The new GOV.UK login system is the first step in a radical transformation of the British state (FREE TO READ!) takes.jamesomalley.co.uk/p/login-to-a... - ThreadSky

jamesomalley.co.uk • 4 days ago

The new GOV.UK login system is the first step in a radical transformation of the British state (FREE TO READ!)

https://takes.jamesomalley.co.uk/p/login-to-a-revolution

Comments

rupertstubbs.bsky.social•4 days ago

Excellent and encouraging work. Also look at OpenSAFELY: @bengoldacre.bsky.social and his team making powerful research possible on the whole GP health record database, without compromising confidentiality - using a clever technique with much potential in other areas of govt.

https://www.opensafely.org/

jamesomalley.co.uk•4 days ago

Cheers! Already written about it!

https://takes.jamesomalley.co.uk/p/how-to-use-nhs-data-for-scientific

rupertstubbs.bsky.social•4 days ago

Ah, that’s before I discovered you. Mea culpa.

jamesomalley.co.uk•4 days ago

Horrified you didn’t immediately go back and read everything I’ve ever written!

rupertstubbs.bsky.social•4 days ago

I will bear that shame forever

da.videvans.uk•4 days ago

If you're going to write about the privacy elements in future, my challenge to you is to imagine a world where the individual data is auditably/provably locked away from civil servants who can still do all they need to - i.e. applying the OpenSafely principles into administration.

da.videvans.uk•4 days ago

The concept that these public benefits are zero-sum with privacy is one of the most toxic fallacies in digital public services; it makes intuitive sense to the public while giving aircover for lazy technical thinking and hidden agendas.

rupertstubbs.bsky.social•4 days ago

Could you explain that to me as if I were a 65-year old?

da.videvans.uk•4 days ago

I'll give it a go...

johnbroggio.bsky.social•4 days ago

It isn't the while GP health record database.

rupertstubbs.bsky.social•4 days ago

I may have phrased that badly - as I understand it, it’s England rather than the UK, and it’s only the records that are digitally stored and accessible. But it’s still fairly comprehensive, and the technique is applicable to all sorts of distributed data systems, as the data stays where it is.

lorrainerogerson.bsky.social•4 days ago

This is exciting & seems to be being done really well. I hope people appreciate all these efforts to make government work for them, and join the dots…such a contrast to the sheer destruction offered by the alternatives.

themightytrexuk.bsky.social•4 days ago

the people at https://gov.uk seem to be really good at what they do, we take a bit of inspiration from them in terms of how they think.

lines.snail.skin•4 days ago

This is great. :)

I will say that a missed opportunity with the new "digital IDs" seems to be that we're not going to get physical ID cards, which would be a really great way to do two-factor auth for the one login. I dunno if it has this at the moment?

simon-lucy.bsky.social•4 days ago

Think about how physical ID can be subverted. Make it a second factor to guarantee an identity and the impact is so much worse.

silkesmith.bsky.social•4 days ago

Are you telling us that digital ID can't be subverted?

simon-lucy.bsky.social•4 days ago

No, not at all.
Only that external separate ID is an unnecessary and easily stolen ID.

lines.snail.skin•4 days ago

I'm fairly sure it's a thing many countries do. Estonia, I think? Ideally you could also put biometrics on it but that isn't strictly necessary. Think about how easy it is to steal a phone, and they commonly act as a second factor.

lines.snail.skin•4 days ago

What you'd do is put a pin on it and have that secure the card, have it be NFC-enabled or something like that.

simon-lucy.bsky.social•4 days ago

Indeed. That is usually easier to cancel but not always.

Identity is fraught with problems. The risks increase with what seems like a simple solution to the individual.

