This great video also reminded me of an interesting facet of motonormativity: people can lose 100 hours a year in traffic and never notice; but they have one late train and it's all "Never again - you can't rely on them" - ThreadSky

ianwalker.bsky.social • 15 days ago

This great video also reminded me of an interesting facet of motonormativity: people can lose 100 hours a year in traffic and never notice; but they have one late train and it's all "Never again - you can't rely on them"

Reposted from Prof. Ian Walker

"Everything you thought you knew about roads is a lie" GCN go hard on induced demand and all the other follies linked to road building www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVq7...

Comments

rooster-tails.bsky.social•14 days ago

I often sit on the M6 - under HS2 being built - thinking - the best marketing for railways should be "So you want fewer cars on the motorway..." @garethdennis.bsky.social

rulesdontwork.bsky.social•15 days ago

Yeah, always been the opposite for me, I loathe traffic jams and don't mind so much delays in transit. So what are the psychological mechanisms that trigger one or the other?

damohaywood.bsky.social•15 days ago

For the last 20 years I have experienced mild anxiety at the thought of travelling for an appointment using any method other than bicycle. You cannot trust that any motor powered transportation will be on time.

robonabike.bsky.social•15 days ago

I definitely get this in Oxford. When I lived in London, I didn't have to build in more than 10-15 mins leeway, for even longish journeys.
Any non-road network where the services is frequent enough that you don't have to check the timetable lets you think differently.

elviereads.bsky.social•14 days ago

sure, I'm slower on foot or on a bike, but I have so much more control over my route! I can cut through parks, ride respectfully on sidewalks when a road is one-way, switch from biking to walking and then back if eg there's a traffic snarl or a big road detour w/ sidewalks still open. real benefits!

elviereads.bsky.social•14 days ago

I'm not a fast rider, I avoid thoroughfares and am cautious to a fault when crossing a street with traffic, but I still regularly get from point A to point B in the same amount of time as someone in a car lol

mithos343.bsky.social•14 days ago

Well, fuck. Wow. That's a thought

dseitz.bsky.social•14 days ago

I think also part of it is because everyone drives, you get the kind of grace not allotted to other forms of transportation when you're late. Nobody challenges "stuck in traffic" as an excuse even when it obviously isn't true.

cuneform.bsky.social•14 days ago

I once had a bus break down on my way to work, so we waited for a backup, which made everyone late. Then I had to justify the audacity of being LATE TO WORK in my first three months to Apple's HR team, who struggled to understand that, while I relied on the bus, I had no say in its schedule.

thomashallett.bsky.social•15 days ago

The idea of changing trains seems to horrify a lot of people.

emma-worthington.bsky.social•14 days ago

I love trains and travel every week, but I do get this. It adds extra risk (my train is late so I miss my connection), time (waiting for 20+ minutes to change even though I live on a direct line, there are no direct trains), and hassle if travelling with luggage/bike or with any mobility issues.

dodiscimus.bsky.social•14 days ago

Yes. That feeling when your connection leaves at 0842 platform 7 at a station you don't know, your current train is due to get in at 0830 platform 2, it was already 5 mins late setting off at the start of your journey and then starts to lose more time because it's missed its timetable slot. 😥

emma-worthington.bsky.social•14 days ago

Yes. I regularly used to miss a connection, 7 minutes to change platforms but the first train was routinely late. Sometimes only a few minutes, but it was enough! Now I get a stopping service that takes forever but I don’t have the jeopardy.

ianwalker.bsky.social•15 days ago

We need to reinvent it as changing horses at the roadside inn

emma-worthington.bsky.social•14 days ago

More frequent and reliable trains would be a huge help. As would consistent level boarding, decent bike/pushchair/luggage space and wheelchair spaces.

Might as well ask for the moon on a stick.

seanmeredith.bsky.social•15 days ago

If the trains in the middle of a city are late everyday, it gets a little ridiculous.

