The rule is two thirds of BOTH the house and the senate must approve of the changes...donnie barely has the majority let alone two thirds. The democrats would never give him this much power.
Of course, by legal means it's practically impossible. But the Dictator elect doesn't follow rules, disregards laws, and thinks he's impervious to everything because he's gotten away with so much s***.
He'll make life hell for those citizens regardless of legalities.
“Two-thirds of both houses of Congress can vote to propose an amendment. Alternatively, two-thirds of state legislatures can ask Congress to call a national convention to propose amendments.
Ratifying an amendment
Three-fourths of state legislatures in three-fourths of states must approve “
Because it involves others giving up their power. House, Senate, and states. Even the courts can’t nullify a Constitutional amendment - it would have to be repealed with another amendment like the 18th was repealed by the 21st.
You could make the argument that he could direct the Dept. of State to deny issuing SSNs selectively, but there’s enough bureaucracy in place to foul up any such EO.
It won't happen because it takes a full two thirds majority in both the house and senate to revoke or add a constitutional amendment along with 75% of the states. Never. Gonna. Happen!
It CURRENTLY takes that. They have no intention of allowing the house or senate to block it. That's why they are seeing if Congress will comply in advance
A Constitutional Amendment to our Constitution needs to be ratified by ALL of the states. Just look at the ERA Amendment. I believe there were a couple of states that refused to ratify it therefor it never became a part of the Constitution. Please read How to Amend the Constitution.
Only 3/4 of the states need to ratify an amendment for it to pass. Currently, that's 38 states.
Also, states can independently call for a Constitutional convention, and 2/3 of states are needed to force one. That would need 34 states.
38/50 states have to ratify any amendment to the Constitution, assuming the amendment even gets past the Senate (which would also require a 2/3 majority)
2/3's of both houses then 3/4's of all states. With states suing to prevent ratification, the fastest amendment to be ratified was the 26th, filed in 1942, passed in 1971.
It will never pass, but MAGA eats that up.
People (those who are not supporters of Trump) are in denial that they too have been culturally conditioned to believe everything Trump says is possible.
The MAGA plan is to get the 14th amendment reinterpreted by the current SC.The original purpose of birthright citizenship in the 14th was to give citizenship to the recently freed slaves.An 1898 case affirmed that the 14th covers anyone born in the states.But I am worried this SC sees it differently
Yeah it would be very hard. IF this is the high water mark of his influence then he does not have three fourths of the states. But is a damn lot closer than you might think. Lot of red states.
You sure about that? Are you sure about that? Because it’s a big big IF there. We thought that about presidential immunity and there was stealing classified documents and - oh there’s going to be land in Texas for CAMPS so maybe you should wait a minute before you get so sure…
Not only is it difficult, but also the president has no role in it, btw. There is no presidential veto on constitutional amendments... The president does not work with Congress to pass constitutional amendments... President has no role in the process....
Dictators don't abide by the constitution. Or do you think that he's going to follow the law not that scotus has said he's untouchable? They are going to attempt to rip the whole thing asunder, and the question is, who will stop him?
SCOTUS doesn't make the changes to the constitution without there being a vote passed by two thirds of BOTH the house and the senate.
Not going to happen.
Then what does it mean? It means he is immune from criminal prosecution so if he chooses to use it as a blank check what will stop him? His morals? His integrity? He respect for anything or anyone else that doesn’t exist? He is immune from criminal prosecution.
The House is going to stop him? The Senate is going to stop him? What other channels are going to stop him. Committees? SCOTUS? Can you be specific because I have been watching him do whatever he chooses to do for decades.
Saying that the rule of law does not apply to Trump is defeatist and basically obeying in advance. Many of his initiatives can and will be stopped or stymied by the rule of law, and this does not require criminally prosecuting him.
I get that. What I’m trying to convey is that the more we lament the anticipated collapse of the rule of law the more we feed an outcome that serves them, not us. They want us to believe he is untouchable, unstoppable, because then there’s no point in fighting. He’s not.
Immunity from prosecution is not enough to ram through an amendment to the constitution.
He probably couldn't be prosecuted for deporting US citizens, but he could still be stopped because it's illegal.
He & his henchmen make the loudest and most draconian threats about things they know they cannot accomplish. He’s just trying to scare people. And I wish more people would punch back in his face and say “You’re wrong. Nope. You’ll never accomplish it. You’re full of shit. Shut the fuck up, old man.”
That's not true. Even Republicans aren't willing to give Trump his way all the time. Trump has significant power, but there isn't much he can do on his own.
Immune from prosecution doesn’t mean immune from process. Our salvation is going to come from MAGA incompetence. He doesn’t even know the term “repeal,” much less have a clue on how to do it. This time, neither does anyone around him.
