Some ambiguity here in that SCOTUS references facilitating the “release” of Garcia, while district court required his “return.” But SCOTUS doesn’t explicitly take issue with that, just the “facilitate” versus “effectuate” distinction. - ThreadSky

annabower.bsky.social • 5 days ago

Some ambiguity here in that SCOTUS references facilitating the “release” of Garcia, while district court required his “return.”

But SCOTUS doesn’t explicitly take issue with that, just the “facilitate” versus “effectuate” distinction.

Comments

prairiecrab.bsky.social•5 days ago

Dude thrives in hypocrisy, so we’ll see what happens when confronted with this….

“I never did defy a court order,” Trump said.

“And you wouldn’t in the future?” Ingraham asked.

“No, you can’t do that,” Trump said.

ezaherron.bsky.social•5 days ago

I find this to be the concerning part. Whatever the District Court says or does, it will come back to SCOTUS over this passage

notquietmodemd.bsky.social•5 days ago

EXACTLY

jmohrbsky.bsky.social•4 days ago

The SC has been pussy footing around this hoping that tfg will fold. I don't think we are there yet. To the SC: say what you mean and mean what you say. The time for quiet distinctions of speech is past.

itus.bsky.social•4 days ago

This order lays out that Abrego Garcia is due all rights and process as he would in U.S. custody, including that he isn’t subject to *torture*.

Sending it back to the lower Court to determine how the gov’t will “effectuate” his return means he’s still going to be there for a while.

mynahleague.bsky.social•5 days ago

I am also wondering about the words “facilitate”, or “taking steps” it should being “immediate return”. This could drag on.

mynahleague.bsky.social•5 days ago

Sorry about typos, I think my keyboard is auto filling as it pleases.

katie82252.bsky.social•5 days ago

It is! I have the same issue.

peter-maurer.bsky.social•5 days ago

I can’t speak for other OSes, but it seems Apple decided to get a little heavy handed with its predictive text.

mynahleague.bsky.social•5 days ago

I am using my iPad keyboard.

peter-maurer.bsky.social•5 days ago

That would do it! I’ve been using my delete button a lot more lately 😂

ricaoimhin.bsky.social•5 days ago

This language was no doubt required by Roberts et al to allow the signatories to go forward. This is just enough to allow more endless legal fuckery by this administration.

stevebev.bsky.social•5 days ago

Sotomayor statement reminds Boasberg of all the Govt, failures and reminds him to include the things she mentions lest Govt overlook their firm obligations to a person #*kidnapped_and_renditioned
(*my words) by the Govt.

notquietmodemd.bsky.social•5 days ago

I do not like Robert’s request for clarification on “effectuate” and “deference due to the Executive Branch in the conduct of foreign affairs.”
Bullshit! The deference does NOT extend to permitting them to act in a lawless manner.
They must get him back here asap; it’s not mere reasonable efforts.

gobearcats.bsky.social•5 days ago

Yes! The corrupt SCOTUS is playing word games as usual and basically says the government doesn’t have to bring him back as long as they make a phone call and El Salvador says “NO” or EL Salvador doesn’t respond to their calls.
What a joke.

ajlcstout.bsky.social•5 days ago

Wait, where do you get that? I really don’t understand all this.

notquietmodemd.bsky.social•5 days ago

The Supreme Court said unanimously that the U.S. gov’t must “facilitate” his return… (definition “to help bring something about” per Webster). Helping bring something about is less than ie bring him back.
Then they sent back to District Court to clarify “effectuate”

notquietmodemd.bsky.social•5 days ago

Effectuate means bring about result. Then they said deference due in foreign affairs to executive branch.
So now district court will clarify & Trump will appeal that to circuit & scotus.
Ruling strongly implies that the govt MUST TRY to get him back, not that they MUST SUCCEED in getting him back

hellishchildren.bsky.social•4 days ago

What are they going to do? Fly Noem back down there, pretend to ask him if he wants to return to the US, then she comes back and reports he said "No"?

