I work in something unskilled because I saw that the world showed me that it doesn’t need or want me to do anything else, even after training in a skill.
Remember how many 'unskilled' roles became 'essential workers' and ask yourself if, when we can't do without them, why are they son poorly reimbursed? The only real reason is greed and a loss of collective bargaining power.
Agreed. Capital does not create goods and services. Labour does. The decades long disconnect between profit share of capital holders and the people actually making things is and always was daylight robbery.
I heard of few places trying to use AI to drive layoffs and the like with "reasoned" explanations
EVERY project failed because it pointed to upper layers and executive as "fat to trim"and it was apparently problematic finding enough AI ppl to write a dishonest model
Interesting point! There are exceptions to this though. Why are post-doctoral researchers and teachers paid so poorly for example? There are other factors at play than replaceability and a lot of them come down to a lack of bargaining power against wealthy groups squeezing wages.
As someone who used to work as a contract cleaner, that's not an 'easy' job; you have to work quickly, but thoroughly (and, even then, you'll have complaints from people who think that you're their personal slave) and know how to work in a way that doesn't lead to injuring yourself 1/2
And, as soon as something goes missing, you're in the firing line of accusations - and they don't apologise when they find the item (because they put it in a different cupboard or drawer) 2/2
You shit on workers' rights and their right to self-govern because of a dictatorship. Well, I support it because the people's power is the only one that matters, not the power of money and rich little assholes who want to play at nobility.
So, you lived in east Germany 40 years ago. Don't f...ng give me that, that was nothing like proper socialism, Russia wasn't communist after Lenins passing, it was a Stalinist dictatorship until Gorbačov came to power when it accepted democratic rule, until again Putin came to power.
This is why some economists have shifted to calling them low skill jobs. You still need a level of skill to do the job well, but the skills can be picked up more quickly compared to other jobs.
By definition unskilled labor is impossible in the modern world. All labor requires some prerequisite knowledge or ability. The barrier to said knowledge or ability may be lower for some jobs than others but, it does not devalue their labor. Only capital and mismanagement devalues labor.
The perfect example being Musk and his treatment of Twitter. He randomly laid off people and basically said it didn't matter. Sure it ran well for a while but then the bots took over.
The unskilled part is real, and you can get paid millions for it once you get named to the board of directors. The labor part is the myth there though. 😄
It’s funny that politicians call people unskilled labor when almost all of them are completely useless outside a government building. You let useless bureaucrats decide your worth
TBF, they often prove themselves useless inside that building as well. Republicans have been practically incapable of passing bills in the House since the rise of MAGA.
It’s such a strange state, democrats are competent but weak and republicans are incapable but strong. I wish they’d just go back to the middle again, kind of competent and strong when they need to be.
I hear this weak/strong statement quite a bit. How do you define strong and weak, personally, as it applies to politicians. I am genuinely curious about what lead to this perception a lot of folks have and I kind of share, just want your take on it. :)
So strength i guess on a political format would be conviction for change, aggression towards policies, assertiveness, things like that. All it amounts to is bluster in the long run because strength without competence is just screaming into the wind.
Thanks for the info! I kind of think the same thing. This last election taught me that “most” people don’t actually care about policy, just how they feel about the candidate. Democrats just need more showmen over the policy wonks, in public facing positions. Let the wonks run the back office!
"They're meant for high school kids, not a career" - Okay, so what I'm hearing is you no longer want your local coffee or donut shop to open before 3 PM on weekdays. Oh and you want a quick breakfast or lunch on a workday? Well too bad, high schoolers are in class and not able to work fast food.
"They shouldn't make $15/hr when I make only $17/hr as a nurse that went to school for 8 years!" - Then fight for higher wages in your job, you're underpaid. Don't devalue the work others are doing that you benefit from probably every day, as I assume you drink coffee as a nurse, for example.
Or one could recognize that educational level and skill don’t directly correlate to monetary value in the free market unless you impose a top down structure on to make it so, rewarding only those deemed worthy, with “real” jobs.
Here in the UK it amazes me that people have been persuaded to resent the unions that have managed to retain half decent wages, pensions & job security for their members and not the employers who've taken them from the rest of us.
I did some more reading and looks like paying more without productivity gains will lead to inflation. By inflation I mean higher inflation, I'm not talking about inflation being at 0 v/s not 0.
wait till you all figure out we switched collars for a paycheck.
we are all slaves to the rich , money is meaningless but they made it mean something to us so they can continue to control us because they think we "need to be controlled".
