The "People who are calling for a ceasefire don't have an answer for how to deal with Hamas" line annoys me because people calling for indiscriminate bombing certainly don't either -- they are just pretending to, even though their solution is counterproductive. - ThreadSky

jonathancohn.bsky.social • 492 days ago

The "People who are calling for a ceasefire don't have an answer for how to deal with Hamas" line annoys me because people calling for indiscriminate bombing certainly don't either -- they are just pretending to, even though their solution is counterproductive.

Comments

marxinhell.bsky.social•492 days ago

Especially galling since the run-up to the Oct 7 attack was, as we are learning, *full* of warning signs, which were ignored because the IDF was too busy backing up settler pogroms in the West Bank. One way of "dealing with Hamas" would have been simply to, y'know, guard the border.

adhoc.bsky.social•492 days ago

Not merely counterproductive but actually a war crime...

axleblaze.bsky.social•492 days ago

One of the biggest fallacies in the world is that you can stop terrorism through violence. Violence creates terrorist and there's nothing you can do to change that. If stopping terrorism is the goal, violence never works in the long run

jsrosenblum.bsky.social•492 days ago

Why would you think the bombing is indiscriminate?

cheesesnack.bsky.social•491 days ago

Israeli leadership has constantly and frequently spoke of Palestinians as if there is no such thing as a Palestinian civilian and they have run their military campaign as if that were the truth.

gatorgoat.bsky.social•491 days ago

literal Nazi propaganda

daffycuck.bsky.social•491 days ago

Why do you believe a genocidal apartheid settler state?

billydale.bsky.social•491 days ago

Well the other option is they are discriminating but still choosing to hit apartment buildings and schools which makes them look even worse

mystictsunami.bsky.social•491 days ago

are you a literal child? did you just pop out of the womb yesterday? grow up.

tr0yster.bsky.social•491 days ago

You can see the devastation from orbit

dashwallkick.bsky.social•491 days ago

Because they lie about their targets all the time. You can't rely on "the apartment building was Hamas"

tedna.bsky.social•491 days ago

Have you seen the pictures? Gaza is getting leveled

pyrholidon.bsky.social•491 days ago

They've destroyed half the Gaza strip and as far as I can tell Hamas hasn't diminished in its threat status whatsoever. What exactly have they accomplished other than murdering civilians?

mktulpa.bsky.social•491 days ago

because it’s Israeli doctrine

theorae.bsky.social•491 days ago

Gaza is in flames because IDF is bombing anything and everything.

ohnoyouwint.bsky.social•491 days ago

They’re destroying all Gaza man, we can all see it happening. That’s indiscriminate

mariamwatt.bsky.social•492 days ago

The Israelis have the intelligence network and capacity to strike the homes of Al Jazeera correspondents. If they want to just hit Hamas-they could. They are pretending to look for Hamas as an excuse to ethnically cleanse Gaza.

gtmac.bsky.social•492 days ago

Maybe I don't have a full answer, but I do have one option that has been shown not to work so we have to pivot away from

dabookdragon.bsky.social•491 days ago

There is no denying that both Israel & Hamas scorn human rights. I do have issue with people pretending the issue is not more complex than Israel vs Hamas. Violence between Zionist & The Muslim world in that region started in the late 19th century. Predating both the State of Israel & Hamas.

dabookdragon.bsky.social•491 days ago

This in not some new conflict. It is an escalation of an ongoing battle between two factions that do not care if their hate consumes human beings just trying to live their lives. People "picking sides" need to realize this, and feel rage for all those innocent people, be they Jewish or Muslim.

pawsplay.bsky.social•489 days ago

I have a plan. Take away their bargaining chip by ending apartheid and instituting religious freedom.

bennyswitch.bsky.social•491 days ago

A lot of us had a lot of advise for Israel years ago, but instead of following our advise they elected a fascist war criminal to be their leader.

We don’t have an instant solution. We advise the long hard path towards lasting peace!

catherinebuca.bsky.social•491 days ago

There is one pretty decent solution: ending the reason Hamas exists - ie the occupation and brutal apartheid

alexanderthemeh.bsky.social•492 days ago

It's the same exact playbook as 9/11 with roughly the same historical context- US support AQ for decades to push their goals regionally, blowback, use it to gin up support for massive attacks to reshape the region. Bibi did the same fucking thing with Hamas.

alexanderthemeh.bsky.social•492 days ago

Like "counterproductive" would have to mean that this isn't exactly what the hard right in Israel want- an excuse to invade and kill everything that moves. Look what they're doing in the West Bank right now! They want Palestine and Palestinians gone by violence.

spectorhairday.bsky.social•492 days ago

The people who claim the only options for Israel are mass killing or doing nothing to address the threat also are pushing the stupid argument that all Gazans should be seen as responsible for Hamas. These people want slaughter and the continued cycle of hate and violence. They do not want peace.

