Will these people have security clearances? Badges that get them everywhere? How will they get the information they require? Are they going to have to run back to the White House every time the employees they’re trying to harm don’t cooperate?
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Conflicts of Interest: What do they do when they demand to lower the numbers of federal prisons (i.e.) and privatize them. Sure, once they are out of the 'voluntold' government jobs, they will invest in the privatized prison industry.
Having worked in corporate bureaucracy, confident they will find precisely what the bureaucracy wants them to find. These are entitled, lazy, incurious people with little patience. They will hire McKinsey to do a slide deck, declare victory, and accept their honorarium.
Many agency leaders will cooperate with them to get around clearances and badges out of fear or ambition. That’s how this stuff tends to get a foothold. And then they’ll chip away at the safeguards until they can be completely discarded.
If they have armed guards escorting people out of buildings and enough computer access to pull those people's electronic credentials, it doesn't really seem like whether those people's desire to cooperate is material. The goal of the entire project is to end the administrative state.
It's way easier to just "move fast, break things" when you have absolutely no desire for the entity you're breaking to continue to function when you're done breaking it.
Ehh, as a former federal worker, they’re going to run into statutes that can’t be ignored. “Ignore it!” “No, it’s the law.” “But… but… but…” The administrative state is made of sterner stuff than people are aware of. And the Republicans in the House don’t have the leverage for wholesale destruction
I worked at the IRS during the ongoing slog to full modernize the IT backbone. The programmers whined about how dumb the programming they were being asked to do. It was illogical. The standard reply was, It doesn’t matter about logic, it matters about law and the law trumps logic.
If these people are working for free and are only allowed 130 days, someone could just publish all of the initial comment periods for changes in the Federal Register with 120- or 180-day notices. The number of administrative changes that die after that… plenty of “yeah, never mind” time built-in…
Yeahhh…I’m gonna guess these tech types don’t understand how difficult it can be to navigate any type of highly regulated industry. Like I don’t doubt they’ll eventually bully their way in but it won’t be quick or easy.
Even after reading the article, I still don't see what possible legal grounds there would be for outsiders to be given such access. "Half-baked" seems like the right term.
Worth, if your only interest is to be as corrupt as possible. I come from a pretty corrupt country and this sounds like a Golden opportunity to send a goon to milk as much info/bribes/leverage as possible from gahmen.
Given that their plan is so obviously ridiculous, it seems fair to assume they’ll skip over the hard parts and just flail away at the stuff they’re already pointed at
Very much seems like a bunch of techbros going "Why do these older companies waste so much time on regulatory capture? Regulatory capture can't be that hard. I bet we could bang it out in a month."
can I ask you a lawyer question? I've worked in the federal government & my layperson's understanding was that free work is basically completely disallowed under the Antideficiency Act. not that these folks are inclined to obey rules, but could suits be brought, etc? is that terribly naive?
It is true that 13 USC §1342 prohibits federal officials from accepting voluntary services except in emergency, but the AG has interpreted it to mean that gratuitous services are OK unless Congress has provided for minimum compensation for the position.
Don’t know how this works for offices that Congress hasn’t even created, though. Seems like these volunteers would likely be performing “inherently governmental functions” under the FAIR Act and other law?
On the other hand, if they are SGEs they can be uncompensated for advisory services and certain conflict of interest requirements can be waived. But it would still be unlawful to take action for profit, as I understand it.
Waiver authority is 18 USC §208(b): in the case of a special Government employee serving on an advisory committee … the official responsible for the employee's appointment, after review of the financial disclosure report filed by the individual pursuant to chapter 131 of title 5
Also see GAO op B-324314 - the Anti-Deficiency Act prohibition on acceptance of voluntary services is intended to prevent the govt from incurring an unfunded obligation, so the volunteers must expressly waive any possible claim to compensation in advance. Not much of an obstacle.
You're thinking of the re-education camps run by Mao's Red Guards. I'm thinking of the enslaved labor gangs who built the pyramids and the deployment of snitches at every pay grade which kept the brutalized workers at every level from revolting. So say the archeologists.
Especially because lots of federal employees stick pretty close to a 40 hour a week schedule. I guess the other 40 hours will be spent alone in the office, spinning in wheely chairs?
I guess it's more comfortable than hanging out in their garages hiding from their wives and kids. Which is probably what they would be doing otherwise.
Love the idea of explicitly saying, "I'm here to try and get a bunch of you fired," and then expecting to get a functioning laptop within 120 days from a govt employee. Like, a lot of complaints about them is overblown but if there's a group of people capable of slow rolling an internal process...
It takes minimal security clearance to access government networks at the low level (Active Directory, Teams/Outlook), but even that takes a month+ for most volunteers and contractors to obtain. It’s possible they could be fast tracked. Another stunt, spying isn’t going to produce anything meaningful
Seems like the usual cohort of little right wing nuts who join any Republican administration. The difference is that this time around, there will be few, if any, adults supervising the whole venture.
I was thinking about these exact things… I also wonder if it wouldn’t be illegal for government employees to do what DOGE tells them. It has no legal authority. The whole thing will end up a huge mess if they actually expect agencies to take their direction. Lawsuits ahoy…
There’s usually a huge backlog when a new admin comes in and it can take years for new appointees to get their background checks. It’s definitely going to trip them up if they bother with trying to follow the law. Then again, will they bother?
Because if the President says give this person a clearance, they have to get one. Which is what will happen here. Musk will hand Donald a piece of paper with the names and a request for clearance and say sign here. Donald will sign.
Perhaps being quick to mock the ridiculousness of the plan warrants consideration, especially if we note how propaganda works to turn discussion/focus away from the real issues. Looking "stupid" and "absurd" is a proven tactic for whatever agenda is playing out.
Look to the first admin - there will be so many to hold accountable for so much criming, will probably take close to a decade to do so, assuming a responsible DoJ comes into power (big assumption). By then, so much damage - institutional knowledge loss causing nat'l security issues, etc.
I think this is going to be the fun part to watch. Of course, every department will have a few people who really want to personally impress Elon and try to help, but most ppl will realize any prolonged contact is bad for their jobs and avoid. It'll drive them mad.
a lot of people are very understandably worried-to-terrified at what this administration is going to attempt to do but I think we've really been underselling how incredibly funny it's going to be watching them fail spectacularly
He effed stuff up fairly well first time around. So now half the population thinks with half a brain, having turned over the other halves to MAGA because they are just so entertaining. This time he’s got help galore from Fox and SCOTUS and all the MAGA suck-ups. Time to be more wary, not less.
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GTFO, get a subpoena
This has always been half baked but they want people to work for free too?
(Project 2025 slides start scrolling)
"No."
It seems Elmo is convinced that he has conceived of a brilliant way to bypass things like the Hatch Act.
https://www.justice.gov/jmd/ethics/summary-government-ethics-rules-special-government-employees
Break & claim it is fixed.
What a disaster this is.
What are they going to do, wander the empty halls after the lights go out?
Oh. No. They are going to run back to their Signal (!?) chat rooms first.
And considering that agenda 1/2
+ Little wannabes drawn into this cult of Theo/Tech Broligarchy, they'd work 80+ hrs/wk for free, no?
I wonder if they've been recruiting "interns" & scouting terrain...