politicsbrooklyboy.bsky.social•4 days ago

So to sum it up, he is not coming back any time soon

leglawla.bsky.social•4 days ago

That won't happen. He'll get back but, because this gov't is full of assholes, they'll probably jerk around for a few extra days just to show they can. These are evil, cruel, bad people. Roberts and his ilk pay them deference they don't deserve.

gobearcats.bsky.social•4 days ago

My heart hopes he makes it back but my brain says he won’t under this corrupt administration

leglawla.bsky.social•4 days ago

For now, Roberts is still in Trump's pocket. Not bringing Garcia back would risk annoying Roberts enough that he could, assuming ACB were to go along, to cause Trump trouble down the road. So, not bringing him back isn't worth it. However, as I said, they will jerk around first.

gobearcats.bsky.social•4 days ago

The issue here is the SCOTUS has no enforcement mechanism over the executive branch and know that which is why they keep giving these weak rulings to the White House where they either side with the executive branch or tell them to just try because SCOTUS wants to avoid a constitutional crisis

khreflectlife.bsky.social•4 days ago

With the slow walking of justice for Drumpf's crimes of election interference I wouldn't doubt it takes until after midterms if at all during this administration.

endmalcompetence.bsky.social•4 days ago

Imagine how different Roberts' response would be if it was his own family kidnapped and thrown into a concentration camp.

notquietmodemd.bsky.social•4 days ago

Our answers would be the same: he must be returned.

chinacatblue.bsky.social•5 days ago

We don’t have time for this shit. Man is at deaths door over there.

rebelsmomada.bsky.social•4 days ago

Fuckin a

torven42.bsky.social•4 days ago

"I want him in this court by Tuesday. I leave it to the Executive Branch as to how they effectuate that."

hyoscine.bsky.social•5 days ago

It seems like it would violate "facilitate" order to take actions in direct opposition to A.G. return to US, right? Such as paying a foreign gov to continue detaining him, to prevent his return?

dfunqued6.bsky.social•5 days ago

what is the distinction?

mooiest.bsky.social•5 days ago

I’m guessing “facilitate” means do what you can in your power to work with El Salvador to get him back, and “effectuate” is more like to ensure an outcome, or make sure he gets back

extremelybitter.bsky.social•5 days ago

Facilitate is 'help' thing happen, effectuate is 'do thing'--so US needs to aid Abrego Garcia in getting back, but District Court can't order the US to execute his return because El Salvador could prevent. Optimistically, it's telling the DC to clarify how far he expects US to go if ES resists.

katie82252.bsky.social•5 days ago

I don’t see this as a loss for Trump. Garcia will not come back. 😥

dfunqued6.bsky.social•4 days ago

i tend to agree... scotus is endlessly hiding behind these semantic debates

extremelybitter.bsky.social•5 days ago

I hope that's not the case, but Trump's loss here isn't just the one case--It makes it clear that SCOTUS isn't okay with them illegally disappearing people and walking away. If they can't get him back, I think that potentially opens new legal challenges to sending people to CECOT in the first place.

katie82252.bsky.social•5 days ago

I don’t know legalese, but I think the Court favored Trump. Facilitate is to help along. Effectuate is make it happen.

dorisvader.bsky.social•4 days ago

How about if the Sotomayor, Kagan and Jackson handle these written decisions, make them clear! The men are too busy waving their dicks around, guess Barrett's ok with that. Bring this man home, make it happen. Outrageous and sick.

crystalri.bsky.social•4 days ago

I don't know. But this is some prickly middle-of-the-way crap that makes no sense to anybody. Grifter trump will call it a win.

strangerfive.bsky.social•4 days ago

For the first time in my life I am so disappointed in US. I am not sure how it is different than Iran and other countries that have extrajudicial imprisonment and killings.

prodigyxspectre.bsky.social•5 days ago

“The buyer has already received the human merchandise. So while we can help you get it back, we can’t actually do anything to rapidly remedy the situation because we decided selling humans is legal: remedying our earlier wrong decision to declare it illegal.”

