just once i want to see someone saying stuff like "straight people shouldn't tell queer stories" explain how that's not fully synonymous with "closeted artists are obligated to publicly come out or else never make queer art" & even better "questioning artists don't get to explore shit through art" - ThreadSky

asneakyfox.bsky.social • 6 days ago

just once i want to see someone saying stuff like "straight people shouldn't tell queer stories" explain how that's not fully synonymous with "closeted artists are obligated to publicly come out or else never make queer art" & even better "questioning artists don't get to explore shit through art"

Comments

r3dleprechaun.bsky.social•6 days ago

That 1st of all but also 1-if we're asking for representation in collaborative arts like films and TV we need straight people to also work on queer rep unless we want queer people to be segregated to queer media.
2- stories and art shouldn't be white cis-het only, even when they're written by them

r3dleprechaun.bsky.social•6 days ago

Like how often have we complained when a movie or a book was only cis-het white men with no attempt at having diversity.

kristalllkula.bsky.social•6 days ago

praxis is making lists of the writers (many of whom are not David Jenkins) and googling superficial personal information about them in order to prove that they’re not qualified to write OFMD

asneakyfox.bsky.social•6 days ago

i hadn't looked at that classic post in a while but it's very striking how EVERY "cishet" except for david jenkins has "as far as i know" appended after it

kristalllkula.bsky.social•6 days ago

it’s almost like it’s a pointless exercise that folds immediately under scrutiny because it’s weird

zstraps.bsky.social•5 days ago

pathological need for categorization i fear 🥲 for the statement to be true there has to be a binary between queer and not-queer stories and between queer and not-queer people, and that’s not how people or stories work

collateralgreens.bsky.social•6 days ago

I have seen people argue "oh I wouldn't care if X creator didn't position himself as an AUTHORITY on queerness" and when you try to see if the creator did that it's just them saying normal stuff like "I'm glad queer folks like this! representation is important!"

collateralgreens.bsky.social•6 days ago

and the people treating them like an "authority on queerness" were just fans who jumped on the parasocial seesaw and now feel like they have to hate the creator as much as they once loved them.

collateralgreens.bsky.social•6 days ago

"this celebrity didn't do what I expected, which is a personal betrayal, how could they do this to me"
vs.
"no, you just made up a guy. the real guy is different from the one you made up."

asneakyfox.bsky.social•6 days ago

remembering now the time i saw someone get really mad about the creators of avatar congratulating themselves about korrasami and claiming it was groundbreaking queer representation when in fact the only statement they made on it was that it wasn't ideal representation but they did their best

fvnghoul.bsky.social•6 days ago

just as stupid a take as "straight actors shouldn't play gay/queer roles"

thepeoplezprincess.bsky.social•6 days ago

Some people actually do still believe that. I admit that was my stance in the 90s when I was too immature to understand the implications of publicly coming out beyond just being nosy and wanting more queer representation on my screen as a teenager.

thepeoplezprincess.bsky.social•6 days ago

There is more representation and that’s great, but leading men and women, actors who are going to sell a blockbuster film and make its investors money, still have to be outwardly heterosexual. And I’d say this is even more true for male actors. It’s certainly better but we aren’t there yet.

redshiftsinger.bsky.social•6 days ago

I remember when Elton John came out as gay and it was THE BIGGEST DEAL, like, everyone was shocked.

Anyone queer and over 30 grew up EXTREMELY aware that letting anyone find out they’re queer was dangerous. Even an A-list celeb risked career ruin by coming out.

thepeoplezprincess.bsky.social•6 days ago

When Ricky Martin came out it was like the world ended for some people 😂

redshiftsinger.bsky.social•6 days ago

Or Adam Lambert. I watched that season of American Idol bc I was babysitting some kids who were into it. He really presented himself SO STRAIGHT until suddenly!!!

thepeoplezprincess.bsky.social•6 days ago

I honestly can’t imagine lol

redshiftsinger.bsky.social•6 days ago

And if you didn’t have the protection of wealth and fame, or at least connections, you risked being brutally murdered.

I still get secondhand terrified for younger queers who feel so safe being out and proud. And I know logically the world is different now. But that fear’s hard to shake.

thepeoplezprincess.bsky.social•6 days ago

And they don’t get how that’s a privileged stance. This is why queer history is important. It also wasn’t that long ago when out gay celebs ostracized out bi celebs like Ann Heche and Ani DiFranco and framed them as “bad lesbians” for also dating men and the same thing still happens now.

redshiftsinger.bsky.social•6 days ago

And it’s not like there’s no risk now. It’s different, better, but not all sunshine and rainbows. Trans people in particular are still under serious attack. There’s still a lot of reasons why someone who can endure the closet a while longer might choose it.

asneakyfox.bsky.social•6 days ago

now someone's going to see this and say "you know david jenkins isn't--" which (1) ok so you admit this is just about insulting djenks & not an actual principle you're serious about and (2) talking about it like a serious principle, i'm sorry, still hits closeted & questioning artists

asneakyfox.bsky.social•6 days ago

third no i actually don't know that, about david jenkins or about anyone, because there was a time i didn't know it about myself, the whole way this works is there isn't really any way to know, ever, if you are serious about this you have to internalize that

slowpiracy.bsky.social•6 days ago

!!!!

pearwaldorf.bsky.social•6 days ago

Considering the show is lit-rally about two guys Figuring It Out in middle age, this is a hell of a fucking take.