See.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-41858583

pguin.bsky.social•4 days ago

A great read, fascinating.

eastmad.bsky.social•4 days ago

A lot of people still not on Blue Sky (e.g. Paul Downey) would be interested in this

eastmad.bsky.social•4 days ago

This article looks very comprehensive, well done James. (If it wasn't you would be skinned alive, so there is that)

The full political problems still exist, but it is nice to see this much laid out.

dburx.bsky.social•4 days ago

Clear explanation of the Platform model. But there are other models. E.g. one model of a bank is a single platform via a current account; but there are specialised ones whose products are not connected. Gov't arguably is too large & risky to connect as one, to say nothing of potential for abuse? e.g

dburx.bsky.social•4 days ago

I see limited advantage, and much risk & potential for abuse, in connecting the Health & Tax systems together. These are already 2 giant & complex pieces. Even the USSR broke its organisation into several firms - at a theoretical level, too big is too big?

dburx.bsky.social•4 days ago

Ultimately "one log-in" or gov't number, leads to a Social Credit system, albeit a British one.

lizcrosbie.bsky.social•3 days ago

📌

realthomasbell.bsky.social•4 days ago

Preemptively sabotaging “British DOGE” with this moniker I feel

realthomasbell.bsky.social•4 days ago

I can only share this with people I know will read past a headline, and, well

xlaszlo.bsky.social•4 days ago

Yeah, it's pretty cheap considering the great work the GDS is doing.

richardpope.org•4 days ago

Thanks for the shout out James!

jamesomalley.co.uk•4 days ago

Ha, hope I can shift a few books for you!

drlucybuykx.bsky.social•4 days ago

Have to say that headline grabbed me and I had to breathe slowly while I read the first section 😆. I love the amazing improvements to digital services I've seen over recent years but I have mixed feelings because I'm as a user researcher in gov so I regularly talk with people who are not digital...

drlucybuykx.bsky.social•4 days ago

... natives. Making services work well is really hard work and it's even harder when we have to factor in a non digital route for those who cannot or will not be able to be digital first

richardblyth.bsky.social•4 days ago

It was suggested to me that the reason hospitals won't use NHS direct for appointments is that they would charged to do so. So they each set up separate (and rubbish) arrangements with private IT companies.

richardblyth.bsky.social•4 days ago

One log in would usefully cover hospitals but it can't if the government insists they are not part of the government.

samdownie.bsky.social•4 days ago

Go ahead and sign in to the Gov ONE service https://admin.sign-in.service.gov.uk/ go on James do it now! Also it’s been exploited.

samdownie.bsky.social•4 days ago

What do you mean by “new service” ? The login has been around for ages. Go read and search for it on the https://blog.gov.uk , then go read about cybersecurity and work out if the login breaches laws and disclosures data

alanchaplin.bsky.social•4 days ago

Could you follow me so I can dm you? I have a question re one login I’m struggling to get answered and you may know/be able to get an answer.

detig.bsky.social•4 days ago

Your description of the first iPhone apps and email is similar to how I describe the lack of ambition on electronic public procurement: mere digitisation of an existing analogue process without taking into account the paradigm change.

carlgardner.bsky.social•4 days ago

Could you please point me to something to read by you or others about possibilities for electronic public procurement?

samdownie.bsky.social•4 days ago

See https://admin.sign-in.service.gov.uk/ go and create an account and also read the faq in it . Plus this service hasn’t been tested well and has been exposed and exploited for data harvesting

detig.bsky.social•4 days ago

UK: I think my response to the green paper consultation in 2021 was quite vocal about it.

detig.bsky.social•4 days ago

(I think I also put a response in where the original draft of the Procurement Act came around but cannot find it right now).

detig.bsky.social•4 days ago

On the EU side of things:

https://research.cbs.dk/en/publications/looking-into-the-public-procurement-data-space-and-eforms

and

https://research.cbs.dk/en/publications/the-evolution-of-electronic-public-procurement-under-directive-20

detig.bsky.social•4 days ago

One of my papers got nuked on peer review so I adapted the second part of it into this blogpost as well:

joekelly216.bsky.social•4 days ago

Great article. You touch on the idea that this can reduce the burden on citizens and that unnecessary forms steal time from users. This would be a massive step in tackling some of the issues in Sunsteins book Sludge (albeit he comes at the issue from a pre-insanity US perspective)

els76uk.bsky.social•4 days ago

Good article. About the "tell us once" service: it only works if you can find documentation related to everyone you want to tell. Eg, if you don't know your recently deceased relative's council tax reference, you still get stuck in a bureaucratic hell. I know this bc I had to use it recently

iajulufo.bsky.social•4 days ago

I wouldn't call it DOGE. That's if you want people to use it.

