Nothing has radicalized me on immigration more than graduate advising. We are bringing many of the most brilliant people on the planet here, paying to train them as cutting edge scholars, and then making it pointlessly difficult for them to stay here and use those skills to benefit society. - ThreadSky

jacobmontgomery.bsky.social • 399 days ago

Nothing has radicalized me on immigration more than graduate advising.

We are bringing many of the most brilliant people on the planet here, paying to train them as cutting edge scholars, and then making it pointlessly difficult for them to stay here and use those skills to benefit society.

Reposted from Jacob T. Levy

If the border were open, they would be coming legally.

Since it's not, here's what "coming legally" looks like.

www.cato.org/blog/why-leg...

Comments

ericwzc.bsky.social•399 days ago

My parents came to the US on a student visa and then transitioned to visa sponsorship by a company. I was 1 year old. We got our green cards when I was in 4th grade. We got citizenship when I was a freshman in college.

garnede.bsky.social•399 days ago

That’s a long process! I can’t imagine living in a country for as long as I can remember and not being a citizen until after adulthood.

dezene.me•399 days ago

When I was in 🇺🇸 as a postdoc (from 🇨🇦) my visa said I had to return to 🇨🇦 for a number of years before attempting to return to 🇺🇸. The point, as I recall it, was so that 🇺🇸 could train people but not be a brain drain. In the case of 🇨🇦 no big deal. But other countries really need expertise to return.

bjornbert.nafofellas.com•399 days ago

So you couldn’t visit the US for years afterwards??

torshi.bsky.social•398 days ago

Working in big tech, exact same. Colleagues are consistently so top notch, and we put them through so much absolute bullshit to get and maintain their ability to work

salvagni.org•399 days ago

I deal with this all the time as well. Infuriating and quite honestly, embarrassing.

dougwiser.bsky.social•389 days ago

I think that is a new form of "brain drain"

sumitapahwa.bsky.social•399 days ago

I'm glad to hear that...as a non-US grad student, I was so stunned by how much time and money we had to spend, how much precarity we had to deal with, and how little anyone - advisors, fellow students, anyone - seemed to know or care.

jacobmontgomery.bsky.social•399 days ago

It is one of many costs international students carry. And yes, we talk about it (and doing) far too little.

limubaibol.bsky.social•399 days ago

Advance parole is the absolute zenith of legalized corruption. It would make Bernie Madoff blush.

diegoatlaw.bsky.social•398 days ago

It’s allowed by the law, and is severely underused, idgi

emmalbriant.bsky.social•399 days ago

Well - it also can be 'positive for society' if those highly trained people choose to go back to their country of origin. The world doesn't benefit from a brain drain. But it's also good for them of course to have options.

hisbpf.bsky.social•399 days ago

Good point, you made it better than I did.

richpuchalsky.bsky.social•399 days ago

"use those skills to benefit society" is some strange mixture of liberalism as empire building and American exceptionalism, as if *our* society is the only one that counts or the only one in which a scholar can work

ncweaver.skerry-tech.com•399 days ago

If I was in charge there would be a list of majors/universities where "you get a Ph.D. on the chart you get a greencard. Thanks!"

lydiabeeyoobee.bsky.social•399 days ago

The UK has actually started doing this.

danimadu.bsky.social•399 days ago

No, it is not like that in the UK. You just get the possibility to apply later for a work visa, which is very different from a green card (this would be the ILR in the UK).

isomorphism.net•399 days ago

I have been working at Caltech for twenty plus years and the Trump admin during the pandemic was ruthlessly inhumane.

rainsurname.bsky.social•399 days ago

I worked there 20+ years ago. Oddly enough, I was describing the best egg salad sandwich I've ever had, which I got at a place nearby at least twice a week, just yesterday.

erikangner.com•399 days ago

Same here :(

ajslater.bsky.social•399 days ago

See also: hiring in tech. Truly brilliant people the government is fighting to remove from American companies.

carolinefan.bsky.social•399 days ago

I sponsored a Brown School student for OPT this past year. She applied to grad schools and didn't get in.

Now she is back in China. I would've adopted her if it would've made any difference.

myownresearch.net•399 days ago

Radicalized is such a strong term for "my parents fucked on this side of the imaginary line'.

I'm glad you're here, but don't forget how stupid this is in the first place.

goldstein.bsky.social•399 days ago

Alternate view: the US is helping to educate and uplift the rest of the world without brain draining it. Many of those brilliant immigrants only come to the US because of economic/political situations in their country exacerbated by the US and further worsened by a lack of qualified people.

gearoidmm.bsky.social•399 days ago

So it’s ok then to punish the people who do want to stay by making it Byzantine and capricious? There’s nothing more fun than making plans to leave the country precipitously because a rule change by the Trump administration has led to a rejection of a previously straightforward visa renewal

gearoidmm.bsky.social•399 days ago

3 months waiting for a letter to tell you if your life has been completely upended or not. Making contingency plans for school and accommodation if it doesn’t work out. All because of a new paperwork requirement that was designed to punish people already here on professional visas.

limubaibol.bsky.social•399 days ago

Yup. Legal immigration is so broken. There was a phenomenal interview about 15 off years ago on NPR about an illegal immigrant who was a brick layer. And I was like, how can this guy navigate the legal bureaucracy or afford the fees??? I had a graduate degree and the top law firm on my side.

nocleverhandle.bsky.social•398 days ago

It would very much be in the US interest to issue a green card to any foreign student who earns a degree from a US institution.

hisbpf.bsky.social•399 days ago

Sincere question. In many cases, would it not be morally better that many or most return home and use their training to help develop their own society, if they come from a country much less wealthy and developed than the USA? Should the OECD countries be draining all the brains? Not a new issue.