eyepatchguy.bsky.social•492 days ago

I don’t think they want it to be a cycle, they just want mass genocide from one side

spectorhairday.bsky.social•492 days ago

It depends who we are talking about. Although far-right members of the governing coalition in Israel have openly advocated for ethnic cleansing in the Palestinian territories, Likud's reason for being has been to counter a perennial enemy. They need the violent cycle, not resolution. Same for Hamas.

spectorhairday.bsky.social•492 days ago

Then again, the people I was referencing as pushing messages of "So, you don't have a better suggestion than mass murder? You must be saying Israel should do nothing and let Hamas do more murders" and "All Gazans are Hamas" are ignorant Americans. Sadly including people I thought weren't monsters.

tft.io•492 days ago

Those people are idiots.

spectorhairday.bsky.social•492 days ago

Idiots, bigots, and bigoted idiots

fortuny.bsky.social•491 days ago

May I just put this out here. Release the hostages, release the babies taken hostage. The elderly taken hostage. Remember them? Then let's talk ceasefire immediately.

davidslifka.bsky.social•491 days ago

When in doubt, kill more people - probably Lincoln or something

unicorntickles.bsky.social•491 days ago

I’m beside myself about all of this but the very fact that expressing concern for innocent victims regardless of which side they fall on is met with anger and demands to pick a side have me sick.

Even my own mom rants at me for it. We’re not even Jewish! She’s catholic!

sarelle.bsky.social•491 days ago

Twitter has become almost unbearable with people who have picked a side and won’t tolerate discussion.

matthewcebul.bsky.social•492 days ago

Yes. But if we’re serious about peace, we should still be trying to answer that criticism head on. Whether we like it or not, at least the possibility of a viable political solution for Hamas seems necessary to convince Israelis to abandon the default of military retaliation.

6pnonethewiser.bsky.social•491 days ago

Bit of a catch-22 though then right? Because a relaxation of Israeli posture towards Gaza seems necessary to enable the possibility of a viable political solution for Hamas.

gatorgoat.bsky.social•491 days ago

Jon, they DO have a "plan" though. The plan is genocide. The goal is the murder or displacement of every man, woman, and child in "Israel", the same as Americans did to the people we subjugated. That much should be apparent. It's clear in their actions.

willemdafomo.bsky.social•491 days ago

The "But Hamas..." People are the same ones who would ask, "but what about black-on-black crime?" When you try to talk about systemic racism in North America.

fjerome.bsky.social•492 days ago

Because they are always implying they won’t stop the bombing until there is nothing left

memccarron.bsky.social•491 days ago

The current answer is to kill all the people in Gaza so later the only people left will be Hamas who were in bombproof tunnels, right?

scottdagostino.ca•492 days ago

It’s an infuriating line because there’s *no shortage* of ways to deal with Hamas -- spies, black-ops, snipers, drones, secret police, border patrols. Israel already has Gaza on full lockdown so USE IT. Go in and begin the hard process of rooting terrorists out, not fucking carpet-bombing CHILDREN.

destrolisher.bsky.social•492 days ago

Israel, famous for its hesitation to use snipers and black ops

theorae.bsky.social•491 days ago

You really need to do away with this idea that the isreali government sees any difference between hamas and the rest of the Palestinian population. Every single Palestinian, regardless of age, is a hostile combatant to IDF.

They will not stop until they're all dead.

2ez2dance.bsky.social•491 days ago

No, they have an answer: genocide. The question isn't Hamas it is the continued existence of Palestine

rueshine.bsky.social•491 days ago

We're told it's about Hamas, but it's not, it's about killing as many Palestinians as possible. Genocide, basically.

barrycaplan.bsky.social•490 days ago

I don't think the bombing is indiscriminate, it's very targeted. But I also think someone calling for a ceasefire somewhere would hit on the idea, you know, to suggest that a return of the hostages in exchange for a 3 day ceasefire and 1500 trucks of aid would be a good proposal to discuss.

jasperj.bsky.social•490 days ago

Giving up their only bargaining chip to an adversary known to be faithless and in return they get essentially nothing? Yeah, that’s a fairly pointless proposal.

persistingiam.bsky.social•492 days ago

Right, and we KNOW that bombing kids doesn't work. Killing civilians never solves anything as we've seen for decades on end. Why aren't people talking about Netanyahu's catastrophic intelligence failure?

pyrholidon.bsky.social•492 days ago

Oh they are, they're just being branded as Hamas supporters and vilified in the media.

pppatticake.bsky.social•489 days ago

Stop genocide is a plan

booktweeting.bsky.social•492 days ago

apart from the moral questions, it is a disaster idea strategically
if there is one thing we have learned from war in the 20th and 21st centuries, it’s that bombing civilian populations has never succeeded reducing retaliation

spacetwinks.bsky.social•491 days ago

not to mention "israel's PM shouldn't blow off their own intelligence reports as being Woke and From The Deep State" is a real good, obvious place to start, as is "israel's PM should not support hamas for his own ends, like undermining palestinian groups that want peace"

ohnoyouwint.bsky.social•491 days ago

Their solution is to corner Hamas until it kills the hostages or lets them die to Israeli bombs, then use that to justify taking the rest of Gaza’s land

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