No matter what the US does, the rest of the world is going to spend the next twenty years dismantling US power and influence because we are too dangerous and unreliable to maintain it.
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The USA is currently being frozen out by ordinary people the world over - who make small, everyday choices around purchasing and consumption.
Corporations are adjusting supply chains to meet shifting consumer demands.
Governments take longer to implement policy changes.
#ElbowsUp
The Anschluss is the wrong model for US policymakers because most Austrians welcomed the Nazis. But the X algorithm promotes the small number of Vichy Canadian accounts, so extremely online Trumpites assume they would be welcomed as liberators.
The better model would be the two previous American invasions in 1775 and 1812-14, which were expected to be greeted with joy by the populace but ended in a spectacular lack of success for the invaders.
Yeah one of the issues with that model is the incomparably less favourable force parity now compared to back then. Doesn’t mean the US would secure and annex Canada long term, but they would conquer the population centres and decapitate command and control. That much is almost certain.
In 1775 they seized Montreal. In 1813 they took and burned York (now Toronto). But I'm referring more to the underlying political perceptions than the actual strategy.
You already lost; to Russia. Their propaganda has infiltrated most of your medias, politicians, influencers. They control your president. This is a decade old invasion, every day we hear about someone powerful owing them money. Your elites were bought.
It seems that your CIA, NSA, FBI failed you, they only win in TV shows these days. I have no doubt that you will be involved in ww3, but this time you are on the side of the aggressor. The rest of the world is still stunned at what you are becoming.
You can sit there stunned and wait with your mouth open while we bring WWIII to your doorstep, also (that being how world wars work). Or you can stop treating this like it’s already in the bag and offer support for people trying to reverse the course
trump etc will only respond to force (there’s not exactly a functioning, reliable ‘law’ now): so I’m wondering what the ratio is of [Americans prepared to forcibly remove *all* these insurgents (it’s come to that)] to [Americans either too despondent to try, or actively supporting a fascist tyrant]…
I feel like this is grooming, where he starts “joking” and then pushes the envelope, until the overton window moves. And they will turn calling out back on the accuser.
We have probably already lost. And our obligation to our fellow global citizens is to try to dismantle this bullshit from within so they don’t have to do it for us.
American soldiers won’t fight Canadians?? Look up how many mass shootings there have been on US military bases. American soldiers will shoot other American soldiers, ffs, they’re not going to stop at Canadians.
We have been keeping a terrified eye on the ramping rhetoric, stoked anger, and dehumanization of our country and its leaders. Trump needs his base and troops pissed at Canada, and the fact our country doesn't believe one iota in American 'manifest destiny' is only fuelling their resentment.
What has us horrified, is the relative silence from everyday Americans and people in government who are just still saying it's a joke, or are dead silent instead of shrieking "WHAT THE HELL!? NO! THAT'S WAR!"
He's stupid enough to *try*, and we all know it here.
I saw one reporter mouth off at upset Canadians that "We'd never invade your stupid country, relax."
He was more pissed that we were accusing him and scared, rather than at his own country for daring to mistreat and threaten a horrified ally. THAT is telling, and lots of Canadians are seeing it.
If you think it would never happen, then you've nothing to lose by making *sure* it doesn't. Because if it does, and you said nothing this whole time? Your silence will have fuelled their justification.
De-Trumpification might be easier with an occupying force in situ. If it was done by sensible people it might not be as stuffed up as de-Baathification run by GWB and his nitwits
It seems like that’s the sort of thing that should work in principle, but the “If” in “If it was done by sensible people…” is doing a hell of a lot of work. One thing the rise of Trump has shown us is that we absolutely cannot count on people being sensible.
Thanks for all this. I would like to see a clearer line being drawn between "Canada as 51st state" and "that means a violent, bloody invasion" and also "stop musing about Senate seats because surviving Canadians picking through our bombed-out cities won't get the right to vote are you kidding me."
It's all in that 51st state crap. "We are going to make a country that is larger than the other 50 states *combined* just another state" it's obvious nonsense and obviously bad faith. And that's their *best* argument.
Yeah I’m really hoping Americans who hear jokes about this stare fixedly while saying something like “you realize there’s no peaceful way to do this, right? You realize this means bombing Calgary, tanks across the Niagara, assassinating the new Prime Minister, interning half of Toronto, right?”
And thats the GOOD news. Forty Million potential Insurgents, all within an hours drive of your border, all of whom look and sound just like you. All of whom own a box of matches. No police state is *that* secure.
