I’m too deep into Musk trivia. But he didn’t come here h1b. He came on a school visa. Didn’t go to school. Stayed here illegally. Later got citizenship on the basis of that fraud. Money cleaned up the problems later.
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Yeah, he is pretty vulnerable when MAGA decides to go after him.
They already hope to denaturalize large numbers of people. If he was denaturalized for some reason it would force a sale of SpaceX in a process entirely controlled by the administration.
Aside from his citizenship issues, they can go after him as a national security threat, and there are numerous active federal investigations which threaten him and his businesses.
No one's going after Musk. Why do you think he spent so much to get Trump elected?
This schism was always inevitable.
Trump placated Musk by giving him DOGE, but DOGE has no real power. The real power is with Russ Vought, the Christian Nationalist architect of Project 2025 who'll run OMB.
But the deal with his citizenship is that there appears to be clear cut fraud with his student visa when he applied to Stanford, but clearly never intended to enroll.
Whatever administrative decision that swept that under the rug can be attacked.
That is a lot of hoops to jump through for anyone who might be interested in arranging a thoroughly corrupt fire sale of the most valuable private company in the U.S. but I expect someone will get the process rolling at some point, if only for leverage.
Eh, I am a radical and think anyone who wants to be an American should be an American.
This hyper obsessive focus on citizenship is a new thing in our culture, and only really became possible when we started keeping birth records in WWII.
The new focus on credentials gives cover to racists.
Yes this argument always fell flat for me. I don’t care that he was here illegally. It was a long time ago and he ended up finding his way into the American system anyway. (But then, I don’t really care about immigration generally, so there’s also that…)
There is no statute of limitations on lies told for the purpose of obtaining the US citizenship. Regardless of how much time elapsed, one is subject to citizenship loss indeed such lies are discovered.
Feel free to campaign for laws abolishing any and all naturalization requirements. But for now these rules are set by long established laws. We should not waive our laws simply because someone is rich.
I don't think they're waived because he's rich, necessarily. It's more that they're waived for millions and millions of people including him because we (the US) don't actually care that much.
The 13th vice president of the US was also a whore and the president's bitch? And who's this buch guy? I'm no historian and on Mucinex so this thinking is hard rn
I have been waiting on a full expose' on this. All of us in the Bay Area know this but for some reason it hasn't resonated that the dude earned income in America while on student visa which can be a deportable offense.
To be clear, he dropped out at Penn 2 courses shy of graduating. He was accepted to Stanford graduate program, probably Master's not PhD, but did not enoll, probably because his admission was rescinded for not finishing undergrad. Penn granted his undergrad degrees 2 years later by lowering the bar.
Why do I feel like this is all cheerleading for the apocalypse? If do not see a soft landing for any of us. I am not a fan of Musk but he has a point about Visas which should probably be defended somewhere.
Look into the jobs he's filling with those h1b visas. They're not for talent they couldn't otherwise find stateside. I've worked in tech for 20+ years competing with these people for jobs. They're nice, but not geniuses. Tech companies use h1b as a way to drive down wages for American workers.
That is fair. It sounds like you have more insight than I do. I just have a hard time alining with people like Steve Bannon even if it’s against Musk. I also don’t want us to become anti immigrant.
Which is why he needs to watch his back. There’s only room for one alpha MAGA. If he keeps getting out over his skis, Trump’s going to do what needs to be done.
Musk wouldn’t be the world’s richest man for very long after Trump cancelled all Space X and STARLINK contracts, makes life very difficult for Tesla and deports his ass back to South Africa. And Musk’s contribution to Trump’s win is vastly overstated, if he really helped at all.
A POTUS cannot wave his hand and cancel military contracts.
And to say Trump’s largest donor who owns a large social media platform that provided billions of views of pro-Trump propaganda & a PAC micro-targeted millions in swing states with misleading ads “didn’t have any effect” is silly.
Why do you think Bezos is genuflecting to Trump? He’s scared to death of endangering all of the government contracts Amazon has with the Federal Government. Trump can do a lot of damage to Musk, and Musk is expendable just like anyone else.
Money always solves the visa issues. Who can forget Melania’s “genius” application? And she certainly was working illegally in her young years of porn photo mags.
H1B visa interview in 2026... "Okay. I am very impressed with your physics credentials. We would like to come into the US R&D mainstream... One thing... Could you spend a year growing, picking, processing, and serving food before you start? We're kind of short in those areas"
When his backers realized he was undocumented, did they perhaps arrange an H1B?
It’s pretty common for students to convert to H1B, except usually without the dropping out/staying illegally/getting it fixed by people with connections steps.
He did go to school. "Musk later transferred to the University of Pennsylvania and received bachelor's degrees in economics and physics. He moved to California in 1995 to attend Stanford University but never enrolled in classes,"
He did receive bachelor’s degrees, but they were apparently awarded a few years after he left Pennsylvania. Not clear he completed his degrees before he moved to California and Stanford also has no record of his admission. A lot depends on his own assertions.
"but they were apparently awarded a few years after he left Penn." That could be explained by him finishing the course work but not having specific requirements for graduation, for example, completion of a thesis. I'm not defending him, btw. I can't stand the guy.
