Muting fascism will not make it go away. It's like pretending that the raging fire in your kitchen isn't happening and that if you just shut the door on it - the inferno will disappear. WRONG. It WILL burn your house down. - ThreadSky

ottoenglish.bsky.social • 32 days ago

Muting fascism will not make it go away.

It's like pretending that the raging fire in your kitchen isn't happening and that if you just shut the door on it - the inferno will disappear.

WRONG.

It WILL burn your house down.

Comments

flashling.bsky.social•32 days ago

Muting? Sorry

ottoenglish.bsky.social•32 days ago

Yes. Muting it.

flashling.bsky.social•32 days ago

Ok sorry perhaps just one of those things that I grew up in Leicestershire with an e in it and it was an unknown word like that. No slight intended.

thecrezz.bsky.social•32 days ago

There is a difference though between not talking at all about fascism and not promoting (directly or indirectly) through sharing a fascist voice.

vatskills.bsky.social•28 days ago

I thought muting was the whole point of this platform.

sheffieldskate.bsky.social•32 days ago

Start by figuring out why people accross the west are voting for it and more worryingly especially in Germany why young voters are. Just calling far right parties fascist isn't enough....

redballoonsue.bsky.social•31 days ago

Because they get sucked into the messages the far right give out at the start to win them over. They offer change and better things for the young. The young have no recollection of the past and their grandparents who do are dying off. It's easy to prey on the young.

sheffieldskate.bsky.social•31 days ago

The centre right and centre left have offered young people austerity and housing shortages caused by perpetual neoliberalism

redballoonsue.bsky.social•24 days ago

The far right is not the answer to any of that!

robbyred.bsky.social•32 days ago

I can get coverage elsewhere and it stops the madness here where every other post is about the president or Elon

robbyred.bsky.social•32 days ago

Yes it’s shit, yes it’s fascism but they want you to continue to discuss them. They want you to be upset , they want to dominate the media landscape even if it’s negative,

ottoenglish.bsky.social•32 days ago

Oh I agree. But simply ignoring it all is very dangerous

robbyred.bsky.social•32 days ago

I’m not, plenty leaks through but you have to look after your mental health and not react to every post.

ceruleanman.bsky.social•31 days ago

Starmer & Labour are building up some big future problems if they continue to ignore Musk, Trump, Farage and Reform. It's the faint-hearted anxious risk-averse lawyer in him.

jackmoxley.bsky.social•31 days ago

I'll keep to your analogy. Giving it oxygen doesn't help either.

ottoenglish.bsky.social•31 days ago

It's naive and even arrogant in the extreme to assume that if one group of people stop talking about it then it will simply go away.

jackmoxley.bsky.social•31 days ago

Not quite what I'm assuming. Im suggesting that continually platforming these people over everyone else is part of the issue. Which is how we ended up with bojo as PM. And frankly lifted farage out of his sewer.

lenecharlotten.bsky.social•31 days ago

NAZI in the White House American MAGA 🇺🇸
You can NOT use anything from Hitlers /Nazi identitet in a democratic free world .
But it is not difficult to see Hitlers
Color ⚫️🔴
Rally with bully and lie talk
Insults, hate , revenge and easy words to remember on repeat https://bsky.app/profile/nomadmatt.bsky.social/post/3lgbhie67ns2l

maldenrosselle.bsky.social•32 days ago

USA has been taken over that their military fell on beaches to protect from happening

ilikecaketoo.bsky.social•31 days ago

Exposing them, taking their mask off and showing who they are and the horrors and bigotry they stand for is the best policy. But I have to say, orgs like the BBC giving the likes of Farage an ‘expert’ voice does nothing to help.

catiomiles.bsky.social•32 days ago

The firefighters ie the media and in particular the BBC and the so called progressive government unfortunately are assisting the fire by fanning the flames.

So we need to sort out the government and the BBC first to do their jobs.

That’s how we fight it.

federateuk.bsky.social•31 days ago

The key is to address why the house is so flammable in the first place.

mrhairyman.bsky.social•28 days ago

Supporting this Labour government feels very much like pretending there's no risk and all is normal.
As you say, fascism needs to actively opposed.

deputybradlaw.bsky.social•32 days ago

What are we supposed to do? You can’t argue with them or make them see reason. You can call them out and point out the irrationality of their arguments, but you won’t dent their beliefs (on SM).