drsuzanne.bsky.social•399 days ago

I got to teach a citizenship class to ppl who were preparing for the test, and it was so gratifying when they became citizens. Def one of my more fulfilling jobs. It certainly says something that they got so far in the process. It was through a community college, so these weren’t highly educated ppl

te-ara-paerangi.community•399 days ago

See further New Zealand.

rheumecraig.bsky.social•399 days ago

Amen. Similar for doctors. We train all these residents that end up having to leave due t immigration laws (or have an impossibly difficult time continuing work), but meanwhile have shortages of MDs all over.

shawnconnery.bsky.social•399 days ago

And treat them like shit in the process.

bluememe.bsky.social•399 days ago

Fear not: conservatives are working hard to solve this problem by preventing/discouraging them from coming here to study in the first place.

axamaqueda.bsky.social•399 days ago

Even of the complicated immigration rules are fixed, it's OK if people choose to leave.

chickenlady.bsky.social•399 days ago

Germany is even worse in that regard and the UK is breaking international law .
Meanwhile at MAL and other hotels:

carolinefan.bsky.social•399 days ago

Birthright citizenship is a fundamental part of the constitution. We cannot start picking and choosing if people from one country are able to have that right or not.

chickenlady.bsky.social•399 days ago

I think you missed the point.
By a football stadium

juliaazari.bsky.social•399 days ago

What amazes me is how... offended? Some people are about immigration. I am personally very proud to live in a country that so many people want to come to. (Even as I know that's not an entirely rosy situation) And ashamed of the ignorance and hostility that seem to have swept over some of us.

profkeithdevlin.bsky.social•399 days ago

When my family and I immigrated in 1987, we were very warmly welcomed. Though that was in California, which has always seen immigrants as contributors to its highly successful economy. Since Trump, I travel to a Red state only if there's a pressing reason, and leave asap. (Ditto parts of CA & OR)

edballister.bsky.social•399 days ago

I’m from CA, I love CA, but sadly CA has not “always seen immigrants as contributors” and welcomed them warmly 😔

ennael.bsky.social•399 days ago

True, Orange County, where I lived for several years has a terrible history. I loved hearing all the languages though. As beautiful as birdsong

sotsogm.bsky.social•399 days ago

I'm also proud to live in a country that's a casserole of cultures and people from all over the world. Not just that people want to come here, but the place they want to come to is a cosmopolitan melange with a big French statue standing at one of the entrances inviting everybody in.

goldstein.bsky.social•399 days ago

I would have felt a lot better about coming to America if it weren't for the fact that America (and Kissinger specifically) helped install the military regime that forced my family to flee in the first place.

anniebkay.bsky.social•399 days ago

Yes it is confusing. I believe & see that diversity is our strength. I welcome us becoming increasingly mixed and worldly. It seems like a virus, this fear-hate-scapegoating of anyone different. Hoping that this is how it feels to inch forward, but man.

juliaazari.bsky.social•399 days ago

(By an entirely rosy situation- I mean for folks coming here and fleeing awful circumstances)

thurberteam.bsky.social•399 days ago

Look, the dilemma for immigrants, women & people of color is how to achieve basic, humane, and decent treatment, without sparking the backlash from the people who need some one to blame for whatever.

natalievotes.bsky.social•398 days ago

Concise and extraordinarily accurate.

helchose.bsky.social•399 days ago

I totally agree with this.

birchduck.bsky.social•399 days ago

My co-workers have taken about 10 years. One joined the national guard to hopefully make it easier, which doesn't seem like the right reason to become a soldier (but neither does "I need to get out of here!" Or "I can't afford college")

boshyboo.bsky.social•399 days ago

America has been putting guns in the hands of hungry ppl since the beginning, I just didn't realize the national guard was the one doing it now. Did it help them expedite the process?

birchduck.bsky.social•399 days ago

I've moved on, but last I heard it "got messed up on the government end" and was going to take longer. He was still hopeful.

boshyboo.bsky.social•398 days ago

😞🙏

adw.bsky.social•398 days ago

The UK too. It’s so gross

atlemar.bsky.social•399 days ago

In 2006, the Republican candidate for Senate in Washington said green cards should be stapled to the diploma of every foreign graduate.

wendelschwab.bsky.social•399 days ago

Canada has a very generous path to permanent residency (equivalent of a green card) for students, and the government recently put some restrictions in place, but excluded grad students from those restrictions.

Spouses of grad students on a student visa can even get work visas in Canada.

drsuzanne.bsky.social•399 days ago

I couldn’t get any of these benefits as a phd graduate. The process was such a hassle that I just left.

danielsereduick.bsky.social•399 days ago

Immigration in France has been one of those things here where my American childhood makes me feel like I'm secretly breaking a rule or getting one over on them and they're like "nah you good, enjoy your stay"

danielsereduick.bsky.social•399 days ago

Health care feels like that every time

chieflotsahair.bsky.social•399 days ago

I learned a little of the struggle from international friends in college. Most ended up in another country after graduation because it was easier than staying in the US.

ennael.bsky.social•399 days ago

A friend of mine from Canada had to go back after living here for years after graduating with a PhD. I wonder if the process would have been smoother if hadn’t switched from computer programming to poetry.

ennael.bsky.social•399 days ago

Perhaps not since so many brilliant graduates in the sciences have to leave

chieflotsahair.bsky.social•398 days ago

I haven’t kept up with everyone but I think the ones who got to stay the longest became a tennis coach in the Hamptons and the other went I to hospitality. All the science, tech, and engineering people went back home mostly.

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