Damn, didn't realize Karl Marx was spreading capitalist propaganda when he discussed the distinction between skilled and unskilled labor in Das Kapital
If you cannot acknowledge the faults in the philosophies of dead men simply because you agree with them overall, that is your own failing. Whether or not what he said was true, then, the phrase has been fully adopted by capitalists to justify keeping the poor poorer.
To be clear I'm not particularly pro-marx! But claiming that eliminating the term "unskilled labor" will eliminate the wage disparities is like claiming that poverty will vanish if we simply stop talking about it. "Unskilled labor" describes the inherent fact that some labor can performed to an 1/
acceptable level by most generally competent people after a short period of on the job training, and some labor can't. This disparity in ease of replacement leads to a disparity in wages. Having the term "unskilled labor" just allows us to put a name to this phenomenon 2/2
To be honest, I think this is mostly an issue of muddled meaning. Like a slogan isn't getting the idea across. I think we should focus on the idea of "low value" labor. Bcuz the ACTUAL point is whether someone is a cashier or a doctor, they should at LEAST get paid enough to not live in poverty.
Sure, my point is just that eliminating "unskilled labor" as a term does nothing to lessen those income disparities, just makes it harder to explain the underlying mechanisms that led to them existing in the first place (which predate the terminology)
It doesn't have to be used as "justification." It's a reality of economics. If workers can be relatively easily replaced by anyone off the street there is very little incentive for employers to pay them wages which will encourage them to stay at the business.
No, he is in fact saying that such "unskilled" labor can be performed to an acceptable level by most of the workforce (as opposed to labor which requires extensive training to perform)
Well he isnt wrong there, that doesnt mean the work doesnt have important value and deserves good compensation.
Ive been both over and underrated in different jobs in my life. Im fairly certain hes saying the skill of the laborer is irrelevant to the bourgeois because the quantity averages out
Yes, "unskilled" isn't a judgement on the worth of the labor or laborer, just way of analyzing/explaining why such jobs tend to be poorly (and often similarly) paid, since the laborers are more easily replaced by others without prior experience and thus have less bargaining power
I always considered unskilled labor to not require any prior knowledge--not including training. So working at McDonalds is "unskilled labor" because anyone with a basic education could do it. Whereas working as a welder, an electrician, etc. would be "skilled labor" because you need to know it.
That said, nobody is worth nothing. Everyone is worth a livable wage and "unskilled labor," while justifiably lower income than "skilled labor," should not be an excuse to pay under that amount.
But is lower income really justifiable? It always shocks me how often the least desirable yet essential jobs for society's functioning are the worst paid. This happens because, as a society, we rely on desperate people, those without the time or energy to negotiate, to fill these roles
Lower income than skilled labor, obviously. That's because they aren't using a skill, it's really that simple. And for that matter, why would anyone want to take on student loan debt for the sake of learning a skill so they could be paid the same?
Because they don’t want to end up doing undesirable work? Add prestige, the ability to choose preferred work (e.g., technical vs. physical), steer your career, better job security, more options, etc. I don’t think people would line up for for example waste disposal, even if it paid better.
I hate the term unskilled labor because it's mostly used to defend keeping ppl suppressed and being paid slave wages. My counterargument is why not pay the ppl that have been in that field of work for long-term more because after doing the job for some time, you learn tips and tricks for better flow
😂
No shit.....I would gladly let them use my bathroom. Im sure Amazon is not for that!
Piss bottle. Thats something I did by OPTION so I could get through both tanks in my truck without stopping.
Except that's not true is it? Companies will always pay the lowest wage they can consistent with buying the skills they need. If you have no skills your price is not going to be high. Parents, teach your children this.
I feel like you can divide jobs based on skill like that:
1. Jobs that require specialised knowledge/training. Examples: doctors, engineers, most trades
2. Jobs where you need to be better at something most people already know. Examples: janitor, service worker, consultant, CEO
Once you have worked somewhere for 30 days, your labor is no longer ‘unskilled.’ You should immediately get a raise. After one year, no matter the company, you should be given company healthcare and a VACATION. Can you hear me convenience store companies? They never get holidays off or vacations…
I think “unskilled” usually means the job doesn’t require specific training or education before you start working. “Entry level” means you don’t have prior experience in the field, but still have whatever training is required for the job. There are experienced servers, entry-level programmers, etc.
