Don’t love the preemptive pardons. I appreciate the desire to protect public servants from Trump’s lawless threats, but it suggests guilt, sets a dangerous precedent and necessarily omits others who are at risk.
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cool, the thing is republicans don't care about precedent or guilt, they just do what they want so maybe dems should get off their asses and do the same
Dr. Fauci is 84 years old. He shouldn't be dragged through ridiculous Congress hearings designed for dehumanization. I'm glad they all got the pardons and don't have to spend endless amounts of money for lawyers.
Me neither, but a lot of the little guys, staffers on the Jan 6 committee and Capitol police, don’t have the resources to hire lawyers. They, more than the others, need the protection of the pardons.
At any other moment in US history you would be right. This is not that moment since Trump will pursue people regardless of guilt. That’s the kind of person he is. He’s made that clear.
It doesn't suggest guilt to me. It suggests protecting those who tried to expose a wannabe dictator from his vengeance. Nothing more. Nothing less.
When are people going to get the message that tRump isn't just talking or campaigning. He actually means what he's saying.
Let’s not get it twisted. Trump’s vindictive malevolence is the root cause of this change in longstanding practice. The norms and precedents don’t apply anymore squarely due to Trump. I’m glad Biden has taken this action.
These are extraordinary times and these preemptive pardons are a reflection of that. That they had to be done at all highlights the lawlessness that this incoming administration represents and that in of itself should never be lost on the public no matter how much the media tries to normalize it.
I don’t know the legal implications of preemptive pardons but, if one doesn’t accept them outright, does that keep the presumption of innocence. It seems that it takes the teeth out of any prosecution. It seems like a loss for DJT, facts come out, no punishments.
He and his minions have intimated Cheney and Milley should face firing squads. I think Biden chose the only option available to protect them at least from the financial ruin of prosecution.
Not this time. We know absolutely that this is not about guilt. It is the acceptance of the threats to life and limb. Period. This is (most unfortunately) the way.
Perhaps in a bit of language evolution, call them protective pardons, not premptive, because I choose to hope that they do protect from unjust and unwarranted revenge. (and my middle name is Pollyanna.)
The people who were pardoned shouldn't be asked to carry this load for the rest of us. At best, being attacked by the new administration would mean financial ruin. Any confidence we may have had in the federal judiciary seems unjustified now in light of recent events.
The only way it suggests guilt is if the media obliges. The AP story mentioned tacit admission of guilt… The writers know better and should be ashamed.
Everyone in this country knows the danger. The law should also protect people from harm. If a pardon does that so be it.
I'm very mixed on it. They're still sitting ducks. You can be sure he's got people looking into Fauci's and Cheney's finances, their families, their families' finances. Looking in every closet for a skeleton. If I were Fauci, I'd be moving to an island in British Columbia.
When you have one President who heads the laws and does everything he can to protect innocent and dutiful people servants from the wrath of a lawless Former and Re-elected President - what could have Biden done to protect these people but still work within the current law structure?
Trump and the GOP break precedents every day and Dems try to hold with customs. This is why Trump was never indicted for 1/6. Like taking a knife to a gun fight.
I’d agree if Trump hadn’t made explicit threats to investigate/prosecute these people. They shouldn’t have to look over their shoulders for four years just because we gave an incompetent, ignorant moron so much power.
I am betting their family members disagree. Desperate times call for desperate measures. Unfortunately, this is where we are at. The old norms of yesterday were thrown out the window in 2015.
While I’d normally agree with this, but when an incoming administration has not only publicly threatened many of these folks and produced a “hit list”
of people they are going after, I’d be more angry if Biden didn’t protect these people who are trying to preserve democracy.
I hear you. I think basic survival takes top priority. Especially considering they would have incarcerated Hunter Biden, making him too vulnerable to harm, over some stale old stuff that lots of magas have done too.
I hate the fact that we’re going to have to push the boundaries of our own morals and integrity to fight back, but sadly, I don’t think we have many options left and we’re also running out of time.
