It’s also just an absolute logistical nightmare. Most people have some way of proving where they were born. How many people have readily available documentary proof of their parents’ citizenship status? - ThreadSky

normative.bsky.social • 77 days ago

It’s also just an absolute logistical nightmare. Most people have some way of proving where they were born. How many people have readily available documentary proof of their parents’ citizenship status?

Reposted from mtsw

The birthright citizenship portion of the US Constitution is totally, inarguably unambiguous. No wiggle room. If the supreme court agrees to throw it out they are explicitly throwing out the entire document and our entire system of government.

Comments

castroforgeorgia.com•77 days ago

The only way for this to work is for mass detention before mass deportation. Expect friends and family members to go missing while they get processed by the military. Similar to Japanese internment camps during a WW2.

alwaysagoodday.com•77 days ago

My great grandfather lied to get his.....

squee127.bsky.social•76 days ago

As an adoptee, I cannot. However, I do have some info including ancestry and my bio dad was 100% Irish

So, if they would like to deport me to Ireland, I can be packed and ready to go very quickly

twoforscuba.bsky.social•76 days ago

Same. My great grands are from Ireland. I’ll gladly go.

mcconn318.bsky.social•77 days ago

They do not care!

martysalo.bsky.social•77 days ago

The capital by dawn! And thus, the empire collapses.

ireneadlercal.bsky.social•77 days ago

Bummer for those Latino Trump voters and their families. 🐆 🤓

arrogantmonkey.bsky.social•77 days ago

The class of plaintiffs for the lawsuit will be every single child born in the United States

twoforscuba.bsky.social•76 days ago

My neighbors who voted for this fascist are about to find out and probably have to move back to Asia.

mynahleague.bsky.social•77 days ago

Exactly

merlevans.bsky.social•77 days ago

The same people that go apoplectic with indignation about the sanctity of the 2nd amendment, if we suggest any controls on guns or gun ownership, now want to just casually wave off the 14th amendment?

scikeefe.bsky.social•77 days ago

What is key here is not whether people have these rights or documentation, it’s about who is considered undesirable and not worthy of citizenship or human rights. Oldest playbook

jakepe.bsky.social•77 days ago

Which is the point. Whiteness will be an acceptable form of proof, though.

oyveidt.bsky.social•77 days ago

They don’t care about paperwork they’re just trying to get people into custody without a fight because then it’s super easy to get them into the gas chambers and ovens.

dburbach.bsky.social•77 days ago

And how far back to they take the chain? If your grandparents were not US citizens, does that invalidate your parents' citizenship, and thus yours too?

docdarnell.bsky.social•77 days ago

And to what extent for those naturalized? I'm a foreign-born adoptee and naturalized citizen. Would I need to get my parents' birth certificates?

jadetoblack.bsky.social•77 days ago

Yes, some are records from the 40's. My mom was born to a 15 yo sent to the US to live with her aunt to avoid the shame, she went back to Italy within days of my mom's birth. Mom does have her adoption papers. Do adopted folks get a pass? What about 1 parent who's a citizen and 1 parent who isn't?

redsonja.bsky.social•77 days ago

I do not. And though I was born in Washington, DC, my mom was a naturalized citizen.

jerseyjak.bsky.social•77 days ago

What about people who were adopted? Not going to be easy to track all that documentation down, especially if you don’t know who the father was.

garrettfesler.bsky.social•77 days ago

Appeasement to fascism did not work in the 1930s, and we believe it will not work against Trump/MAGA. There are no longer any political solutions.

Our full statement can be found here:

https://chng.it/spZGnMD4Gh

lfschleusener.bsky.social•77 days ago

I mean, if they wanted parents who were citizens, they should’ve been born to Federalist Society members

mfperry.bsky.social•77 days ago

As a genealogist not only do I have my parents but also my grandparents birth certificates. They were not easy to obtain, it took months and a lot of money. None of them ever applied for passports so there’s a problem. Some marriage documents state place of birth.

wheystandard.bsky.social•77 days ago

In their theory of citizenship though, your parents place of birth isn’t enough, on its own, to prove their (and therefore your) citizenship. You’d have to find some in your lineage being naturalized, or else present at the founding of the country.

mfperry.bsky.social•77 days ago

Almost impossible.

raisinmountaineer.bsky.social•77 days ago

But birth certificates won’t count if birthright citizenship is overturned…. I’ve got nothing other than birthright going back 200 years. And a lot of the ones before were born, lived and died as British citizens. If it wasn’t so frightening and legit a problem for so many, it could be funny.