It's not that it takes just as much skill to be a cashier as a surgeon, or that a cashier's job is just as important as a surgeon's. However, any full-time job should be able to cover a person's basic living expenses. That's why it's a "full-time" job. They shouldn't need another.
Why should any labor be disrespected for that matter? "It's natural for women to have empathy so they enjoy running a kindergarten!" or something argument is invalid because it's still labor and still consumes time and energy. They're just finding excuses for disrespecting fellow humans.
"Enjoying your work is reward enough" should be the logic we use to determine the wages of narcissist politicians, deceit-happy propagandists, cruel prison wardens... Do jobs that are inherently parasitic by their nature even deserve monetary reward?
"Labor of love" gets the most disrespect from exploiters while being the greatest boon of humanity. Imagine any god that sees a good teacher and thinks "hmm they enjoy their very impactful job too much, maybe they should only get paid enough to continue living and getting exploited".
Exploiters do so much mental gymnastics to arrive to the opposite conclusion of what their wise god would actually design: doing good work that is yours feels good, doing wrong work that doesn't suit you feels bad. If no one feels good doing it, it better be paid really damn well and applauded too.
Unskilled labor is an economics term used to refer to jobs you can get reasonably good at with nonspecialized, rapid training and do not require a deep bespoke skills base
Alright I see we are either in "deny that some jobs genuinely require deep specialized knowledge while others don't" land or "economists are just a bunch of right wing hacks" land, both of which are utterly useless points of view to engage with
It's not a good term, but it's also misunderstood (and sometimes deliberately misinterpreted).
"Unskilled labour" does not refer to a person being completely unskilled. It means that the job they are doing requires no specialist skills (outside of skills they might use in everyday life)
Some people's job involves typing stuff into a spreadsheet. At one time, this would have been considered specialist, not anymore. It's just someone using an everyday skill, not a specialised skill for the job.
Honestly, every job does require some amount of skill and higher skill. Jobs like surgeons should be paid more than grocery workers...
However, the lowest wage still should allow those people working those jobs to still live in a comfortable house and still be able to pay for bills and food
First
An engineer and a surgeon have two different skill sets that take a long time to acquire the skills to do vs a cashier that can be trained within a week or less
But no matter the job position they should still be able to have a livable wage but higher skills should still have more pay
Second
The reason why "unskilled labor" isn't really a thing is because all jobs still require skills, it's just they require different skills levels and everyone will have different varieties of those skills but skills nonetheless.
“However, the lowest wage still should allow those people working those jobs to still live in a comfortable house and still be able to pay for bills and food”
Basically just somewhere that isn't a pest infested rust everywhere. Literally needs every single pipe and wire fixed. Sort of housing And then food and bills is obvious
It's one argument, but the next 50 years will be interesting. As robotics continues to excel, it will be easier and easier to replace people in jobs that require "no skills". And I don't buy into the myth that there will always be "more" skilled jobs. I think that is close to a plateau already.
Yes, but I thought we were talking about positions that do not require technical skills, education, or much training (i.e., unskilled labor)
That is not the case for an entry level chemist, entry level planner-scheduler, or entry level web designer.
That's why every position has a starting salary I suppose. The problem isn't with "Entry level" positions. The problem is with employers wanting to pay entry level salaries to experienced candidates
Not sure what you think I'm having a hard time with.
To clarify, I'm questioning whether the term unskilled labor is just a myth to justify poverty wages.
I hire unskilled labor and I hire skilled labor. I pay them all well, but not equally.
And non hiring. A union job proves nearly anyone could be hired to do nearly any job on the floor, and there's no such thing as not being able to find qualified applicants. When you show up, you're expected to be thrown on any job and learn it asap
Yeah, this meme drives me nuts every time it comes around again. Grocery store cashiers aren't considered unskilled, restaurant severs aren't unskilled, delivery driver is not unskilled. Bricklayers' skills are defined as on par with a physician!
the two genders of "tHeReS nO sUcH tHiNg aS uNsKiLlEd lAbOr" post are that with images of obviously skilled labor, or obviously unskilled labor done with an unnecessary amount of performative flair
Even more: the wage principle itself, which is being forced to sell ones lifetime as a commodity for another to exploit for their private profit is inherently bad.