The rule of law does apply to Trump- it’s why he ran for office in the 1st place. It’s why he is nominating POS to his cabinet. It’s why the GOP made a deal w/Schumer for appellate judge appointments. The list and tea leaves go on…
He’s immune from prosecution, the people he uses to break the law are not and would be foolish to follow his obviously illegal orders.
That said,violating the 14th amendment would be a civil matter unaffected by the immunity ruling.
Courts would have to overturn precedent,which does seem possible.
You're confusing the issues. Trump can break the law without fear of prosecution but that doesn't mean the law doesn't apply to him. Also the law does apply to everyone else.
There's no way he's getting a ConAmd past 2/3 of both chambers and 3/4 of the states. Just not happening.
He’s immune from criminal prosecution. That doesn’t mean he can just override a constitutional amendment. Courts can override a constitutional amendment either. It would need to be repealed or new legislation enacted, which would require massive congressional support, which would never happen.
I appreciate your response. But all I can say is that there are a lot of things that I never thought would happen in this country that are happening right now as regards democracy and the rule of law.
I’m with you, man. This whole timeline sucks, but I think some of the ‘end of democracy’ stuff is a little much. The orange buffoon will fail to do much of what he’s promised his cult, but we must remain vigilant.
Slater17 is correct that they can’t (or it would be exceedingly difficult to) change the letter of the law.
But davidck is correct insofar as there will be no protection offered to those who the GOP wish to abuse. The letter of the law will be ignored, and rights will not be defended.
Not necessarily. The State Department is an executive branch office, and they’re responsible for issuing SSNs. They could be directed to narrow the scope of issuance. It would be illegal, and likely ground to a halt by bureaucracy, but if enough sympathizers exist there…
I agree. He will try to stay on. Whether he succeeds or not is another matter.
“Christians, get out & vote just this time. You won’t have to do it anymore. Four more years, you know what? It’ll be fixed, it’ll be fine, you won’t have to vote anymore”
If he’s stupid enough to get rid of Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare, and the rights and education safeguards of special needs children/adults he won’t last four years in office. He might just unite the nation with mass protest and rage.
When I say he won’t go gently, I mean not just him but the whole movement that has sprung around him. Yes he won’t live forever but this movement will.
My hope is that, like last time, he'll have replaced so many of his appointments that few remain in power by term end; that he'll have damaged the daily lives of his supporters so badly that they turn against him. That we all get our shit together & vote them ALL OUT next time. Midterms will tell.
He didn't choose his appointments last term. They were recommended because the appointments were supposed to be "babysitters". He didn't like them. Now he is selecting folks who think like him and say yes.
Look, he may try to suspend the Constitution. But an actual amendment? No way that happens. They’d need 38 state legislatures to ratify, and GOP doesn’t control that many.
The Constitution says that 3/4 of the States have to ratify any amendment - 38 states as of now. Ratifications happen at the individual state legislature level. Currently, only 28 states have a Republication led legislature. So, even if all 28 vote to ratify, it is still well short of the 38 needed
We all seem to assume that most of the mechanisms of government will be maintained after tRump assumes office. Given the parade of plutocratic horribles he's attempting to appoint to high offices and his own mendacity and idiocy, we can't be so sure.
🙄 He hasn’t been president the last four years. He’s now a convicted criminal and paid millions in judgements. Yeah, he’s gotten away with an astonishing amount of terrible things, but hardly gets everything he wants.
You’re free to think that, but the truth is things have not been going his way legally. As for the re-election, that was up to the brain dead American population and shocked me as much as the next person.
Because he stacked the Supreme Court. He was able to freely commit crimes and still can. He was also free to lead an insurrection without consequences. I will never understand how anyone could have voted for him. Fox just named him patriot of the year 😩
He can’t end a constitutional amendment single handedly. It’s intentionally quite difficult. There is no way he will have congressional and state support to change this.
Then we got the Roberts decision in the USA vs Trump.
But the left hanging their hat on norms for the last 50 years since Ford pardoned Nixon and started the GOP’s descent into pure power politics hasn’t worked out very well, has it?
The supreme court can't unilaterally change the letter of the constitution, either. They can interpret it, but birthright citizenship as it stands is pretty literally laid out in the document and would be difficult to interpret otherwise. This isn't a precedent issue like Roe v Wade etc.
I don’t disagree about the literal text of the constitution.
I don’t think that will matter for the next four years, and between Project 2025, January 6th, and what all the far right wing has been saying for the past 8 years, I’m concerned the constitution doesn’t matter.
If the constitution doesn't matter we have much bigger problems, like collapse of the Union big, in which case the federal government no longer even exists in any meaningful way. It's not realistic to assume Trump can hold the line across the continent without the authority given by federalism.
It literally can't all happen. Either America exists and Trump is in charge of it, or it doesn't and he has a much bigger fight trying to maintain authority of a physical area and population that zero dictators in history have *ever* attempted to control.
Unless we are scrapping the constitution entirely, the rules it imposes are still in play. And if we are scrapping the constitution entirely, we have a completely different ballgame in which state and regional power will play out as it will and will be incredible hard to control from DC.
