You beat fascism by making common cause with everyone who is not a fascist and not a collaborator, but that second part is critical. It’s a non-ideological coalition in which we don’t have to agree about anything except the need to fight.
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I should also point out that, historically, fascism has only really been defeated by global war costing tens of millions of lives, or by waiting more than a generation for it to die a natural, sclerotic death. "Common cause" has never defeated fascism, unless you mean global war.
It is a matter of some debate as to whether South Korea or Chile were actually "fascist" in the same way as Portugal, Spain, and Italy. In any event, one can probably regard South Korea's Second Republic as a brief hiccup in more than two decades of authoritarian dictatorship.
And generally, when a country has needed a generation for its fascism to die a natural death, it’s because its fascist *leader* died a natural death. Fascism is a cult of personality around a charismatic leader, but that leader almost never takes power when he’s as old as Trump is now.
This is the real question. Everyone wants to give you something to fight against, but that does not unite people. You have to give people something to fight FOR or you are just doing the same thing the democrats did last year when they lost.
No historical movement succeeded without allies. Allies agree on particular ideas and strategy toward one specific goal, so as David says, you don't have to be soulmates. The more diverse the allyship - the breadth of the groups represented - can be a huge tent with many more resources on your side.
This was the EXACT playbook of Fred Hampton, & why his was a government targeted assassination. He successfully created just such a coalition; unfortunately, it was held together by his charisma alone, & never had a chance to metastasis into something more permanent
I’ve read that Schumer is “taking the hit” and he’s been doing this awhile. I have to believe that he has some level of knowledge that I do not and hope that this is strategic thing. Yes it is more comforting and efficient to pull in the same direction but sometimes a scattershot approach is needed.
If you "have to believe" that then I don't think you've ever paid attention to Schumer, honestly. He's been a billionaire shill since before the Iraq war. he's serving his own self interest just as he always has.
See if u guys can get those good people in legal profession to join your fight and not by talking or posting!Must be out there fighting for rule of law, adherence to Const and corrupt govt officials out! Only way now b4 all gone,America lawless country ruled by crooks criminals oligarchs convicts!
In the realm of politics, we have 4 levels of fights in ascending order of importance:
1) policy details
2) policy priorities
3) who gets to participate
4) how they get to participate (what kind of govt we have, democracy, autocracy, etc).
There may be people you are aligned with on 1 and 2 who
Are not aligned on 3 and 4 and vice-a-versa. And a lot of lefties need to get it straight really quick. No one whose political awakening came 00-03 is going to get outdone on hating Dick Cheney by some 20-something. But goddammit, Cheney endorsing Harris was not proof she was some
Right wing hack. Cheney at least sees the overriding value that the US as a stable democracy, even it is democracy lite and even if that value is shareholder value and not the moral righteousness of people's self governance.
Yeah sometimes this even means swallowing your pride when the other partners take a gratuitous cheap shot. I know that, for my own part, I still get suckered into arguing with liberals, I’m trying to cool it, though.
Yes, resist, fight, and win first. Argue about policy later. The majority of the best legislation produced by our various iterations of Congress has been bipartisan and required compromise on both sides of the aisle. Of course, back in the day, you could trust that each side would follow norms.
Agreed. Mostly. Hard to reconcile with people that have voted for my destruction. The conservative policies that have ultimately led us to where we are was by design
Your leftist friend who hates Trump but thinks horoscopes are true? An ally. Your right-wing friend who hates Trump but says his drinking buddies are “retarded?” Yup. Also an ally. We’re building an army here folks. You can say retarded in fox holes.
Ultimately, if they're committed enough to opposing Trump, it's much likelier for them to come around on trans rights than not. That basically already happened with millions of wine mom resist libs
Your old-school arch-conservative who hates trump but has been arguing for ridding the government of health, social services, and regulatory agencies since the 90s?
Your brother in law who doesn't like trump but thinks immigration is a crisis and women and minorities should stay in their place?
what the fuck is this response? it is a legitimate question - is opposing Trump sufficient to be deemed against fascism? what if you are also rabidly homophobic or misogynistic?
This is what I want to know. Using Bill Kristol as an example of someone we can collaborate with because he's "antifascist" makes me think they don't actually know what the word "antifascist" means lol. this guy is probably using "fascist" to mean "trump" but Trump isn't the only fascist
Yes and - I think this has to be done with certain understandings that we work together for this one common goal but we're not like - all subsuming ourselves under the most powerful portion of the coalition forever - and we still get to disagree about important shit at the end of the day.
I'm a SM peon, but the oncoming train was pretty obvious to anyone paying attention the last 10 years. I posted the thread below basically saying speak clearly about the situation and show a united front. One of my biggest disappointments is the lack of a coordinated effort by Blue state governors:
Unite, and rally behind the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which was written to protect all people of all nations, after the bottomless horrors of WW2.
This. This. This. And if anyone argues, then they need to read about the Spanish Republic and the Civil War. There were so many chances for the popular front to work and instead people searched for a reason to not do it. (Except Stalin. He didn’t need to search for reasons; he was just himself)
The need for a Popular Front exists here as much as in France in the 30s and, like then, there is a large spoken and unspoken “Better Hitler than Blum” crowd who are just as dangerous to it as the actual fascists
Yes, but any effective coalition needs to have some benchmark core values to coalesce around, otherwise the coalition is doomed to fracture and ultimately failed. IMO, anyone willing to throw vulnerable communities (immigrants, LGBTQ+, BIPOC) under the bus, isn’t worth allying with.