Working with and for everybody, mutually, universally, on the other hand, this would be a great way to never have poverty again.
They can be unskilled and essential at the same time. The problem is acting like they're not essential, not recognizing that they're unskilled. Since when does skill define value?
"Skilled/highly-trained" or "unskilled"/to-be-trained/entry-level...it doesn't matter. If the work needs to be done, and it's dangerous/disgusting/humiliating/thankless/tedious/boring-as-shit work that's essential to keep society going, then people should be paid a living wage to do it.
Even a greeter at a retail store deserves a livable wage. People need to realize we live for a finite number of hours. We are trading our literal lives for working. Appropriate compensation is required for something so insane
As someone who once supervised crews of 12 people, I can assure you that most people have little to no actual job skills, including the ability to talk to strangers when the job requires it. In simpler times, these people would be left behind as a danger to the tribe.
And that's the problem of a lack of proper education in these times. There's no "Home Economics" classes anymore. You don't get taught how to cook, manage money, invest, pay bills, or do anything akin to basic living skills through school anymore, let alone understand how to obtain job skills.
Not really. It works like this.
Unskilled labor - High School, gets trained by employer
Skilled labor - Vocational school eg carpenter, electrician or mechanic
Professional labor - University, eg engineer, doctor, architect
Rentseeking leeches - does not work, makes living from investments
Even skilled labor can't find real employment. I'm an example of this.
I have a skill that no employer seems interested in. Here is an example. I wrote code to encrypt and decrypt information. I don't think anyone can decipher this message. The numbers are in hexadecimal.
So what do you use for your hashing function? md5, sha-256, or some of the newer ones like argon2? I don't do a lot directly with encryption algorithms, but need them for https and ssh.
Unskilled is a technical term that people take too personally. It just means that you didn't require specific training or education to fill out your role. It's a job that any reasonably able person will be able to do. It's not a dig against the working class.
It is deserved. When I first encountered the post, many people seemed to suggest the terminology was insulting. These people mean well and their frustrations are real, some people do see min-wage jobs as lesser. But not academics, they're just using a technical term.
So, a six axis CNC horizontal boring mill operator who can program and do set ups adds as much value to the product as the guy sweeping up his machine chips?
Being unskilled isn't derogatory. Some tasks can be learnt easily without education or much training, others need it. A physicist could learn to make espresso but a barista would need to go to uni for 4+ years to learn to be a physicist. One is skilled, the other a lot less so
What evidence can you offer that a degree in physics (or any other) *should* take 4 years (or more)?
Degrees, very unfortunately, because I support education all the way, are more about maintaining class separation so the already wealthy can remain that way, generation after generation.
No, labour is not labour. Almost anyone can learn to be a barrister or work a till. If anyone can do it then it there's no reason to pay more for it. That's what it means to provide unskilled labour.
Those jobs are skills, anyone can learn those skills same way anyone who puts in the effort can get a PHD. The ability for a large amount of people to do learn something quickly doesn't invalidate its necessity and the necessity for those people to be able to afford a reasonable living.
If there where no more grocers, that'd cause problems no different to if there suddenly was no more doctors, or nurses, truckers or farmers etc. Just because you perceive one as easier doesn't mean they should be in poverty, a full time job is a full time job and should earn a liveable wage.
I agree, we need all these jobs and they need livable wages. But you're wrong - I don't "perceive" some tasks to be easier, they *are* easier. Skilled and Unskilled labor is a thing and deserves different pay.
Unskilled doesn't mean 0 skill. It's a colloquial term. I used "less" because OP seems to consider the term derogatory. We all know unskilled labour means low skill and training required
anyone who is tasked with working full time work should receive a livng wage, full stop. it doesnt matter that other people could do the job too because they arent.
Living wage sure, I agree and never argued they shouldnt. I was addressing OP that unskilled labor is a thing and it justifies paying more for more skilled labor. It would not be good to pay everyone the same wage regardless of what task they do.
who cares? your just skipping over the issue we're talking about so you can boost people who are already in the better situation. youre just detracting from the problem we were trying to speak to
If you don't think these things then why are you saying it? Make a better argument. Don't pretend all labor is the same. Don't say unskilled labor isn't a real thing - say what you "actually" think, that everyone deserves a living wage.
I wouldn't say it's a "myth" because unskilled labor is a thing, but it is a thing because our system made it a thing.