I don’t see presumptive guilt. I see a man trying to protect those who’ve done the right thing from those who’ve done the wrong thing and are about to unleash hell on everyone who’s opposed them.
Yup. Trying to stick to normal is crazy in this moment. It's like being too well mannered to challenge hitler. That sort of dire situation. Playing nice, 'they go low, we go high', is so 8 years ago. This is literally good versus evil. Of course he should pardon them.
I agree. Democrats have always tried to reach across the aisle and look where we are. We’ve had the majority and sat on our hands instead of passing what was needed. We cannot do it any longer.
Biden has overarching immunity. He should not hand that to an orange hitler. And I don't say that lightly. It's like someone who had a chance to disarm hitler way back then. If they choose not to, then 'going high when they go low' is a laughing stock. But not in a funny way, because people die.
I wish these steps weren’t needed but Biden wants to protect them from senseless arrests. A big part of Trumps promises have been retribution against those who tried to make him accountable for his crimes. Given the justice system can’t be trusted, I get it even thought I don’t like it.
Donald Trump had threatened every single one of them with jail. When he threatens, his minions will do the rest without regard to rule of law or truth. It was a justified decision
What makes anyone think Trump and his DOJ will even respect a pardon. If Trump tells Bondi to arrest Fauci, she will, regardless of him having a pardon or not.
Definitely a valid point! But this also: there never was an “enemies’s list” from the incoming FBI director and the incoming “President” said these people should be in jail.
I hate all of this! Ugh.
You’re worried about suggestions of guilt with these individuals in the face of an incoming president who has an ACTUAL felony conviction? Let’s not forget the already-forgotten Smith report on his other charges he got away with.
This is where we are today...that the people who were protecting us need to be protected from the new administration. I'm 64, and I just can't believe what I'm seeing. It's a sad, sad day.
How else do you fight these threats? The law doesn’t work because Trump and his regime ignore it. Worrying about setting a precedent got us where we are today. If that wasn’t such a worry Trump would be in prison now.
you know as well as us why he did it and it's not an admission of guilt. YOU KNOW WHY HE DID IT SO STOP YOUR VIRTUE bs I like you but you're wrong on this. Joe is saving them so much harm that you think they should go through ??????
J6 Committee are true Americans and knew what they were undertaking! To pre-emptively pardon them is assinine and further opens the door to Authoritarianism. The Fat fuck will have people murdered and pre-emptively exonerate their murderers...WTF!
It sets a very dangerous precedent that gives the power of officials to literally kill those they don't agree with on order of their superiors and be pardoned before they even go to trial. WTF.
Milley, Fauci knew who they were getting in bed with when it comes to the fat lyin' NY Scumbag, If they innocent, there is no need for a Pardon or pre-emptive pardon. This moves us 3 steps closer to a dictatorship! Sorry Joe, that was a Retarded move!
I agree with you in principle but trump lies on people so much and if he is going to direct the DOJ to prosecute people for doing their jobs, then a preemptive pardon is the way to go.
I agree with them, no innocent party should have to live with a lifetime of financial and legal woes because a President wants to act like a 4 year old toddler that didn’t get his way…
It only suggests guilt to MAGAts who already believed they were guilty. For those of us who believe in their innocence we are grateful but unhappy that tRumpAss made it necessary!
I respectfully disagree. If he didn’t do it and they were sitting in a prison cell, you’d change your mind. The old rules no longer apply. This is not America anymore.
A dangerous precedent??? Your country elected a convicted felon who has your SCOTUS wrapped around his finger … who has stolen documents in his gold bathroom …maybe that suggests guilt
I agree but those two are old men who have served the US their whole lives. He doesn't want to see them paraded naked through the streets like Cersei Lanaster
I'm an avid follower of #SistersInLaw, but I disagree on this one. This may well have been all that President Biden could do to protect the most endangered among Trump's enemies. I would rather see Liz Cheney and Jamie Raskin using the power of their voices than sitting in a trump prison cell.
I think you are wrong. Why should Fauci be faced with Trump's pathological need to take revenge on those that stood up to him. SCOTUS wouldn't even stand up to him.