Isn’t it best just to starve them of the oxygen they need?

joshalexcairo.bsky.social•28 days ago

People want to enjoy these platforms.

People want an escape from the endless discourse, which no matter the stance, disenfranchises millions when it's in their hands all the time. This is even more true for minorities, for whom these platforms are often the only connection in lieu of real ones...

joshalexcairo.bsky.social•28 days ago

... muting and blocking accounts doesn't mean people are shutting out entire ideologies, or completely disengaging. It means they are wanting to use this space differently to you, and insisting they use it as you do makes you part of the problem.

joshalexcairo.bsky.social•28 days ago

It's not your fault these things exist because you talk about them, but it is your fault if people who largely agree with you politically end up disenfranchised or alienated, because you looked down on how they chose to engage on social media - which as has been proven repeatedly, is a bubble.

joshalexcairo.bsky.social•28 days ago

If you prefer a platform where the idea of blocking people is discouraged and borderline illegally eradicated, I have an alternative for you.

ottoenglish.bsky.social•28 days ago

You make good points

alanjstedman.bsky.social•31 days ago

Agree 100%

To see one Times political journalist deny the salute was frankly horrifying

My parents would have told him a few truths. They lived through and in my father's case served 1939-45. They knew exactly what that war was about and told us so. To rid the world of evil

d3rrick.bsky.social•31 days ago

We saw what we saw. And the "political journalists" who try to deny the salute are revealing their own political sympathies.

alanjstedman.bsky.social•31 days ago

Exactly so Derrick

alanjstedman.bsky.social•31 days ago

My bad, it was Pickard of the FT not the Times

alanjstedman.bsky.social•31 days ago

Seems like some people didn't see this

To use the JC as a defense given what's happened there recently with Mr Gibb of BBC fame getting involved I think further shreds his reputation

https://bsky.app/profile/pickardje.bsky.social/post/3lgb24j7aus2r

katyamberley.bsky.social•31 days ago

Thanks to your father for his service.

alanjstedman.bsky.social•31 days ago

🙏🏻

senorjones.bsky.social•31 days ago

Which journalist? Thanks

alanjstedman.bsky.social•31 days ago

https://bsky.app/profile/pickardje.bsky.social/post/3lgb24j7aus2r

senorjones.bsky.social•31 days ago

Thanks Alan

alanjstedman.bsky.social•31 days ago

Damn I've just clocked I said Times when it is of course the FT! 🤦🏼

alanjstedman.bsky.social•31 days ago

👍🏻

I have now attached it to the original post as others may have missed it

stephenstroud.bsky.social•32 days ago

And, you weren’t able to afford the increased insurance premium.

wanderingdutchman.bsky.social•27 days ago

We should cut off its oxygen (media).

laughing-john.bsky.social•32 days ago

You don't ignore the fire, you contain it, and you certainly don't fan the flames. I mean Farage was everywhere..

laughing-john.bsky.social•32 days ago

Obviously different times now..

razzamatazz72.bsky.social•27 days ago

Leaving twitter muted a lot of far right / fascistic voices for me and I don't feel like any of them are financially benefitting from engagement with me any more

sabashuali.bsky.social•31 days ago

As an ex evacuation Marshall, I take issue with this statement! You should close, doors and windows to stop the fire spreading and minimise oxygen supply. At least until the fire service arrive…

ottoenglish.bsky.social•31 days ago

Fair

sirzero82.bsky.social•31 days ago

ben1908.bsky.social•27 days ago

I had to scroll waaaay to far to find this. c'mon people....

nickybshaw.bsky.social•31 days ago

The young have no real reference. They will be myopic. Children of WWII survives were constantly warned!

The unthinkable (for us) just happened. 🇺🇸 Will be, for foreseeable future, a powerful fascist led country & bully (or Worse) to the World.
#TheWorldTurned

paulbigland.bsky.social•31 days ago

Indeed. It's why I'm maintaining a Twitter account - just to retreat stuff that gets up the fascists noses.

tonybirdlondon.bsky.social•32 days ago

Giving them the oxygen of publicity isn't helpful either.

