Aaaannnndd the latest Channel Tunnel 💩 No there aren’t going to be London - Milano direct trains It’s so far and complex I’m not even including it in my #CrossChannelRail project! www.thetimes.com/uk/transport... - ThreadSky

jonworth.eu • 11 days ago

Aaaannnndd the latest Channel Tunnel 💩

No there aren’t going to be London - Milano direct trains

It’s so far and complex I’m not even including it in my #CrossChannelRail project!

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/transport/article/st-pancras-expansion-route-train-travel-fbfkmw9xv

Comments

msbluewednesday.bsky.social•11 days ago

Frankly I’d prefer Ashfleet back.

jonworth.eu•11 days ago

That’s viable. But it’s boring. So doesn’t get the coverage.

euromec23.bsky.social•11 days ago

More likely is an offer to Frecciarosso or Iryo trains connecting to the Qbuzz Amsterdam-Paris and FS Paris-Turin train services.

jonworth.eu•11 days ago

Milano - Amsterdam could work. And note Trenitalia has *never* promised anything to London.

dirkscheffers.bsky.social•11 days ago

Did Amsterdam - Turin last year. Was pretty ok even though we were bussed through the Fréjus tunnel because of a landslide which I think is now fixed. Long transfer in Paris though (GdN - GdL).

jonworth.eu•11 days ago

Line re-opens end of March. SNCF and Trenitalia running normally from April.

jonworth.eu•11 days ago

It’d be:
- 8 h 30 mins trip
- Milano C or Porta Garibaldi don‘t have secure platforms (at C there’d be space, but it’d cost)
- Torino P Susa is a small underground station, complex too
- Chambéry prob too small to serve, Lyon Part Dieu too congested
- Secure platform at Marne La V wrongly configured

sylvanheathcote.bsky.social•11 days ago

When you say ‘secure’ do you mean for border security? I.e. something that would cease to be an issue if the UK government ditched its idiotic “we’re not EU” stance and joined shengan?

jonworth.eu•11 days ago

All this happened pre Brexit. And I mean bag scans and passport controls.

sylvanheathcote.bsky.social•11 days ago

Oh yeah, but it was always dumb that the UK wasn’t in shengan, sounds like you’re saying that without passport control they wouldn’t be necessary?

jonworth.eu•11 days ago

One phone call to one person with a little expertise would have been all it’d have taken. One.

Anyone who’s got any grasp of the basics can see London - Milano is not viable.

But yeah, go and write utter garbage instead. 🤬

gbenedetto.bsky.social•11 days ago

You mention security checks (and I don't mean border control). I've always wondered if they are really necessary as they don't take place for trains that use the major Alpine tunnels.

jonworth.eu•11 days ago

Putting it another way: if the UK took Channel Tunnel through trains seriously there’d be room to adjust passport and bag scan rules that’d make more routes easier to operate. Even within constraints imposed by Brexit and non-Schengen. But the appetite for this is close to zero, UK side.

jonworth.eu•11 days ago

Hmmm, grey area. The law states you have to have the facility to do them, but not that every bag has to be scanned. But since 2001 de facto every bag has been scanned.

But passport checks pre boarding are harder and costlier than this imho.

jeroenvm.bsky.social•10 days ago

... especially when you realize that while you are taking off your belt and putting all your stuff though the scanners at St Pancras, at Folkestone you can drive a whole car or bus onto a train using the exact same tunnel... with minimal checks.

jonworth.eu•10 days ago

Yes, 100%. No consistency.

jeroenvm.bsky.social•10 days ago

It's infuriating that this secutainment that causes so much planning trouble is presented as something that's in passengers interest. I'm starting to think that building a second Channel tunnel with new rules would be the easiest way for change!

patrick.seurre.com•11 days ago

Do you ever see there being a London to Nice service?

jonworth.eu•11 days ago

Nice, unlikely. Marseille, perhaps.