There are several possible explanations. None particularly nefarious for a US citizen.
The aspect Josh is pointing out is that he appears to have overstayed his student visa or otherwise violated its terms when he began working in start-ups. Lying to immigration is grounds for revocation.
The only administration that has really pursued this type of revocation of citizenship is the last Trump administration. But they probably could under the concealment and willful misrepresentation provision.
He was admitted to Stanford, but he did not enroll. I suspect his admittance was rescinded when Stanford discovered his failure to finish undergrad at Penn.
My personal experience, from Stanford grad school, is that Stanford is an unethical money grubbing institution.
It is normal to get admitted before you finish your undergraduate degree with the assumption that you will complete it before enrollment.
No real evidence for it but it’s not the biggest leap of faith. Some departments treated masters students as funding sources so getting in wasn’t even hard.
I got into a chemistry phd program the normal way. But the physics dept had a low yield of students after I completed 1 yr, and accepted me to transfer depts. I didn't even apply. I was just informed by my academic advisor
Student status is conferred every term on the basis of enrollment, annual break, or post degree training. If he didn’t attend Stanford, the point stands.
Yes, you're correct. But he did achieve 2 bachelor degrees from U Penn so saying he didn't go to school while he was on a student visa is not correct. He did. But he did not attend Stanford while staying on his student visa, which is illegal.
It would be better if they just fought and escalated the fights until the ketchup packets on the ears turn into real projectiles fired.
Trump has to keep one-upping everybody, including himself, even if it is all a show. For his next assassination attempt, Musk might cut him down with a machete.
Came here to say this. The fact that he’s likely eligible for deportation is pretty out in the open at this point, and there’s a solid legal case if he pisses off the wrong people.
I’m 50% “haha those dumb fucks deserve each other” and 50% “it’s a political imperative for Dems to find ways to exacerbate this intra-fascist fight to save our country as much damage as possible”
What are specifics of "money cleaned up"? plead guilty, pay a fine legitimizing his residency? Is there a law for that? Did he bribe an official to produce false documents? Is his status in perpetual legal proceeding with his minions filing endless motions?
He also comes from a society where south Asians were brought to South Africa as indentured workers. Indians were treated as a separate racial class. One wonders how he’s getting along with Vivek Ramaswamy.
The war isn't over yet, and sides are still being chosen. Those are the people who couldn't even decide if Kamala Harris was Indian, Asian, OR Black, as though a person is restricted only to be in one category. They need a sorting hat.
It would have been an F-1. He could have converted to an H-1b later, but without knowing his actual pathway, there's no way to know what he did/didn't do. You just can't "become" a US citizen: you either are petitioned for by family or through the H1-b.
As a manager I dealt with H1B employees and contractors and I recall that the workers needed an employer to sponsor them. So conversion from student visa to H1B is messy. The objective was to hold on to that employer in order to obtain a green card, then try to become a naturalized citizen.
It's the same process: find an employer who sponsors you. But, the F1 (student) gives someone an "optional practical training" (OPT), which let's them work for 1 year before getting the H1B.
But the question remains whether he really was a student. Did he obtain the F1 student visa under false pretenses? Was he just buying time to get a EB-5 visa? I seriously doubt he got an H1B unless some fraud was involved.
Here's the reality of immigration: 1) if he lied, it likely will not matter and 2) if he entered through a port, it doesn't matter if his visa expired: USCIS doesn't look at "out-of-status" when adjudicating an immigration petition (only State does when processing a visa)..
Typically, lying on a visa application will only result in denaturalization if 1) it was a national security-level lie (think Nazis, spies, etc.) or 2) the lie is about your identity/criminal record. These are "material" lies: if not for the lie, the visa would not have been issued.
Only as dangerous as the richest man in the world. But what if all of his wealth was sanctioned- seized- nationalized. MAGAs are fully in Trump’s control. Tech-bros would be happy to take Musk’s as WH influencers.
I thought he got a bachelor in material science. Please tell me I'm wrong! I'd also like to know if he's ever had a Weschler IQ test administered by a licensed clinician, if he washes his hands after using public bathrooms and why he can't afford a decent facial.
Seriously, he has 2 undergrad degrees from Penn - ecomonics and physics. Both of those were awarded when Penn lowered the bar 2 years after Musk left without finishing his coursework.
I'm asking a question. When you decide that it's incorrect to ask for evidence, you're the one in the wrong. There's a lot of debate rn about whether or not he actually completed the coursework for his undergrad. Maybe you should direct your ire at an actual punching bag and not my curiosity?
Ire? You invited folks to tell you you're wrong. I did.
He does not have a bachelor in material science. I don't know about the Weschler IQ test, washing his hands after using public bathrooms or facials. I'll let someone else offend you by answering the very questions you asked.
Lol. You told me I was wrong for asking a question. Maybe don't be a dick when people are actually asking for information. Had I made an affirmation and was unwilling to correct it, then I would have been at fault. Do you realize how silly this banter is?
You: "Please tell me I'm wrong!"
Me: "You're wrong." (with a fucking smiley emoji!)
You: "Maybe don't be a dick when people are asking for information."