You fight fascism by fighting the root cause. Huge inequality in the UK.
For the last 15 years the rich got massively richer and the rest of us got poorer while public services were decimated so life got harder

jayanne.bsky.social•31 days ago

While those in power continue with the RW neo- liberal politics which exacerbate inequality .

ockamsrazor.bsky.social•31 days ago

https://bsky.app/profile/ockamsrazor.bsky.social/post/3lgdcrkgbj22n

ottoenglish.bsky.social•31 days ago

So true

johnkb.bsky.social•27 days ago

Otto’s right - the more we’ve discussed Farage and UKIP, the more they’ve faded into the background 👍.

johnkb.bsky.social•27 days ago

The hubris is thinking your engagement is helping

johnkb.bsky.social•27 days ago

Who’s muting Facism?

If Lewis rejects one interview, if Farage gets a bit less air time, it “ muting fascism”

Bollocks

johnkb.bsky.social•28 days ago

If you think you’ve identified a noticeable lack of promotion of right wing ideas I’d be interested to see further evidence

tobifrenzen.bsky.social•32 days ago

When dealing with fascists, you certainly can't win the argument by listening to "their point of view" or trying reason or persuasion.

How do you put out a fire? You have three options: You starve it of Oxygen, or Fuel, or Heat.

It doesn't go away by arguing with it or being kind to it!

skyewhatsthe411.bsky.social•26 days ago

💯

catiomiles.bsky.social•32 days ago

Excellent ☝️

jayanne.bsky.social•31 days ago

BBC fed Farage for years ….had him on speed dial it seemed , gave him all the attention he wanted .

redballoonsue.bsky.social•31 days ago

They still are!

johnfw.bsky.social•32 days ago

sindalott.bsky.social•31 days ago

Sure will.

ians.chat•32 days ago

The problem is, they've developed a way for the fire to have a special filter, so that the water never reaches the fire, but oxygen and more petrol still gets there.

schrencki.bsky.social•32 days ago

It will be coming from everywhere. Stopping people from rubbing your face in it here won't stop fascism but it might stop you from going under. It's not like interactions will change your or their ideologies.

ottoenglish.bsky.social•32 days ago

It's not about the extremes it's about the normalisation of extremism. That begins with all of us and you can shift the dial

vintaget.bsky.social•28 days ago

Trouble is discussions on extremism seem to bring out extremism in some people!
A first world democracy problem..

schrencki.bsky.social•28 days ago

I believe it would have come out in them anyway as they must be disposed towards it.

schrencki.bsky.social•32 days ago

Yeah we call it out when we see it and we try to hold organisations like the BBC to account in their reporting.

Fascists coming on to my feed are getting blocked though.

stevedoherty.bsky.social•28 days ago

I’ve learned, today that muting The Archers DOES work, however.

speccytwat.bsky.social•28 days ago

Also on my banned list.

That twinklydinkly faffing music… *shudders*

stevedoherty.bsky.social•28 days ago

The Sunday theme? An absolute cacophony.

speccytwat.bsky.social•28 days ago

Emphasis on the ‘cac(k)’.

ottoenglish.bsky.social•28 days ago

The radio show or the Pressburger Powell partnership?

stevedoherty.bsky.social•28 days ago

The radio show. Definitely not P&P.

yrotitna.bsky.social•31 days ago

And apologising for fascists as on Labour MP did won’t make them like you or be your friend. Really don’t understand wtf is wrong with Labour at the moment.

yrotitna.bsky.social•31 days ago

Labour need to w recognise this and stop thinking that they can moderate Trump.

liambrannon.bsky.social•32 days ago

Maybe you should stand for election?

mrgrahamoh.bsky.social•32 days ago

I've said it for a while now.

Silence is Violence.

No, we can't agree to disagree.

No, your opinion isn't worth the same as mine if you can't evidence it.

The facts don't care about your feelings.

I'm not over reacting, your being a vile bigot.

Call the fuckers out.

No more Mr nice lefty.

ottoenglish.bsky.social•32 days ago

10 years ago I had people telling me that Nigel Farage and UKIP were "my fault" because I kept talking about them.