We are not in a position as a country to worry about setting dangerous precedents.That high horse thinking is why democrats are losing. The higher the horse, the harder the fall. Let’s stop advocating for the high horse and let’s start fighting the battle for our country eye to eye!
Wake up to reality. We all know it has nothing to do with guilt in these circumstances. And, precedent means nothing. Precedent or no precedent, a future (or pending) president intent on misusing pardon would not consider precedent either way - whether to follow or set.
Finally agree here. Democrats criticize when Trump was flirting with it in 2020. J6 already inmmune and none of seem to have broken the law and not indicted. This gives more to the tyrant to anyone else
I hear understanding and compassion for these people who stood against Hitler and he is now in power to literally have them killed to scare the people from rebelling. Classic Nazism.
@barbmcquade.bsky.social I hope you will read the statements coming out from Dr Fauci, Harry Dunn and others. Will you still have preferred to sacrifice them for precedent?
I really disagree. It must be nice to have access to the money, lawyers, time that will be needed to deal with what is being clearly threatened to do to these people. Many of them do not have those resources. The “oh but the precedent” folks don’t seem to have offered to cover those needs?
Thank God for President Biden. You never know what that Orange Felon will do. Yes it does presume guilt but we know those people did not commit any crimes. So you would want those people brought up in charges? Thank God for President Biden. Sometimes you just have to act.
I don't love them either, but we are living in unprecedented times. The expense alone of the legal battles, let alone the years of harassment, would be too much for most.
Yeah, it’s a bad sign for the rule of law when the next guy is so corrupt that he threatens to investigate innocent people doing service to the country.
Generally speaking, I agree. But, I did hear Rep. Bennie Thompson say that he wouldn't mind getting one. Just guessing that he might not have big bucks to defend himself against MAGA guttersnipes.
I don't think Biden would have done this if he didn't know what was coming. These are not normal times and Dump is not a real President. The dude is selling bitcoin the weekend before he will lie on the Bible. I say go for it.
Due 2 situation 🇺🇸 is in (electing a FELON, who shouldn’t have been able 2 hold office as he incited an insurrection 2 steal last election, above the law treatment by SCOTUS & Cannon)…Biden made the right decision. Precedent is gone by GOP. It blocks Trump’s corruption, it doesn’t imply guilt at all.
I don’t think the precedent threat could be avoided. If the outgoing president declined to pardon the public servants Trump would have set the even more dangerous precedent of trying political opponents and anyone who disagrees with him.
I know it is complicated and read Joyce Vance's opinion too. But I prefer he err on the side of caution and protection. I worry about some left out as well. Did he protect the two election workers from Georgia, I hope so. Do you really think the orange demon won't go after 1/6 committee & witnesses?
Simply as a practical matter, what is the protective effect of such a preemptive pardon? Won’t they have to testify before Congress, be accused of perjury/obstruction, and then be referred to DOJ for prosecution?
I respectfully disagree. We’re not dealing with a sane, decent, law abiding man in trump. He seeks revenge and retribution against people he feels have done him wrong.
President Biden did what had to be done to protect those people.
Sad it’s come to this but so necessary.
You live in a f****** fairytale world where good wins over evil. It didn't happen but we protect the good people anyway we can. Get your head out of the sand. I'm so sick of the delusion of people like you. It's not a normal situation. Trump is a very sick vindictive small man.
Protecting Dr. Fauci et al is paramount under the evil reign of King Trump. In another world, I would agree with you, but this one is far too dangerous.
I don't love it either, but we are about to enter an unprecedented moment in U.S. history with a President who has vowed to use his powers to exact revenge and no other institution seems inclined to stand in his way.
Trump stole the election using Musk. He cheats at everything in his entire life!! We need to demand recounts and investigations into this in every swing state!!