gratialeger.bsky.social•77 days ago

My father was born in 1926 in a state that did not have birth certificates. Which means that his parents, grandparents, gr-grandparents, and gr-gr grandparents who were born there also didn't.

avianandloaded.bsky.social•77 days ago

They've been trying to do that since FDR died. This can't be a surprise to anyone.

creyna.bsky.social•77 days ago

If they ask tell them to go eat dirt, or rocks, or grass… up to them.

nrvschultz.bsky.social•77 days ago

For anyone who can’t prove it, the answer will be simple: If Trump likes you, your parents were citizens when you were born. If he doesn’t like you, well, you have a problem.

ypsidoodle.bsky.social•77 days ago

Seems to me that the chaos is the point, no? The greater the chaos, the greater the justification for harsher measures and bringing in private groups.

jillsomebody.bsky.social•76 days ago

Do most people have a way of proving where they were born, really? I don't think most people have a copy of their birth certificate in their wallet (if at all) do they?

normative.bsky.social•76 days ago

I mean, not in their wallet. But yeah. You need one to get a passport, among other things.

normative.bsky.social•76 days ago

And you can generally get your own birth certificate reissued if it’s been lost or destroyed and you need a copy for something.

treefrogjohn.bsky.social•77 days ago

I know that I don’t and they have passed. I’m probably off the hook because I’m white and have an Anglo last name.

drkguenther.bsky.social•77 days ago

Thanks to Ancestry, I do have proof of ancestors' birth in the United States (and, prior to that, the British Empire). I also have access to their naturalization records in the 18th and 19th centuries. I do not, however, know where my birth certificate is located.

mrspnkrsnow.bsky.social•77 days ago

Order a certified copy -now- from your birth state's Office of Vital Statistics (whatever the equivalent name is there).

rationalpear.bsky.social•77 days ago

the question is how does his manifest? how does the trump admin try to enforce the absence of citizenship? remove from voter rolls? will they start investigating birth records in states? cutting of social security benefits? what does project 2025 say. we must prepare.

dmbaker88.bsky.social•77 days ago

Take this a step further and if he requires both parents to physically be in the country at the time you were born. This would be disastrous as there are so many military, government personnel, and employees working overseas that it would mean millions would be denied their citizenship.

normative.bsky.social•77 days ago

I don’t think anyone has proposed that, though.

dmbaker88.bsky.social•66 days ago

Not that they have announced but I assure you, that racist jackwagon Miller has discussed it. Just because they haven't said the quiet part out loud, doesn't mean they ain't talkin.

av8r.bsky.social•77 days ago

Yes, it was a logistical nightmare for Hitler too when he decided to deport all of the German Jews. Detainment camps could not be sustained. So, he killed them. We will witness the same now in the United States.

joestepansky.bsky.social•77 days ago

I know my mother wasn't a US citizen when I was born because I went to her naturalization ceremony when I was in high school. I have no idea when my father became a US citizen, but I know he was.

But tell you what. I'll show Don, Don Jr, Eric, Jared, etc. a copy of my DD-214 if they show me theirs.

mcmegan.bsky.social•77 days ago

If your parents died and had an estate, chances are good you've got their birth certificate.

normative.bsky.social•76 days ago

Assuming that qualifies and they at least assume birthright citizenship for people born before some date, that still seems likely to leave a whole lot of people out in the cold.

mikusa.bsky.social•77 days ago

Except for the Atlantic Black people in America everyone else may find a sketchy truth about their citizenship status. Best to keep that Amendment before you wind up deporting your own kids. Or make a firm start date for ending birthright citizenship—also by Constitutional Amendment

judyhasthoughts.bsky.social•77 days ago

Melania trump became a US citizen in 2006. So he'll have to start with Barron, right?

lhes.bsky.social•77 days ago

My father-in-law was born on the family farm without documentation. He lied about his age and served in the South Pacific at 16. At some later date, the Army did question his lack of birth certificate, investigated, and resolved the issue to their satisfaction, but none of his kids know how.

lisadtrice.bsky.social•77 days ago

I do.

kevinmkruse.bsky.social•77 days ago

Their parents’ citizenship status from precisely when the kid was born.

hkfinan.bsky.social•77 days ago

Yes, because record keeping in the early 20th century (for some) was absolutely ironclad (eyeroll)

gremblecrunch.bsky.social•77 days ago

Yikes. I was born overseas and given a US state dept birth certificate. My mother was born in Europe and naturalized in NYC as an adult. What does that make me (and my sister too- and her daughter has a Hungarian born father). Dad is Mayflower, will that be enough. I have a very American story!!