The difference between skilled and unskilled labor is whether or not you had to get off the job training. But the reason why off the job training exists is because of capitalism.
Getting an education is labor, it's not immediate value producing labor but it is labor regardless and it is an investment into the system you exist in that is expected to return labor value.
What our system does is expect the laborers to bear the risk of the investment in their own education.
Right but that's irrelevant. There would still be jobs for unskilled laborers and jobs for skilled laborers regardless of whether or not schooling was free or even paid. Some skills aren't even things that you specifically train for at a school, and some skills come from previous jobs.
It's not irrelevant actually. If we had a system that paid people for the labor of getting an education for the high skilled fields, there would basically be no distinction between skilled and unskilled.
Yes there is: Whether or not the job you are being hired to do requires prior skills and knowledge.
Paying people for the labor of getting an education doesn't change the fact that some jobs will require prior skills and knowledge and others won't. This is a perfectly fine observation to make.
This dramatically increases the labor value off certain fields where laborers are expected to pay for education and dramatically devalues the labor of so-called "unskilled labor" where people are paid for the labor of getting the education.
This isn't about ppl who "don't know what they're doing". Its about ppl with jobs deemed low value, which is used to justify paying them so little they can't afford to live. If you get so pissy at the suggestion that everyone deserves to at least be paid living wage, then you're just an asshole.
Went from "unskilled" to "essential" back to "unskilled" so quick, but I'd pay good money to see them mfs saying I'm an "unskilled worker" do my job for a day.
This is so real. Went from "thank you so much for being here! It really means so much!" at my coffee shop job during the day to "i hope you die in this pandemic" when we had to close because of the curfews 🫥
The most useless “labor” is wall street and all their simps. The pandemic proved it. If tomorrow they collapse, we all will be fine. If all “unskilled” labor just stopped. We wouldn’t be. At all.
People who truly have the real power get paid pennies and are gaslit,specifically because of that. That goes for Art as well.Spotify is the perfect example.They are NOTHING without the artists, but those that make them billionaires get 1/3749596 of the 💵 .That sums up capitalism fascism vs society.
I've worked in every kind of job, from customer service to tech dev to c-suite. Some of my most grueling, miserable days were as an "unskilled" worker. I have huge respect for anyone who deals with the public. They deserve every penny and more.
This type of post has come over from Twitter now? As a socialist who has had worked multiple unskilled jobs before getting my current one, unskilled labour objectively exists, requiring less education and training and being less productive. However, under capitalism if the job exists at all surplus
I think some "socialists" think the principles of economics are optional reading for capitalists only even though the theory is heavily concerned with those as well.
value must be being extracted as profit, so the company could afford and be forced to treat their employees better. There's no contradiction there, if anything socialism predicts that more people will fall into the ranks of unskilled labour over time due to increased automation.
Do you know any c suite types? Personally? Because a lot of the people in this common section don’t even seem to understand what executives do, let alone be able to judge their skills.
Found the finance bro. People with real jobs dont worship at the altar of Jack Welch and can spell properly. The measure of their skill is weather the place Is the same, better off or most commonly worse off when they leave. You dont have to be a chef know the food is bad.
It's a good fucking message but dear god shut the fuck up. This is not your art, you did not get permission to re-upload it, and you did not credit the original author.
No, its labor that doesn't require much skill or training and thus is a job that nearly anyone can do if they wanted to, and thus since there's such a high supply of the labor that can be provided there's a lower pay for it
skill or training doesnt determine who easy/hard a job can be though, esp. if things like quotas are involved.
Like Amazon warehouse work can be considered unskilled labor, but the amount of said labor is so much they cant even go to the bathroom and are forced to work multiple jobs
You're over-estimating that by orders of magnitude.
There are studies showing zero difference in any measurable quality of a corporation that changes CEOs. Getting famous for writing a book, or having paparazzi interviews on morning TV is just window dressing.
The comapny I work for has a CEO worth 17.7 billion....they just made 1.1 million dollars last week and our cutting our hours AND hour bonus was less than last year....ALL labor is the reason success exists.
here's a secret; pretty much all labor can be easily taught within a few weeks
job requirements are largely arbitrary and favoring stem jobs over working with one's hands is just elitist propaganda based upon the notion that working with tech is more refined or sophisticated
-signed, a person that is really good with computers that recognizes she could probably catch a completely uninitiated person up on a technical job within a week
the only reason those jobs pay more is because they require degrees; degrees are largely just a means to separate the poor.
flat out lie because i have served thousands of people as a cashier who couldn't even work a self checkout to save their life. even if it is so "easy" to learn and in such high supply, why is there such a boom in short staff in retail and food service ? none of this justifies a non-livable wage
The majority of the economy is unskilled labor and they run this country...value for skilled labor comes from scarcity more than skill...skills are everywhere.