Absolutely nothing of this caliber of constitutional law has been scrapped. Lots of precedent, sure. Some significant changes in interpretation. But this is the LETTER of the document. That's a different thing.
There’s a difference between changing and ignoring precedent and amending the constitution, and it’s disturbing how many of you don’t seem to understand that. Amending the constitution is a clear process that’s intentionally difficult to achieve. He’s not getting 3/4s of the states to ratify.
Do you know what’s required to ratify an amendment? After Congress passes it with 2/3 (which it wouldn’t get) it would go to the states, where 3/4 (38 states) would have to ratify it. There are no less than 17 states that absolutely would not.
A 2/3rds vote in both the House of Reps and the Senate is required to propose an amendment by Congress. Alternatively, 2/3rds of state legislatures can request a convention to propose amendments.
The amendment must be ratified by 3/4ths of state legislatures or 3/4ths of state conventions.
Changing or repealing a Constitutional amendment that’s been in place since Reconstruction still requires a 2/3rds majority in Congress and ratified by 2/3rds of the states. Both will not happen.
AND the states. It's not just congress required to change the constitution, it's the voting bodies of every state requiring a supermajority. It's HARD, and it's hard on purpose.
If America and its constitution and institutions exist at all, it will be almost impossible to do this. It's almost impossible to do it even with a much more popular goal.
I feel pretty confident in saying he will never be able to get a Constitucional amendment ending birthright citizenship. Check out the history of the ERA, which was introduced in the 1970s.
Well, first it needs 66 votes on the senate to be able to change the constitution. Right now if all republicans vote yes it have 52 votes. Need to convice democrats to vote yes and that aint going to happen.
He needs two-thirds of each house of Congress: 290 in the House, 67 in the Senate. If he gets that, he needs three-quarters of the State legislatures: 38 out of 50.
You guys think trump isn’t just going to go in and rip up the constitution and start fresh with his own rules??? He’s told you that’s what he intends to do. The constitution is like a 300 year old carpet that doesn’t match the new drapes. He won’t change the drapes.
Comments
He'll make life hell for those citizens regardless of legalities.
Ratifying an amendment
Three-fourths of state legislatures in three-fourths of states must approve “
Also, states can independently call for a Constitutional convention, and 2/3 of states are needed to force one. That would need 34 states.
It will never pass, but MAGA eats that up.
Even if an amendment is presented and passed by Congress to repeal the 14th amendment, President no name will never see it’s ratification
The bipartisan border bill KH discussed failed because of him, and he wasn't even in office.
However, I don't think it will happen because it's not a top priority. Not compared to the chaos of rounding up immigrants. He wants that show.
Not going to happen.
He probably couldn't be prosecuted for deporting US citizens, but he could still be stopped because it's illegal.
#NeverTrump
I had to check the second condition, but he’s pretty far from meeting either of those thresholds.
That said,violating the 14th amendment would be a civil matter unaffected by the immunity ruling.
Courts would have to overturn precedent,which does seem possible.
There's no way he's getting a ConAmd past 2/3 of both chambers and 3/4 of the states. Just not happening.
But davidck is correct insofar as there will be no protection offered to those who the GOP wish to abuse. The letter of the law will be ignored, and rights will not be defended.
“Christians, get out & vote just this time. You won’t have to do it anymore. Four more years, you know what? It’ll be fixed, it’ll be fine, you won’t have to vote anymore”
https://www.politifact.com/article/2024/jul/29/in-context-donald-trump-tells-christians-they-wont/
vantz may end up taking over if felon turnip passes on but he doesn’t have the devotion of the felon’s cult so I don’t see him lasting.
And melon is going to piss turnip off soon because he’ll overstep.
Monday, January 20, 2025
#STOP Trump signing day 1 EOs:
•Firing 1000s of fed workers
•Cutting MEDICARE ACA
•Deporting US citizens
#STAYHOME don’t buy or sell anything that day
*Safer,many can do,effective&Trump can’t stop it
Let’s go‼️
Then we got the Roberts decision in the USA vs Trump.
But the left hanging their hat on norms for the last 50 years since Ford pardoned Nixon and started the GOP’s descent into pure power politics hasn’t worked out very well, has it?
I don’t think that will matter for the next four years, and between Project 2025, January 6th, and what all the far right wing has been saying for the past 8 years, I’m concerned the constitution doesn’t matter.
When Trump takes the oath in violation of Section 3 of the 14th Amendment, it's over.
I'm curious if "they" would try to reverse adult citizens by birthright, or implement it going forward.
The amendment must be ratified by 3/4ths of state legislatures or 3/4ths of state conventions.
He may think there’s another easier path to his goal here. There isn’t. Unless he burns the Constitution.
There's no way in hell the orange clown is getting two thirds vote in both the house and senate.
No chance.