

To put it another way that some wonks might grok: Means testing a benefit is consistently more expensive AND less effective than just not means testing at all

dysamoria.com•172 days ago

As a person who receives regular demands to comply with means testing, as well as seeing unnecessary and inconsistent mailings showcasing how irrationally frequently the “rules change” for what I’m receiving, it’s self-evident that the bureaucracy is stupidly expensive.

rieve.bsky.social•172 days ago

Was just talking about something similar this morning as I spent hours proving I'm poor and disabled enough to need help.

https://bsky.app/profile/rieve.bsky.social/post/3l4nxsaluij2u

drsaddison.bsky.social•173 days ago

The only time Republicans get worried about "rich people getting something they don't deserve" is when it's kids and free school lunch.

jftitone.bsky.social•172 days ago

Yep. Means testing is 🗑️.

timlagor.bsky.social•172 days ago

..and the way to get them back from people who don't need them* is through progressive taxation.

* if you must

carolhmack.com•173 days ago

I agree!

hugoyyo.bsky.social•173 days ago

But for some it's about *principle*.
And it's like this all the fucking time:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/12/tfl-crackdown-fare-dodgers-cost-money-london1/

professorfurious.bsky.social•172 days ago

Cops in NYC sprayed two subway cars with bullets to capture a $2.90 fare evader. It's not about the money, and the "principle" is reminding the populace of the impunity of the upper classes and its enforcers of oppression.

gbaji.bsky.social•172 days ago

You can't put a price on compliance.

lovesdaryl.bsky.social•172 days ago

And it’s not even „just“ the money. I hate that governments everywhere make people in need of support jump through hoops on top of having to go through whatever causes them to need support in the first place. I‘d rather my taxes go to some people who don’t need them, instead of this cruelty.

professorfurious.bsky.social•172 days ago

Means testing is the hobgoblin of little minds.

kawotter.bsky.social•172 days ago

It's also morally superior/correct to ensure everyone has what they need even if some people get more than they need, as opposed to a system which ensures some people cannot get what they need at all.

alopexstudios.bsky.social•172 days ago

Trying to explain to my boss yesterday that some restaurants and grocery stores would rather throw food away than donate it because of stupid ass-backwards stigmas about “undeserving” poor people. It’s infuriating.

shamr0cker.bsky.social•172 days ago

Reallocation of resources and funds away from law enforcement

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