The SMALL truth to it is, if you can have someone "steal" your job in 3 hours or less of training, you're at risk of that happening.
Management needs to value employees and treat us with respect; we need to make ourselves irreplaceable, so they have to show us respect because they won't otherwise.
We should also consider that we’ve evolved past this system and the economy is kept on life support by the capitalists who need it to stay in power. Ask why we aspire to be more valuable to CEOs than more valuable to civilization.
Not quite. The majority of unskilled workers are factory workers, who earn on average a little above median wage. It just so happens that minimum wage jobs are unskilled.
Politics is the pinnacle of unskilled jobs. All it takes is being a decent human being but by the time they get out of high school it too late to learn that.
If you can be trained to do your job in a day or less, it's unskilled. Anyone could reasonably do it. Meaning it's got the greatest number or potential workers, and thus will pay the least.
Unskilled labor is real. It's labor you can do without more than a short explanation.
ALL workers deserve a living wage and ALL people deserve to have their basic needs met whether they work or not. You're fighting the wrong battle entirely and there is no victory there.
I mean, I'm a software engineer making six figures, but it could be argued that my job is unskilled. I don't require any particular certifications and I don't have a software degree. And I've helped train people who had zero experience but became perfectly competent developers.
Curious how it was many of those jobs that the Professional Managerial Class considered "Low/Unskilled" were the ones deemed essential during the pandemic. Shutdown or not, We still had to go to our jobs whilst the PMC sat on their couch in their pajamas on VidChat
You can train someone to stock grocery shelves in a few hours or less but it takes months to train how to properly weld. Don’t get me wrong, all labor has dignity and no one should be denigrated for it, but you’re going to lose people with this meme because it’s oversimplifying things.
This isn’t really true. A cashier isn’t as skilled as something like a pilot. If your job doesn’t require any sort of college education or can be done by a teenager it is an unskilled job. Doesn’t mean they deserve mistreatment.
He's looking to take home about $150 million this year because of his arduous job that barely leaves enough time to play video games and tweet all day, but sure, his job is highly skilled and specialized.
All across history once people become rich and powerful enough they believe the virtues of self-reliance are beneath them and they become dependent on the labor of those they oppress?
I'd say this is the real unskilled labor. I'd like to see a billionaire do anything besides play golf or undermine their own workforce. #WeThePeople have the real power. If everyone just decided to take a personal day at once, they'd lose millions. Remember, they need you, not the other way around.
Any kind of job that you do to make other people money is a form of slavery.
The wages you accept depends on how much knowledge you have and how much you enjoy doing it.
It is a completely different story for people born into a wealthy family.
Oh bullshit, I’m tired of this crap. Slavery is a very real and serious thing that still exists in this world. You getting a job that pays you, which you can leave, is not slavery.
Yes, you are right. Absolutely it is serious and real. I wasn’t trying to downplay modern slavery.
My point was, the low wages where people can’t afford a comfortable living is a form of slavery.
It’s a form of bananas too if you just wanna throw words around. Individuals have had to contribute in some way to greater society economically in order to survive for as long as we’ve had human civilization. If everyone got paid a little bit more, would it stop being “slavery”?
And you're getting paid the same as unskilled? There are lots of opportunities right now. If you're making McDonald's wages with those skills, you're not getting what you could.
What part of the country are you in? You may have to move.
Same thing with capitalists trying to confuse people into thinking that Private Property is the same thing as Personal Property. They don't mean the same thing. Socialist/Communists aren't talking about abolishing your right to own your toothbrush or clothes, they r talking about factories
But I was talking about the difference between Private vs Personal property.
Also, I'm not a commie, because it's a political ideology that explicitly states that they don't know what it would actually look like in practice. So that's a no go 4 me.
Its just a dumb dichotomy. The real division is between capital and land, not subdivisions of various kinds of wealth. Private property is good and should stay. Unearned economic rents are what we need to publicly redistribute for the public good rather than let them be privately captured.
