As the guy in the last line - chubby and people feelings - that isn't really working for me either. And I find that any effort to avoid
looking like the first is usually greeted with the old "you say you have empathy and are a feminist but that's just the sort of thing a lying asshole would say"
A real decent men’s society could be the antidote for some folks, but I think the existing fraternal orders have too much problematic history to renovate into a new element.
It doesn’t seem like OK’s supposed positive ideology was ever more than a front for whipping up anger for profit. Very few groups recruit based on “we want to fleece you for all you’re worth and make you attack your neighbors to hide it”.
But that's exactly the problem with the argument i'm critiquing ("why don't you just go to good men's groups to get your social needs mutually met"). How exactly do we expect these people who have basically no external guidance to distinguish good groups from bad?
Liberals in general describe our own moral framework in terms of outward social responsibility and in favor of community engagement and mutual social support. Why do we drop that when it happens to regard specific demographic groups?
I’m thinking the other direction, we need to be cultivating and promoting positive groups, joining them and recruiting. I don’t expect the man-o-sphere boys to figure this out on their own, but like the Methodists of old we have to go find them where they’re at.
Not as such, mostly. Rec sports and hobby groups, mostly. You know, wholesome shit?
‘Manhood clubs’ where you go into the woods and beat drums around a fire are grifts and guys who say “fellowship” with a straight face are pushing MLMs
This to me is the core error. No, the venues you're imagining don't generally exist.
When you're driving down the road and you see a stranded drover who doesn't know how to change their flat tire, do you tell them that it's not your problem and they should just find another stranded person to help?
honestly to me "just get your social needs met by other broken people who also lack the social skills to do this" rhymes pretty closely with "just pull yourself up by the bootstraps."
Comments
looking like the first is usually greeted with the old "you say you have empathy and are a feminist but that's just the sort of thing a lying asshole would say"
Otherwise, no notes.
(Thigh is probably most common for beginners. You can see it to make sure you're doing it right, it's a large muscle group.)
you're giving them the same advice that they followed that led to this much worse situation in the first place.
‘Manhood clubs’ where you go into the woods and beat drums around a fire are grifts and guys who say “fellowship” with a straight face are pushing MLMs
My knee jerk reaction to that is "No thanks."
When you're driving down the road and you see a stranded drover who doesn't know how to change their flat tire, do you tell them that it's not your problem and they should just find another stranded person to help?