Come on Barb...you act like Trump cares about a pardon. Things have changed, the rules have changed, the Supreme Court has changed. Its not. the same anymore
I don’t feel it suggests guilt. It’s an empathetic move by our President to protect people who tried to save democracy. The 🍊🤡 is going to try and imprison them for no lawful reason and with the government we will have, it will be successful. I applaud this move and don’t give a 💩 about MAGATS
I hear you and my feelings have evolved on this. I don’t want those folks harassed by the DOJ and media, or the circus that would accompany going after them. They did nothing wrong. We all know that. Trump will need to create distractions elsewhere.
If we were living in normal times I’d agree but we aren’t. Normal rules and norms don’t exist with Trump. Not sure what other choice Biden had to protect the truth tellers
Nothing is lawful with DT and you want to talk about law with a convicted felon as president? How many people can’t even vote after leaving prison but you want to talk about precedent! Really! How about presidential immunity. We live in a super pack funded rich funded lawless country for some.
Don’t have to love it. Donald F Trump has shit on all our norms and customs while placing the most virulent racists and fascists in powerful positions. We have to protect ourselves so we can be present for the resistance.
How else could this potential "wrong" be righted?
The maniacal monster would make their lives a living hell as he would sadistically bankrupt his enemies (even IF they were to win in court!).
I am sure you've considered both sides of it, but can't you make the case that Trump is an unprecedented president and his presidency calls for unprecedented steps? I also believe the suggestion of guilt will be overlooked "because it's Trump."
Understood. However, Trump going after those people will break them financially. Attorneys to defend them in investigations that are retribution can cost $1 million or more. That’s a huge penalty for serving your country.
If Nikki Haley was being sworn in today, would Biden have issued these pardons? Of course not. They were issued because Trump is vindictive. End of story.
Keep your norms.Do you think it’s moral to leave those who did their jobs with expertise and honor, who upheld the Constitution and who are being threatened by name by the Nazi Trump regime to be persecuted? Not everyone is willing to sell their souls like your old friends on Morning Joe.
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https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/236/79/
By watching 2 minutes of the Pam Bondi hearing with Cash Patel on deck - it becomes overwhelmingly clear these are cult zealots not public servants.
When are people going to get the message that tRump isn't just talking or campaigning. He actually means what he's saying.
Typical media response.
Everyone in this country knows the danger. The law should also protect people from harm. If a pardon does that so be it.
Absolutely none of us need a patronizing lecture about our own goddamn safety right now.
We are way past dangerous precedents so put down your fucking butter knife, this is a gun fight.
We’ve been bringing knives to gunfights.
Biden did the right thing.
We are losing. You think trump will abide by norms? He’s already grifted billions more with his crypto scam.
We can no longer toe the line.
of people they are going after, I’d be more angry if Biden didn’t protect these people who are trying to preserve democracy.
Most of them would kill their own grandmothers without being asked if they thought it would make Trump happy.
And a few of them *cough* JD Vance *cough* would probably kill their own children.
I hate all of this! Ugh.
We’re playing horseshoes they’re playing handgrenades
I'd rather the pardons than any one be punished for being good and right.
Times they are a-changing.
I was against the Hunter pardon until I realized how poisoned Mitch and Trump and years of GOP rigging F'd up our courts.
Here we are.
are necessary
How is his issuing pardons in this case "suggesting guilt"? What is Cheney guilty of? What is Fauci guilty of? What is Milley guilty of?
I totally agree on the "omits others who are at risk".
Especially the Vindmans, Fiona, Cassidy, Judge Luttig... etc
So many left in danger.
https://bsky.app/profile/joycewhitevance.bsky.social/post/3lg7ngqv7qc2j
Except Trump is a criminal, and Republicans no longer adhere to precedent, norms or guidelines.
That ship sailed
Why not? I have yet to get an answer on this other than "if they aren't guilty why pardon them"?
I mean... are you fucking kidding me?!?! 🤯
Focus on pointing out the real criminals.
He should have done more.
President Biden did what had to be done to protect those people.
Sad it’s come to this but so necessary.
It up
None of this is normal.
The maniacal monster would make their lives a living hell as he would sadistically bankrupt his enemies (even IF they were to win in court!).