Countries in Europe used "Skilled Labour" as the only people who they are looking for to work in their countries for visas.
I agree with this, but I know that before Trumps administration starts, at least we offered positions to people wanting to work here.Try to find that in Europe without a degree
Nigel Farage, Left a fee paying Public school with zero qualifications and was taken into a city of London firm owned by Daddy where he worked 20 years until finally being gotten rid of to become a right wing chiseller. Not short of a bob or two, it's not what you know, it's who you know!
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EVERY project failed because it pointed to upper layers and executive as "fat to trim"and it was apparently problematic finding enough AI ppl to write a dishonest model
Retail staff are low paid because there is high supply.
Research staff are low paid because there is low demand.
I hate breaking human beings down into this, but that's how it works. Late stage capitalism sucks.
It takes so much knowledge and attention to properly tend to crops and animals.
FWIW there are a LOT of highly skilled jobs and they need to exist and be funded to the point they are filled.
But we should not deny humans dignity because they can't: say, teach elliptical curve encryption.
#BasicIncome is a concept we need to pursue as a society.
We gotta start asking ourselves how valuable is our labor if someone can make hundreds of billions of dollars from it?
we are all slaves to the rich , money is meaningless but they made it mean something to us so they can continue to control us because they think we "need to be controlled".
Ive been both over and underrated in different jobs in my life. Im fairly certain hes saying the skill of the laborer is irrelevant to the bourgeois because the quantity averages out
No shit.....I would gladly let them use my bathroom. Im sure Amazon is not for that!
Piss bottle. Thats something I did by OPTION so I could get through both tanks in my truck without stopping.
Write a haiku about lettuce
But yeah, Amazon warehouses either don't let their employees take piss breaks or strictly time them and penalise workers if they take "too long"
1. Jobs that require specialised knowledge/training. Examples: doctors, engineers, most trades
2. Jobs where you need to be better at something most people already know. Examples: janitor, service worker, consultant, CEO
Ok.
I had to invent new swear words for CDL school.
Also lots of jobs come with a starting salary anyway, or the initial wage is *the* wage of a skilled worker.
"UNSKILLED
LABOUR"
IS A
CAPITALIST
MYTH
USED TO
JUSTIFY
POVERTY
WAGES.
Stop looking down on retail and fast food staff
"Unskilled labour" does not refer to a person being completely unskilled. It means that the job they are doing requires no specialist skills (outside of skills they might use in everyday life)
I've done sweeping a floor and deck scrubbing, it's mentally easy, no additional skills required.
I could probably do bricklaying, but would need specialist skills training as well
Some people's job involves typing stuff into a spreadsheet. At one time, this would have been considered specialist, not anymore. It's just someone using an everyday skill, not a specialised skill for the job.
A software developer though, is skilled labour.
However, the lowest wage still should allow those people working those jobs to still live in a comfortable house and still be able to pay for bills and food
An engineer and a surgeon have two different skill sets that take a long time to acquire the skills to do vs a cashier that can be trained within a week or less
But no matter the job position they should still be able to have a livable wage but higher skills should still have more pay
The reason why "unskilled labor" isn't really a thing is because all jobs still require skills, it's just they require different skills levels and everyone will have different varieties of those skills but skills nonetheless.
“However, the lowest wage still should allow those people working those jobs to still live in a comfortable house and still be able to pay for bills and food”
That is not the case for an entry level chemist, entry level planner-scheduler, or entry level web designer.
This is very, very easy and I'm not sure how you are having a hard time with it.
To clarify, I'm questioning whether the term unskilled labor is just a myth to justify poverty wages.
I hire unskilled labor and I hire skilled labor. I pay them all well, but not equally.
Working with and for everybody, mutually, universally, on the other hand, this would be a great way to never have poverty again.
Literally everyone has to learn in order to have skills (both soft and hard). You don't just spontaneously know thing. Someone has to teach you.
Part of a sup's job IS training folks. Sounds like you we're good at your job.
Unskilled labor - High School, gets trained by employer
Skilled labor - Vocational school eg carpenter, electrician or mechanic
Professional labor - University, eg engineer, doctor, architect
Rentseeking leeches - does not work, makes living from investments
I have a skill that no employer seems interested in. Here is an example. I wrote code to encrypt and decrypt information. I don't think anyone can decipher this message. The numbers are in hexadecimal.
is
no
such
thing
as
unskilled
labor
Please, enlighten me. Your logic is over my head.