gabrielstravels.bsky.social•10 days ago

There used to be a direct Marseille service! Source: hours and hours of reading seat61

jonworth.eu•10 days ago

I know. Because I do know how to research. But you had to get off for 55 mins in Lille when heading to London.

torstenkammer.bsky.social•11 days ago

Milan really feels like they went, "name a city. Any city".

jonworth.eu•11 days ago

But why would Getlink and HS1 even say that? Why not Lyon or Köln? Or are we simply beyond caring now?

torstenkammer.bsky.social•11 days ago

My guesses would be:
Option 1: There have been plans for Lyon and Cologne for decades, Milan is new and exciting.
Option 2: They want to subtly tease that Trenitalia could maybe run there if they wanted (conveniently ignoring that they don't even do Milan-Paris at the moment).

jonworth.eu•11 days ago

Milano-Paris Trenitalia restarts 1 April

torstenkammer.bsky.social•11 days ago

Ah, I didn't know that, thank you!

evamontemaggi.bsky.social•11 days ago

Let me dream! ☺️

mmmmtrams.bsky.social•11 days ago

Anyway have a good day everyone. Friendly debate is good and it’s not going to happen any time soon despite the opinion of the London Times. I think adverts on the front page are more likely to come back first 🤣😎

mmmmtrams.bsky.social•11 days ago

It won’t happen. And there is no room at St Pancras either unless you get rid of the very very busy South Eastern High Speed. Which would really piss off people in East Kent and Ebbsfleet already angry that Eurostars don’t stop here and going to Paris by train involves doubling back via London 😡

jonworth.eu•11 days ago

No, that St P is full thing is a misnomer. At least at off peak you can get more trains in.

mmmmtrams.bsky.social•11 days ago

Also Eurostar peaks and domestic peaks are not the same thing. And as you know the platforms can’t be shared because of the border and security checks 😊

mmmmtrams.bsky.social•11 days ago

that’s not quite what I meant. It’s all very well squeezing more trains in but that assumes all the trains will run on time and there will never be any late running or disruption.
Typical “it works on paper” thinking. It still needs extra pathways which would have a major impact on domestic HS1 😊

dfarb.bsky.social•11 days ago

In the meantime with fewer seats available, Eurostar are raising prices.

jonworth.eu•11 days ago

Has been the case since the pandemic. And I can’t see them changing tactic soon.

dfarb.bsky.social•11 days ago

Tell me about it! Anyway, all rail services should be run for public benefit, not private profit.

mmmmtrams.bsky.social•11 days ago

IMO what needs to happen is for Eurostar to stop behaving like an airline and start being a railway company. Yes it competes with BA but there’s a huge untapped market in Kent everyone is ignoring, since it’s difficult to go to France without a car now as most ferries don’t take foot passengers

jonworth.eu•11 days ago

But why would they? It’s 55% SNCF owned. They see it as a cash cow. UK government doesn’t care. HS1 was built with private finance (thanks, Thatcher!) so access charges are high. Tunnel too. So Eurostar profit maximises, so here we are.

mmmmtrams.bsky.social•11 days ago

Quite

jonworth.eu•11 days ago

No. Still no. Eurostar trains hang around far longer than necessary in the platforms. And there are still fewer Eurostar services now than in 2019. So it’s not hard to fit in more.

mmmmtrams.bsky.social•11 days ago

I get that. But It’s better to have long turnarounds for long distance trains than short ones in my experience. A TOC I used to work for tried cutting turnaround times in London some years ago. It was an absolute disaster in the event of any out of course running and late Eurostars impact SE too.

thermalimageguy.bsky.social•10 days ago

What about running trains from central Scotland to Paris & beyond? Would be a great alternative to lots of European short haul flying from Glasgow & Edinburgh. I believe that was in the original Channel Tunnel plans….

jonworth.eu•10 days ago

A pain due to UK loading gauge.

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