If I ignored UKIP (so I was told) it would vanish... along with Farage.

Er... nope.

stuafcb.bsky.social•32 days ago

There is a balance somewhere. People *have* amplified Farage and UKIP by platforming them and repeating their words in criticism. They need to be called out but also marginalised. I do not have the answers as to how to maintain that balance, especially in this media landscape though.

roybennett.bsky.social•28 days ago

Well lets put it this way every fire needs oxygen, and publicity/ exposure is oxygen to them, go figure. 10 years later he has had lots of oxygen, and look where we are the house is fully on fire, now what ? Feed it more oxygen being your answer ?

korrbard.bsky.social•32 days ago

The big issue has always been - and continues to be (although fighting a losing battle now) - platforming and framing.

Even if individuals ignore what's happening, we've had a solid 15 years of traditional media giving these frankly batshit politicians equal airtime and sanewashing their ideas.

korrbard.bsky.social•32 days ago

There was never any real chance to 'ignore' them and hope they'd go away - even if individuals didn't engage with their ideas, most people still saw Farage getting weekly slots on all major channels - barely being challenged - for decades despite being part of a tiny political party.

veryoddrequest.bsky.social•32 days ago

That's exactly what would have happened if the BBC specifically ignored him and stopped inviting him on. Specifically he wouldn't have had any real platform. Reality

satiricalplanet.bsky.social•31 days ago

From Enoch Powell’s ‘Rivers of Blood’ to Nigel Farage’s pint-fuelled Brexit banter, explore Britain’s chaotic soap opera of populism, tabloids, and nostalgia. Grab your tea—this one’s boiling over!
https://aiwillybillhuman.substack.com/p/rivers-of-blood-tea-and-misplaced

averdade351.bsky.social•32 days ago

Quite right...

sailorali.teamlh.social•32 days ago

UKIP is Tony Blairs fault. You can map the rise of UKIP with the expansion of the EU.

Blair never introduced any employment laws to protect British employees or EU workers from exploitation! He allowed capitism to set the rules!

ottoenglish.bsky.social•32 days ago

I don't think it's as simple as that. Scapegoating one person and one set of policies is easy.

sailorali.teamlh.social•32 days ago

Real world examples..
Im a seafarer. In 2006 I was made redundant, replaced by polish crew. In 2009 I was made redundant, replaced by Romanian crew. All allowed under EU rules. Never happened to french seafarers because France legislated for the workers.

Blair didn't!

sailorali.teamlh.social•32 days ago

I grew up in a mining town. It is as simple as that. We lost our identity after the mines closed. The North was left behind while and the south & London prospered. Look at Sports Direct, exploited Eastern Europeans in deprived towns. No employment laws to stop them doing it!

adhdmf.bsky.social•32 days ago

Remind me, who closed the mines and all the inequalities that stemmed from that?

sailorali.teamlh.social•31 days ago

Of course tory Thatcher closed the mines. The tories were voted out in the late 90s & Labour (allegedly the party for working people) did nothing in 13 years to protect workers. No employment laws to protect British worker & stop exploitation of cheaper Eastern Europeans.

gfrose.bsky.social•31 days ago

Yes. And that the old Tea Party / EDL love-in has finally borne fruit is very worrying. Maybe all this stuff doesn't just "go away" when we stop talking about it.

johnkb.bsky.social•27 days ago

Otto kept talking about Nigel Farage and UKIP didn’t disappear

QED👍

johnkb.bsky.social•27 days ago

You did well - don’t them them say otherwise 👍

johnkb.bsky.social•27 days ago

Bollocks - Farage is being “over-platformed”. Creating a straw man to knock over doesn’t excuse the idea that perhaps the Lib Dem’s or the Greens deserve more exposure

bradkieser.bsky.social•32 days ago

We do need strong laws, the full Leveson, on the media and social media to curb the fire hose of lies and turn off the sewer that drives the far right engine. We're at war. Russia is in full attack and has been since before 2016 and now, it seems we have broligarchy at war with Western values too.

ottoenglish.bsky.social•32 days ago

This is not the time to pretend the fire in your kitchen isn't raging. That is what the arsonists want. It's the time to take active measures against it. Dial 999. Throw water at it. And do not listen to those who tell you it will simply go away.