connorcdc.bsky.social•4 days ago

Great article James, I wish it was better communicated on the whole what it is, instead of being portrayed as a Tony Blair inspired digital dystopia.

andyprentice.bsky.social•4 days ago

I’m very noticed that probate, driving licences and passports have been much easier and quicker to process. That’s great and very helpful. Fully agree with filling in something once and that’s it. Perfect. My concern surrounds fraud and evasion in e.g. HMRC and self assessment where much more ….

andyprentice.bsky.social•4 days ago

…. needs to be done. There has been quite a brain drain in tax where skilled and highly trained staff have retired and not been replaced.

kindofnorthern.bsky.social•4 days ago

Have you checked out the Dutch system? Basically how DigiID works - and because you have to register with your local council when you arrive in the country and whenever you move, all of the various agencies are automatically updated with your new details.

https://www.digid.nl/en/

visitmy.website•4 days ago

The lead developer on our team in 2019 was Dutch, he gave us a tour of DigiID and how everything linked together when we were doing this: https://visitmy.website/2024/10/10/sketches-of-future-digital-services-in-government/

kindofnorthern.bsky.social•4 days ago

Nice! It really makes life so much easier.

andyeprr.bsky.social•4 days ago

V interesting. I didn't know that about the Estonian system; it's a good idea.

wirralexpat.bsky.social•4 days ago

Interesting read

Presumably it has taken so long because it needed a vision & was competing against new bolt on pet projects from ministers

Should see some fraud savings by identifying duplicate records on multiple systems?

debbieb.bsky.social•4 days ago

Very informative article James, I have noticed improvements myself. I renewed my passport using a photo with a code from the photographer Also they have put the HC1 claim form online, used to be a long form you had to hand write, mostly filling in "n/a" and then post, this was much easier

matthewskelton.com•4 days ago

Super write up. Have you compared the GOV.UK activities with similar in Singapore?

The GovTech group in GOV.SG is really leading the way globally.

invalid-handle.com•4 days ago

I thought of Singapore too. I’m sure there’s other governments we could learn from too. But how things worked there as an end user was such a contrast to the UK

matthewskelton.com•4 days ago

Ooh, can you elaborate? Better, worse, different? How?

tommorris.org•16 hours ago

Finally happening then. Third time lucky etc.

jeanjeans.bsky.social•4 days ago

Transparency as in Estonia would be helpful. Good to see Papers Please issue mentioned.
How much is Palantir involved with this?

tomski.com•4 days ago

Explaining all that so clearly is properly impressive. (Sadly Tell Us Once's creation and survival is a miracle, not a harbinger. I wrote about it here: https://public.digital/pd-insights/blog/2022/12/the-value-of-horizontal-services-tell-us-once )

jamesomalley.co.uk•4 days ago

Thanks man! And will have a read!

katebevan.com•4 days ago

that's a great rant, Tom. Wish to God Tel Us Once had realised the vision of extending across banks etc - it would make dealing with a death that bit less horrendous.

repoocuts.bsky.social•2 days ago

Good piece, a convoluted joke about the disappointment of British DOGE trying to cancel the TransPennine Express only to learn there's no service to cut would have been nice

invalid-handle.com•4 days ago

Thanks for this James, really good read. Frictionless government!

If you didn’t catch it this was a good listen with some positive takeaways on how to do this stuff well (and I summarise the main points later in the thread).

P.s here’s my posting license 🪪

invalid-handle.com•4 days ago

The vaccine rollout shows some positives but also limitations. The system had v clunky areas for things like those who were housebound.

Like other newer gov services, things work well for the ~80% average cases but terribly for others. How we fix that will be important I think. I’m hopeful tho

dlynch.bsky.social•4 days ago

Digital National ID looking inevitable, isn't it?

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