The way people treat dating sims and VNs are insane I think I'd be more intimidated making a dating sim than making a shmup and a shmup is already the big "outersider thinks they know better and then fucks up the basics" genre.
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i think part of it is just that making a shitty bad VN is the easiest possible thing for a game dev team with an artist and a writer to do so it shows up as the jokes
Yeah, this goes for anything with a low barrier to entry. It develops a bad reputation. As somebody who's used Poser since version 1. (Yes, really) And Caligari Truespace before that, I have developed a thick skin about what people consider "cheap. trash" (AI is bullshit though).
I have a counterpoint to this where if you complain about Visual Novels/Dating Sims "not being taken seriously". Then you should have to produce rigorous documentation that you've never misidentified or referred to a Japanese adventure game as a "Visual Novel"
On a more serious note I think the genres have kinda a fuzzy line. Like obviously Zork isn’t a visual novel (it doesn’t have visuals for starters) but what about the updated version of hitchhiker’s guide to the galaxy?
I'm less interested in technical definitions. And more that people don't start from modern day assumptions and work backwards to create definitions/false histories.
That's a pretty difficult one considering a lot of the mystery VN classics (Portopia, YU-NO, Ace Attorney, etc) have a lot of adventure game elements. Not to say a genre separation isn't useful, but it's pretty hard to find that line
But in the case of Portopia it is clearly an adventure game. It plays with a text parser. It was inspired by adventure games. Released in a Japanese adventure game boom. And the games it directly influenced were adventure games.
This is to be compared with the jRPG which is treated with the the same degree of disrespect but the genre conventions are so moldable and flexible that people manage to make cool things even when treating the genre with complete disdain.
Hey now I'll be the first to admit I am over my head on this whole topic. Not my genres!! But I know better to underestimate the craft put into basically any genre, even (and ESPECIALLY) the ones I *hate*.
I just tire of seeing things like "I can't believe people are still upset about the term roguelike" and "There are no Shmups in this Shmup sale!" on the same day, from the same poster.
Also you're allowed to wander in with utter confidence to make fighting games. You SHOULDN'T do it, because it's too much work, and you will fuck up, but you WILL end up with a mizuumi page a discord that plays your game over parsec.
It's funny you brought that up, because I'm hosting a Game Jam where the whole point is to make a Fighting-Game in a period that's not nearly enough time to make a Fighting-Game
TBH being the author of some weird kusoge FG that has a super-passionate community of about six people sounds like a much cooler fate than being the author of "correctly built indie metroidvania #345589679" that gets a "8/10 it's pretty good I guess" review on IGN.
i could write 2000 words about how romance in games is inherently always going to be weird but the thing about dating sims is that the developers would say "yeah we know all that shit. now shut up and date this character"
Every April Fools I wince when I see "haha see the joke is you're DATING the characters!!!" like please piss off for the rest of eternity, I'd rather have a good joke than the most rehashed and disrespectful gag be regurgitated for _another year_
In today's topical case, at least, I'm at least 100% certain they're going to be earnestly unhinged and horny with it. Like, maybe it'll turn out trope-y, but they've had a whole year to decide whether it's actually a good idea.
Irony poisoning is real and it's too common in games. Just be earnest! Make what you want! You're not gonna be the next Tobyfox or whatever goal you've set above Simply Creating if you are ashamed of your creation.
from what ive seen and from what i feel its just kinda people being exasperated with the amount of "Ironic" dating sim games that make fun of the genre and make the whole joke be "Guys arent dating sims sooo ridiculous? Isn't it funny that we're doing one? So ironic!" (1/2)
all the critically acclaimed ones that everyone loves are all written out of a place of genuine sincerity, which is what people want more of. theres a lot of shitpost-y indie ones that just kinda make fun of anime tropes and stuff to the extent where they lack an identity, its just irony poisoning
I'm more half-way through making my first VN, but it isn't a dating sim. Personally I'd be interested in trying that in the future for the challenge but I'd have to have a really intriguing premise.
I think the challenge is based on how much you enjoy writing character interactions. (It's my fav)
Hey there, I'm an RPG Maker fanatic who's recently become interested in making a VN, and I've never heard of Ren'py until right now. So uhhh. Thank you. I'm gonna go sink a bunch of time into this now 😂😂😂
It requires light scripting but it is incredibly basic (based on python). You should have no problem. The only coding experience I had before was dark basic and Papyrus (Skyrim and Fallout 4's scripting language).
The tutorial that ships with the SDK is easy and there are great resources on YT.
I feel like no one actually knows how to make a beat 'em up they're just sometimes somehow good on accident so everyone knows to give everyone else grace
The purest proof of this is UFO 50 somehow handling every genre immaculately, then the beat em up and the shmups suck. Not even for cool reasons they are just not good.
Shoulder buttons are attacks and, if you're froggy, you can hold a shoulder down while twirling the analog to keep the limb extended while changing direction all sim super / luffy / mr fantastic style
What every dev thinks freedom in a beat em up means: parries, dodgerolls, i-frames on jumping, everything cancels into blocking or any of the above
What true freedom is: giving the player Xrd Faust f.S xx 236P
It's a level of exasperation i am intimately familiar with but unfortunately combined with the general inability to give grace online it can be super intimidating for someone who wants to just mess around
The more genres I get into, the more I think that *every* genre is the big "outsider thinks they know better and then fucks up the basics" genre. The closest things to exceptions to this rule are genres that have become so ingrained an ubiquitous that there's no such thing as an outsider anymore.
The question is more: "Which genres do people feel overly bold diving blindly into?" cause yeah, you can't go blind into any genre, but some genre attract fools more than others.
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I tend to use VN where the gameplay is mostly choices on where to direct the narrative and/or reactions to what just happened.
Adventure games more interacting with the world (inc. Inventory puzzles)
(despite my previous joke)
But in the case of Portopia it is clearly an adventure game. It plays with a text parser. It was inspired by adventure games. Released in a Japanese adventure game boom. And the games it directly influenced were adventure games.
I just tire of seeing things like "I can't believe people are still upset about the term roguelike" and "There are no Shmups in this Shmup sale!" on the same day, from the same poster.
Genre Dicks should unite!
Lasts until June
I think the challenge is based on how much you enjoy writing character interactions. (It's my fav)
I've dabbled in RPG Maker. The technical aspects alone make it much harder than Ren'py. (provided you can handle your own art and sound design).
Hmu if you ever want to learn more RPG Maker 👀
The tutorial that ships with the SDK is easy and there are great resources on YT.
Results are inconclusive
and I want it.
https://youtu.be/sGR9v4DBOkQ?si=er7gJPy1EBEy1WKP
What true freedom is: giving the player Xrd Faust f.S xx 236P