It wouldn't be one way either. Canadians may not be great in number, but those who've trained to fight in their hellish territory will hard as nails. They held sniper kill distance record 3540m for 6 years until a Ukrainian took it!
There would be loses. They are also NATO. You'd be the aggressor.
"How many people do you think should die in order for us to make Canada join us? Because that's what you're saying. Will YOU sign up for the Army? Your partner? Kids?"
Yes, especially this. There are a lot of pleas from Americans asking Canadians to do something about this situation and it's frustrating AF. It is YOUR country and we - Canadians and the world - NEED you all to fight, resist, or at least slow the progress of fascism down.
Exactly! It's kinda hard for the US's 'allies' to help when Trump and co have spent the last few weeks turning us into enemies. We're scrambling to protect ourselves from the Trump-Putin axis; our cavalries can't save the US if we're also trying to support Canada, Denmark, Ukraine and co.
Canadians doing something looks exactly the same as an American civil war, except without a centralized opponent to negotiate with and far more extreme and indiscriminate spite-fueled violence. For everyday Americans, it's the worst-case non-nuclear scenario. https://theconversation.com/why-annexing-canada-would-destroy-the-united-states-249561
I think of the likely terror attacks on the Gaza Mar-a-Largo if he pushed through there and realize that would be teeny tiny potatoes compared to an America where so many of me and my fellow citizens look and sound like Americans.
this is true but i think the pentagon literally won't do it, i think a lot of generals are literally going to pretend like they didn't hear him if he tries to start a war with canada
Maybe! We do often see a lot of resignations in recent days when Trump turns his eyes on some offices, and I feel like "leading a campaign so bad it ends up in history books" would be a powerful incentive
This may have been the case during the first Trump administration, but this is why he has been installing loyalists into the military command structure, people who would do these things.
It's tempting to say that none of them read any history, but the problem is they only read it as, "it's a good plan, and they only failed because they weren't *us*, the exceptional, great, unique, etc. U.S., and they didn't have Trump; we are and we do."
I think our sane states need to plan now and draw a bright red line that if crossed triggers secession. Declaring war with Canada or Mexico or other allies should certainly be on the secession side of such a line.
I am very sad that I have to agree with you. I grew up in the ‘50s, when much of the World still thought we were good guys. (The South American countries whose leaders we helped overthrow might beg to differ, though.)
Seconded. I say this without rancour or sarcasm, I cannot wait to see how my US American friends could live in a country or countries that no longer has to be shaped by being the global hegemon. That shit changes you, and not for the better
My country, Australia, is in the unusual position of being
(1) the regional hegemon
(2) below the United States in the pecking order, and it's not close
Even the fact that we're the regional hegemon forces us to justify it with contradictory beliefs, paternalism, ethnic supremacism, etc.
Many of my US American friends want so badly to do good and are hamstrung by the fact that the lowest several layers of their knowledge of the world have been laid by an apparatus devoted to continuing fascist power, and that knowledge can't be displaced because it remains predictive
Like, the sense that America is the (intrinsically) greatest country in the world is fascist and gives license to terrible things, but as long as the US can maintain hegemony that sense will be validated and reinforced by the fact that America will be the (materially) greatest country in the world
He and his proxies telegraphed their intentions at every opportunity and Project 2025 published (!) the plan but US citizens still elected Trump a second time. How many times does the US need to renege on agreements (NAFTAv2, Paris, etc.) or associations (NATO, UN, etc.) before we say frak off.
Comments
The USA is currently being frozen out by ordinary people the world over - who make small, everyday choices around purchasing and consumption.
Corporations are adjusting supply chains to meet shifting consumer demands.
Governments take longer to implement policy changes.
#ElbowsUp
But also, we should not start World War III because we will lose it.
That it is now a ‘bad actor’ in the world.
That its policies are nihilistic in nature - that the cruelty is the point.
The world is turning its back - in both small, immediate and slower-burn long term ways.
He's stupid enough to *try*, and we all know it here.
He was more pissed that we were accusing him and scared, rather than at his own country for daring to mistreat and threaten a horrified ally. THAT is telling, and lots of Canadians are seeing it.
Be loud. Please. Now's the time; not later.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-bill/1936?q=%7B"search"%3A"congressId%3A119+AND+billStatus%3A%5C"Introduced%5C""%7D&s=1&r=32
There would be loses. They are also NATO. You'd be the aggressor.
-signed, a worried Canadian
Is there hope?
(1) the regional hegemon
(2) below the United States in the pecking order, and it's not close
Even the fact that we're the regional hegemon forces us to justify it with contradictory beliefs, paternalism, ethnic supremacism, etc.