stuafcb.bsky.social•32 days ago

What if it's a chip pan fire?

ottoenglish.bsky.social•32 days ago

Blanket it!

aliactorest.bsky.social•32 days ago

it arrived and now its announcing itself, every person who has hid in plain sight will be feeling emboldened and I already see and hear it in public places like when I go swimming-very dark days are upon us

jillchambers.bsky.social•32 days ago

So what is the real world equivalent of throwing water at it? Genuine question because petitions, marches, boycotts and talking on here just aren't cutting it. We're dealing with a technological and media propaganda takeover. It's about hearts and minds. How do we undo that damage?

gabigreenham.bsky.social•32 days ago

And a very good question - no easy answer.
But in the UK compared to other countries, we are at least in the lucky position currently of not having a v right wing government.
We might start supporting it rather than moaning it’s not ‘left’ enough.
United front in the face of the race to the right.

perceptionmatters.bsky.social•32 days ago

So the way to avoid the Overton window pushing all the way to the right... is pushing it to the right? Ok... Take it from a Spanish national, we know about this stuff. You can resist, but you cant stop it. All you can do is to brace yourself. You had a chance in 2017 and you all blew it...

ledredman.bsky.social•31 days ago

Agree, except that Starmer needs to help us support him. He's not giving people any encouragement at all at the moment.

ilikecaketoo.bsky.social•31 days ago

Yes, this. There are things I don’t agree with that this Govt is doing/planning, and they are trying to fix a gaping hole with a pack of sellotape. They have a tough gig. But they aren’t RW and most of us should be thankful. The Right is rising through Europe & other countries.

ilikecaketoo.bsky.social•31 days ago

The danger is it will happen here too with Fartage and his rioting fans, especially as idiots like Mask wade in. God help us.

onc147.bsky.social•31 days ago

You can do both. You don’t simply have to agree with everything it does because it’s keeping the far right out of power. As it goes I’ve never voted Labour but I want it to do well and will call it out when needs must. The Greens, Lib Dem’s & SNP have had better positions on trans rights & Gaza

gabigreenham.bsky.social•31 days ago

Indeed, support doesn’t mean there is no room for disagreement on specific policies.
But neither, for me, does disagreement mean becoming blind to achievements in other areas. “Labour did X and now they are dead to me” is not how we fight the rise of the far right.

onc147.bsky.social•31 days ago

I’m not particularly overly left wing and I’m not tribal. I’m actually ok with the idea of airport expansion that is rumoured to be a Rachel Reeves policy but I can understand why passionate environmental leftwing people will not like the policy & I have sympathy for them as Labour are supposed to..

deputybradlaw.bsky.social•32 days ago

This!!

cegpamanda.bsky.social•31 days ago

i'm not convinced that this works. We are seeing the current government drift Right: away from fairness and equality and towards capitalism.

And failing to call out extremism. The government can't have care and compassion AND fear of the Right, and it's leaning into the fear.

federateuk.bsky.social•31 days ago

The real world answer is to address the genuine problems that fuel support for Faragism, namely the lack of control for English communities outside of the biggest cities especially.

wanderingdutchman.bsky.social•27 days ago

You cut off its oxygen (media).

mr.place•31 days ago

Not if its a chip pan fire.

You're old enough to remember those adverts😘

stargirl1620.bsky.social•32 days ago

johnkb.bsky.social•27 days ago

No it’s time to start a new fire then engage with it

cwashington.bsky.social•32 days ago

I do find it funny that after all Farage's talk of being close to Trump, he didn't get invited to the inauguration.

adhdmf.bsky.social•32 days ago

He didn't get invited to ANY official events.

Boy, that must've really hurt...

jacky3344.bsky.social•31 days ago

No-one likes a brown noser who claims to be able to influence a powerful man.
Specially not someone as insecure as tRump.
You could have some sympathy, what with Musk stealing all his best headlines on his big day & getting berated by a Bishop...
If you weren't too busy laughing, of course!

messmonstergigi.bsky.social•32 days ago

The biggest problem is most of the rags people read as news love Fagash, he’s a ‘man of the people’. Most people who read these publications think they’re true - I read it in the paper, must be true.