Especially considering that demonizing vulnerable communities is like theeee bench mark of fascism. So people who are willing to do that are collaborators.
Which is to say I have more confidence in coalition with @billkristolbulwark.bsky.social than @schumer.senate.gov right now, and I find that extremely demoralizing. Because Kristol is an architect of the terrible situation in which we will find ourselves and Schumer should be a leader/ally to me.
💯
The moment doesn’t call for grievances, waste of time.
Trump the Inferno created a new test of morality.
Schumer is George Costanza pushing the old & children out of his way to escape a fire at a party.
Kristol grew into something new.
Recalibrate.
This is exactly where I am. Recently, I've been using Kristol as an example during post-talk Q&As. My politics came of age in opposition to what he was selling. But at the moment, I see him as more of an ally than waffling centrists and "anti-woke" leftists. We can disagree again when we win.
He also seems to be changing some of his positions (not all, he's still at best a centrist) as he realizes how destructive they are and how they contributed to the rise of a fascist party. Max Boot went through a similar shift. I'd trust him, too.
I see people no longer chained to the capitalist wheel and free to speak their conscience without concern for their financial well-being or standing among their peers.
Not complaining, only observing.
Notwithstanding, Bill Kristol created the PNAC that inspired Dumbya's oil wars... crazy times.✌🏻
The other thing about kristol is that he seems to realize the common cause has to go both directions. As opposed to someone like Yglesias whose position is that we join up to fight Trumpism by bashing the left.
Bloody Bill Kristol has a LOT of blood on his hands, which I will NEVER forget, but Perry is correct that Kristol is more clearsighted about the current situation than many of the professional Dem centrist losers.
A popular front is oriented around only one thing: fighting the fascists. That’s it. Not intra-coalition disagreements. Not rehashing past arguments (I’m bad at this one, but working on it). Not saying “we tried to warn you but …”
And it’s tricky, because part of the movement is figuring out what to do next, and that often involves rehashing our grievances. But that’s the main work right now. Look for fighters. Organize together. Understand it’s going to involve all of us putting some shit aside.
We need to start microtargeting MAGA folks on social media. We need to soften their base and maybe, God-willing, bring some of them back into the light. We need an all-out effort on our information spaces.
IMO, popular-front allies cannot be bigoted to each other while we're doing the work. So bigots have to agree to behave decently toward the people they hate during the coalition. And those who can should be intermediaries to minimize marginalized folks' exposure to bigots during the work.
Yes. And no. It depends on how existential the fight is.
Example: In WW2, Russia originally sided with the Nazis. They signed a treaty, invaded Poland and sent war support to Germany - until Hitler invaded them.
They were bad then, too, but we DID ally with them against Hitler. We had to.
This is a tricky one! I can't help but think of Azov in Ukraine, which was certainly a Nazi group. But as Russia's invasion escalated, they more than pulled their weight and I think by now the Nazi elements have been pushed out.
Priority 1 is hold the line against global authoritarianism.
This is exactly right. Right now for better or for worse the Democratic Party is the only vehicle to oppose Trump. There is no time to form a 3rd party or something else.
We can’t ask Chuck Schumer to be something he’s incapable of being - it’s why it was a mistake to make him minority leader this cycle. It was the perfect time to break with that generation. Opportunity missed. The base & the House are going to have to do it.
The alternative is the fractious Spanish Republicans in the 1930s. The coalition, mind you, turned on each other and started shooting at each other as Franco’s fascists neared victory.
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Because the opposite is sociopathy.
1) policy details
2) policy priorities
3) who gets to participate
4) how they get to participate (what kind of govt we have, democracy, autocracy, etc).
There may be people you are aligned with on 1 and 2 who
Has this ever stopped fascism, historically? Cause i know it failed in Italy, Spain, and Germany pretty spectacularly. And portugal. And chile.
it often depends on what each other's priorities are
Most of the things he's doing are exactly what they have said they wanted for 50 years.
Embracing fascism.
And therein lies the problem. Some “issues of contention” are over basic human rights that many would rather ignore.
Your brother in law who doesn't like trump but thinks immigration is a crisis and women and minorities should stay in their place?
Fuck you, guy, come on.
But yes.
We _need_ a bigger boat when they're attacking the very concept of being left-wing as anathema.
Well, now it’s Musk
https://bsky.app/profile/jgt1960.bsky.social/post/3lkbaojcens27
You’d like @nathantankus.bsky.social stuff if you’re not already familiar
We all are born with these rights, and fascism seeks to destroy every one of our them. Know your rights!! https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights
The moment doesn’t call for grievances, waste of time.
Trump the Inferno created a new test of morality.
Schumer is George Costanza pushing the old & children out of his way to escape a fire at a party.
Kristol grew into something new.
Recalibrate.
Not complaining, only observing.
Notwithstanding, Bill Kristol created the PNAC that inspired Dumbya's oil wars... crazy times.✌🏻
Fighting the administration by attacking the opposition to the administration is...silly.
Example: In WW2, Russia originally sided with the Nazis. They signed a treaty, invaded Poland and sent war support to Germany - until Hitler invaded them.
They were bad then, too, but we DID ally with them against Hitler. We had to.
Priority 1 is hold the line against global authoritarianism.