Me: "WTF? I gave you exactly what you asked for!"
Which, you’d think - for anyone with even the slightest amount of self-awareness and sense of humility - would make him a lot more empathetic to immigrants per se, not just his fellow well off, sheltered tech bros.
But like a lot of the tech bros, he seems like a borderline sociopath…🤷🏻♂️
I don't think we can even give him that benefit of the doubt. I have empathy for sociopaths because they're made by repeated and extreme forms of torture and abuse. A psychopath is born that way. Look at his father. Elon is just a predestined, genetic stain on the world.
Are people really saying that Elon is an illegal and is also a liar? I have heard that before. I don’t know if it is true but many people are saying that. That Musk came here and worked illegally and is now lying about it. Many people.
Mohr Davidow, the VC firm which invested in Zip2, also cleaned up Musk’s U-Penn situation, effectively buying him his degree. Musk is a Russian doll of fraud — the more you look, the more you find.
Musk claims he graduated in 1995, MD invested in Zip2 in 1996, Penn claims Musk graduated in 1997. Musk chalks up the 2-yr discrepancy to some supposed requirements which were waived retroactively. Nothing but lies.
My theory is that he's still getting even for US apartheid sanctions. It's why he fled SA. I call BS on the conscription reason he's given; all those bros fled SA b/c they knew SA's easy wealth era for whites only was over.
2 degrees from Penn after they lowered the bar 2 years after he left. No degrees from Stanford as he was never a student there. He was admitted, but did not enroll.
Comments
They already hope to denaturalize large numbers of people. If he was denaturalized for some reason it would force a sale of SpaceX in a process entirely controlled by the administration.
Musk is vulnerable in a wide variety of ways.
Aside from his citizenship issues, they can go after him as a national security threat, and there are numerous active federal investigations which threaten him and his businesses.
This schism was always inevitable.
Trump placated Musk by giving him DOGE, but DOGE has no real power. The real power is with Russ Vought, the Christian Nationalist architect of Project 2025 who'll run OMB.
Whatever administrative decision that swept that under the rug can be attacked.
Shorting Tesla is easy money if you are about to go public with indictments or other enforcement actions.
It will not be so simple here, but that is the kind of corruption these people aspire to.
He has used that technique to discipline Musk bros in the past to control coverage of his enterprises.
But MAGA doesn’t use Twitter. Their main influence channels are private Facebook groups, Discord channels, YouTube, etc.
Whatever bribes he might offer to get his way can likely get extracted by other means.
Elected’s will try to help him, but if Trump doesn’t go along Musk is doomed.
But yes, Trump will have other grift opportunity
Yet.. trumps lazy. plain cash offers may appeal?
who knows - they are all turning my beloved country into a flaming dumpster fire.
Until he does to it what he did to Twitter and Tesla.
If the Trump administration wanted to force a sale it absolutely could do so.
Only US citizens are allowed to work on ITAR controlled technologies without rarely granted waivers. Everything SpaceX does is under ITAR.
This hyper obsessive focus on citizenship is a new thing in our culture, and only really became possible when we started keeping birth records in WWII.
The new focus on credentials gives cover to racists.
Let’s let the AI decide this one.
And to say Trump’s largest donor who owns a large social media platform that provided billions of views of pro-Trump propaganda & a PAC micro-targeted millions in swing states with misleading ads “didn’t have any effect” is silly.
It’s pretty common for students to convert to H1B, except usually without the dropping out/staying illegally/getting it fixed by people with connections steps.
Who employed Musk? Or did he get some other type of Visa?
He/his fam didn't run from SA until the writing was on the wall that their little apartheid fiefdom was gonna fall.
Everything about him flows from that including his associates.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk
The aspect Josh is pointing out is that he appears to have overstayed his student visa or otherwise violated its terms when he began working in start-ups. Lying to immigration is grounds for revocation.
https://www.ilrc.org/sites/default/files/resources/denaturalization_pa.pdf
My personal experience, from Stanford grad school, is that Stanford is an unethical money grubbing institution.
No real evidence for it but it’s not the biggest leap of faith. Some departments treated masters students as funding sources so getting in wasn’t even hard.
Trump has to keep one-upping everybody, including himself, even if it is all a show. For his next assassination attempt, Musk might cut him down with a machete.
I have no idea what the money solution is
As it does with everything MAGA.
Seriously, he has 2 undergrad degrees from Penn - ecomonics and physics. Both of those were awarded when Penn lowered the bar 2 years after Musk left without finishing his coursework.
He does not have a bachelor in material science. I don't know about the Weschler IQ test, washing his hands after using public bathrooms or facials. I'll let someone else offend you by answering the very questions you asked.
Me: "You're wrong." (with a fucking smiley emoji!)
You: "Maybe don't be a dick when people are asking for information."
Me: "WTF? I gave you exactly what you asked for!"
Hilarious and obviously tweeted by literally thousands of people 💥🍿💙
But like a lot of the tech bros, he seems like a borderline sociopath…🤷🏻♂️
The other thing is that H1B, as far as I can see, is the source of a lot of his cheap overseas labor and that's why he's panicking.
In other words, bribery?