napoleon-the-pig.bsky.social•77 days ago

it just occurred to me that to prove my parents, even if i have there us birth certificates, don't i also have to prove their parents, and to prove them i need prove their parents . . .

philtor.bsky.social•77 days ago

Everybody but native Americans would have to leave.

napoleon-the-pig.bsky.social•77 days ago

or until you get to someone who has paperwork that they were naturalized which wouldn't depend on their parents being citizens

napoleon-the-pig.bsky.social•77 days ago

not even 50%

piglet42.bsky.social•76 days ago

"logistical nightmare" could be a feature, not a bug. It doesn't matter to them if their deportations are arbitrary.

nedinmo.bsky.social•77 days ago

His kids first, except Tiffany. All the others have mothers born elsewhere.

jholbo.bsky.social•77 days ago

Why should any of that documentary proof be valid if the 14A is nullified? One reason for the 14A was 'citizen' was kinda unclear before. & if you pull that rug out, how many are going to have records of their great-great-great-grandfather's naturalisation? https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/49082/us-citizenship-prior-to-the-14th-amendment

hesterlatterly.bsky.social•77 days ago

And how far back would this go? For example, I have two great-grandparents who immigrated to the US as young children. I am assuming they became naturalized citizens at some point, but I don't know when in relation to when their children were born.

martyjustus.bsky.social•77 days ago

The same court gave Trump immunity, don't you think they have already thrown it out, stepped on it and used it for toilet paper?

iplayguitarbad.bsky.social•77 days ago

To the Trump team, this is probably a feature not a bug. In their view, it's likely better to err on the side of deportations because they're evil. Their base will 100% support this approach.

dconrad.bsky.social•77 days ago

Their base will think if someone was deported, they must have deserved it, otherwise they wouldn't have been deported, right?

gbaji.bsky.social•77 days ago

Enforcement need not be practical. The fear of it is sufficient.

ex-fso.bsky.social•77 days ago

Yes. Some people born in USA are exceptions to general rule that birth here confers citizenship. Also, many persons born abroad are US citizens at birth. Documenting what status your parents and grandparents had, and when they had it, could be a nightmare.

noupside.bsky.social•77 days ago

Italy just changed citizenship laws on Oct 10 — I was midway through the process. It’s created an insane logistical nightmare and tons of court cases. And it wasn’t even done to fuck people over and deport them.

ekatj.bsky.social•77 days ago

Does this affect claiming citizenship because your parent was born there?

noupside.bsky.social•77 days ago

My dad’s a dual citizen but was born here. But my grandparents naturalized while he was a minor, which technically broke my lineage under their new law. “The minor issue” their consulates are calling it. It takes nearly 3 years so there are a LOT of ppl who had applications in progress and now 🤷🏻‍♀️.

ekatj.bsky.social•77 days ago

I see. My dad was born there and my family still lives there. I know the process is long. Every process in Italy takes a long time; it's bureaucratic hell. I'll have to research further. Sounds like I'll be ok, but my kids won't. Thanks for the info.

noupside.bsky.social•77 days ago

The sheer amount of time spent trying to actually track down documents is insane bc you have to get their naturalization papers and birth, marriage certificates. A nightmare of paperwork even under what was zero pressure.

spirit-green1278.bsky.social•77 days ago

Four Trump's children have immigrant mothers. They won't even know where to start, legally. It's easy to say, so they say it. They may even put out some BS smoke screens. Scare certain groups of immigrants, make lives of targeted people miserable... They are good at this.

dconrad.bsky.social•77 days ago

Trump's children won't have to start. Their immigration status will never be questioned.

spirit-green1278.bsky.social•77 days ago

Exactly. That's why I say "legally." They will test the democratic legal system.

margek.bsky.social•77 days ago

I'm amazed at the number of people here trying to make it about themselves. Of all the bad things that are going to happen, no one is going to go after an adult's birthright citizenship. They'll use it against the kids of undocumented people as they deputy them or newborns.

danaclark.bsky.social•77 days ago

This is my concern too.

margek.bsky.social•77 days ago

*deport

philtor.bsky.social•77 days ago

I've gotta wonder if this is a backdoor way to remove citizenship from people they don't like. Someone could have been born to US citizens, but if they can't prove that their parents were citizens and don't have the resources to mount a legal battle they could be thrown out.

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