Degrees, very unfortunately, because I support education all the way, are more about maintaining class separation so the already wealthy can remain that way, generation after generation.
If you had ever had to hire employees you would understand.
*Every* job has masters of it, and the rest are between mediocre & sucking. That includes physics, medicine, law, etc, etc.
Yet they still are paid that arbitrary multiple over others.
Two levels of dumbass for the price of one.
anyone who is tasked with working full time work should receive a livng wage, full stop. it doesnt matter that other people could do the job too because they arent.
work is work. thats the point.
The difference between skilled and unskilled labor is whether or not you had to get off the job training. But the reason why off the job training exists is because of capitalism.
What our system does is expect the laborers to bear the risk of the investment in their own education.
Paying people for the labor of getting an education doesn't change the fact that some jobs will require prior skills and knowledge and others won't. This is a perfectly fine observation to make.
My point is that the distinction between skilled and unskilled is a product of our system.
Like Amazon warehouse work can be considered unskilled labor, but the amount of said labor is so much they cant even go to the bathroom and are forced to work multiple jobs
a job only 1 person can do is gonna pay a lot more than a 1000 people can do, no matter how easy or hard the two jobs are.
There are studies showing zero difference in any measurable quality of a corporation that changes CEOs. Getting famous for writing a book, or having paparazzi interviews on morning TV is just window dressing.
Management is much easier than work.
job requirements are largely arbitrary and favoring stem jobs over working with one's hands is just elitist propaganda based upon the notion that working with tech is more refined or sophisticated
the only reason those jobs pay more is because they require degrees; degrees are largely just a means to separate the poor.
half the time the job requires using a program you'd never be taught in university anyway, so you're starting from scratch regardless
our world stands on a fragile and janky house of cards; putting up pretenses of professionalism is idiotic.
If you’ve struggled to help a parent connect to WiFi, remember that people like that are the average employee. Not everyone is suited for every job
I could learn to be a fast food or retail employee in a day. at most.
and even if you did, the job is so much more brutal than any tech job, that more than makes up for it
because i have.
because those jobs are simple as shit. literally anyone can do them so long as they have at least 3 functioning limbs.
I'll take the tech job over the retail or food service job any day, even with equal pay; it's just the easier job
i hope you weren't expecting me to dispute that, because yeah you're just correct. that's how capitalism works
I think it's funny that you think being a bricklayer is unskilled labor.
Management needs to value employees and treat us with respect; we need to make ourselves irreplaceable, so they have to show us respect because they won't otherwise.
1. Why are there starter jobs that teach nothing
2. WHY DO THE CHILDREN NEED WORK
If it needs to be done by human hands, then it deserves a human wage.
ALL workers deserve a living wage and ALL people deserve to have their basic needs met whether they work or not. You're fighting the wrong battle entirely and there is no victory there.
Also the thing of complaining that 'they' are changing the definition of something, while trying to change the definition of something.
Yet I don't see the conspiracy here. Why can't you or I just pay people more, if we think their labor is worth it? Why blame others for our choices?
Since the ppl who aren't doing that are the products of luck and privilege.
CEO.
Almost every CEO I've ever met talks a big game about how hard their job is and then spends eight hours a day screwing around doing relatively little.
Elon Musk is the 19th highest ranked Diablo 4 player in North America.
https://www.nme.com/news/gaming-news/elon-musk-denies-cheating-in-path-of-exile-2-despite-ban-3822972
The wages you accept depends on how much knowledge you have and how much you enjoy doing it.
It is a completely different story for people born into a wealthy family.
My point was, the low wages where people can’t afford a comfortable living is a form of slavery.
What part of the country are you in? You may have to move.
I pick up boxes and put them back down on a pallet. I drive a truck that is as intuitive to use as a gamepad.
I can read, however most of my colleagues are so fresh they barely understand English.
I'm really interested to know where the skills are.
They have stolen billions from us!
United we bargain, divided we beg
But I was talking about the difference between Private vs Personal property.
Also, I'm not a commie, because it's a political ideology that explicitly states that they don't know what it would actually look like in practice. So that's a no go 4 me.
I agree with this, but I know that before Trumps administration starts, at least we offered positions to people wanting to work here.Try to find that in Europe without a degree