I read a headline about somebody who came out as trans at 72. Are you going to tell that person they don't have a right to tell their story until they announce it publicly?

littlefingies.bsky.social•6 days ago

Especially with the number of people who this show has helped come out later in life (including me!)

pearwaldorf.bsky.social•6 days ago

As a fellow late bloomer, I am so glad the show helped you with that <3

littlefingies.bsky.social•6 days ago

I didn't even know gender was something I was really allowed to question. I mean, I knew other people could, but I didn't really know that *I* could

asneakyfox.bsky.social•6 days ago

maddy thorson sincerely believed she was a cis man when she made celeste. come on.

redshiftsinger.bsky.social•6 days ago

RIGHT like all we actually know for sure is that he’s had serious relationships with women and presents himself publicly as cishet. Which is grounds to believe him about that in general but NOT grounds to deny him the right to explore other possibilities if he wants to!

redshiftsinger.bsky.social•6 days ago

And if we’re going to criticize fiction for its portrayals of queer characters, we should criticize it on its actual merits, not the (assumed or declared) identity of the guy primarily in charge of making it. Straight people CAN tell queer stories respectfully, to claim otherwise is silly.

redshiftsinger.bsky.social•6 days ago

Everyone can and should be expected to treat other demographics from their own with respect and to be able to tell stories that aren’t just their own personal experiences with the superficial details changed.

widogastweb.bsky.social•6 days ago

Also, David didn’t write the whole show by himself. The writer’s room was filled with queer and trans folks, as well as the crew and the cast. Those folks should be able to tell their stories too, and David may or may not be queer, but he gave a lot of queer folks a foot in the door.

edsstaugsnake.bsky.social•6 days ago

Everyone should be able to tell queer stories because queer stories are human stories. In a collaborative medium like television it’s appropriate to work with queer creators in the writers room and cast as DJ (whom we’re presuming is straight) did.

edsstaugsnake.bsky.social•6 days ago

If (presumed or declared) straight people aren’t allowed to be involved in queer storytelling in collaborative mediums, a lot fewer queer stories will be told.

reluctantrose.bsky.social•6 days ago

People have been begging cis folks to lift up queer voices, but if this is what happens when one DOES, it gets a lot harder to convince others to do it.

widogastweb.bsky.social•6 days ago

💯

littlefingies.bsky.social•6 days ago

And not even just a foot!

redshiftsinger.bsky.social•6 days ago

Thinking again about how Vico said they cried when they read the scripts bc Jim’s gender was handled so respectfully

widogastweb.bsky.social•6 days ago

The whole body, one might say!

asneakyfox.bsky.social•6 days ago

that eighth grade bully who said stuff like "why would you write stories about gay people if you're not gay?" they were doing praxis

samikelsh.bsky.social•6 days ago

yes! i’m reminded of creators who’ve felt forced to out themselves before they were ready because they were presumed cishet and people were mad about it. coming out is very personal, and should come from a place of safety and readiness, never under threat, never because you wrote a queer story.

samikelsh.bsky.social•6 days ago

and so what if they are cishet! does the story resonate with you, a queer audience? good! may the accolades of that one story lead to more queer stories, more queer voices. more places to see ourselves and feel understood. and if a cishet writer understands? cool

redheadedsnippet.bsky.social•6 days ago

Jumping to conclusions about who is and isn’t queer is, in itself, queerphobic, and can lead to devastating consequences. https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/22543858/isabel-fall-attack-helicopter

summerlinenss.bsky.social•6 days ago

it’s so so weird to me because it’s always either “[straight creator] is a homophobe/transphobe because they’ve never made any stories about queer people” or “[straight creator] is trying to profit off of the community by making a story about queer people” like which one fucking is it then???

summerlinenss.bsky.social•6 days ago

and i can understand the idea of not wanting them to make things that are harmful or exploitative, but shouldn’t we really be encouraging straight creators to make more art about and for queer people? to normalize that it isn’t some mystical taboo?

ramsaybaggins.bsky.social•6 days ago

PREACH

Also, when I was younger, seeing queer stories normalised to the point that cishet people would write em too was seen as the goal!

Comments

Posting Rules

Reply