(Written by a bike rider who began riding 17 years ago when they’d grown frustrated and hated so much of their car centric life)

dodiscimus.bsky.social•14 days ago

I stopped catching the bus to work and started cycling because every now and again the bus didn't come and I was late to work (teacher). There's a threshold. As a teacher, 2-3 times a year is acceptable; more than once a month is not.

dodiscimus.bsky.social•15 days ago

Probably loads of things feed into this but particularly:
Typical journey by car - timing is some sort of skewed normal distribution. Easier to accommodate.
Typical journey by train - mostly bang on time, sometimes waaay off. Harder to accommodate.
Plus, you never "just miss" a car.

ianwalker.bsky.social•15 days ago

I can't help wonder if unconsciously people view getting stuck for 4 hours on a motorway as just one of those things cars do, outside human control, much like ploughing into a bus queue

borderlandsbike.bsky.social•15 days ago

I think people see traffic as the failure of people (“that idiot who crashed”, those cyclists, the council for not building more) whereas for trains and buses people blame the system. Because it’s “my” car, but “the” train?

tomthetortoise.bsky.social•15 days ago

They absolutely do! Road delays are "just traffic" and accepted whereas a train delay is a problem with trains.

Personally I'd rather be delayed somewhere with a toilet, possibly a cafe, and the prospect of getting part or all of my fare refunded rather than in a metal box.

adjb.net•15 days ago

you must be motowoke

steveocrom.bsky.social•14 days ago

People also think they can influence the situation when they are in a car. "Maybe I can turn off and do a short cut or get in the faster lane of traffic". They feel more helpless with trains.

dodiscimus.bsky.social•14 days ago

Yes, I think that's also true. Even if it rarely helps.

dodiscimus.bsky.social•15 days ago

I feel roughly the same about delays in the car and on the train. They're both just part of using that form of transport, aren't they?
My question is about the frequency and severity (and experience, as you point out).

dodiscimus.bsky.social•15 days ago

My most delayed train journey was +22 hours. My most delayed car journey was ~ +3 hours.

dodiscimus.bsky.social•15 days ago

People judge all sorts of thing in weird ways of course, but I have a hunch that if you looked at proportion of journeys with really grim delays, it would be higher for trains.
I might be wrong, though.

obsoletevernacular.bsky.social•14 days ago

Yes, or I often hear people prefer to "get in the car and go" and then don't account for traffic, or feel like they have control somehow.

gspeng.bsky.social•15 days ago

Motonormativity lets people rationalize speeding as "I'm just keeping pace with traffic."
We are creating the norm of speeding.
People were doing 75-80 mph in a 55 mph road construction zone on I-5 in N SD County.
The Kinetic Energy of a car going 80 mph is 2.1x the KE of one doing 55.

sparecake.bsky.social•14 days ago

Didn't end up passing, but there was an effort last year to make it the law in NH that you can legally go 10 mph above the posted limit, which... what? If we're all already doing that and getting away with it now, how much above posted does that mean you could go then??

padders123.bsky.social•14 days ago

Linked to Maister's theory of queuing - people feel in control in a car so they don't feel the emotional impact as much when on board a train and not in control of the situation.

stevieinselby.bsky.social•14 days ago

If I'm stuck in a traffic jam, I can't switch off, it's completely dead time. Whereas if I'm on a bus or train that's stuck, I can read a book, do some puzzles, or in some situations get out and walk. Sometimes in a car you can find another way round, but mostly I'd rather be on a bus or train.

padders123.bsky.social•14 days ago

Indeed, it's a good argument, but most people don't see it that way. The other big problem with bus or train disruption is it often leads to overcrowding / standing, often not even on the train which makes doing anything else difficult.

sk8judgedt.bsky.social•14 days ago

🎯

arolpin.bsky.social•14 days ago

My morning train commute, including 1km walks at both ends, should be 55 minutes, door-to-door, it’s 1:05 most of the time. Evening commute home is ~50 minutes, door-to-door.
Driving to my alternate office is 45 minute am, 45-120 minutes pm.
If a train is late, I just keep reading. No stress.

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