Heinous, virulent death of law

camofarc.bsky.social•5 days ago

They are never going to go against rump!!!!!!!!!!!

mdenger15.bsky.social•5 days ago

That strikes this layman as a difference without a distinction.

brianmasson.bsky.social•5 days ago

You say potato, I say potahto.

katiekaleidoscope.bsky.social•5 days ago

Release = released from the prison in El Salvador.

Return = returned to the USA.

It’s an important distinction.

melanieinmiami.bsky.social•4 days ago

Agree! I’m also not happy with the word “release” vs “return”. Trump will happily have Garcia dumped on the streets of El Salvador to be killed by the very gangs he fled his country to escape.

katiekaleidoscope.bsky.social•4 days ago

Exactly!! 🤬

schlotrvlr.bsky.social•4 days ago

This is what my brain went straight to. Release is not return and what if Bukele decided he didn't want that prisoner released and he tries something nefarious to get him back inside after his "release". Facilitate is the other beef I have, as if that's all they CAN do.

kaiserbrown.bsky.social•5 days ago

Strikes this lawyer as the same.

danblondell.bsky.social•5 days ago

Could “effectuate” connote mandating some kind of military force if necessary, while “facilitate” suggests cooperation with the other country.

kaiserbrown.bsky.social•5 days ago

I haven't read the SCOTUS ruling, so I don't know precisely how they're using it, but in general it might be a question of "you can't make El Salvador release them" versus "you need to work with El Salvador to release them"

oneoneder.bsky.social•5 days ago

"Effectuate" means, "make it happen or I'm putting you in contempt of court."

"Facilitate" means "give it a try, but we recognize you put him outside the power of the US 😊 "

oneoneder.bsky.social•5 days ago

"Effectuate" implies that the district court has found that the US DOES have effective control over the deported El Salvadoran, which as far as I know has not been subject of evidentiary hearing

I think that's a reasonable assumption, but Supreme Court wants Trump to have kayfabe protection

exarch404.bsky.social•4 days ago

In a far darker turn of events, ICE may already be aware that it's no longer possible to return him alive, but they're trying very hard not to let that fact become public knowledge because the propaganda machine is still months away from making that an acceptable sacrifice for the average American.

oneoneder.bsky.social•5 days ago

Anyway, as a general matter, it's extremely unusual for the US to demand that a country hand over one that country's nationals, except via the extradition process. The fact that the wrongfully gulaged individual is an El Salvadoran citizen is a wrinkle in the case, if El Salvador wants it to be.

melanieinmiami.bsky.social•4 days ago

Also a layman, but as I see it, SCOTUS is giving the Trump administration room to claim they tried but 🤷🏻‍♀️ whereas the District Court’s word choice says they WILL get Kilmar Garcia back.

roguechimp99.bsky.social•4 days ago

When I see SCOTUS using “release” I take it as just that so he can be murdered before his return.

jrkelly.bsky.social•5 days ago

I was reading it as effectuate = make it happen by any means including invading ES, facilitate = ask nicely and pay for the flight home.

exarch404.bsky.social•4 days ago

"Facilitate" sounds like "you should assist whoever is going to return him".
While "effectuate" sounds like "YOU will return him".

I get the feeling SCOTUS essentially just defanged the whole order and relegated Garcia to rot in that prison indefinitely, because the judge can't enforce anything.

marycateismary.bsky.social•4 days ago

Semantics.

tktkskeets.bsky.social•5 days ago

Gov is going to say they can’t actually get him out of the prison themselves, all they can do is ask El Salvador to let him out. It is very likely they will not meaningfully try to get him out, just pretend they did and El Salvador said no, and SCOTUS will let them get away with it.

mdenger15.bsky.social•5 days ago

Or, we could all speak ordinary English and say: he should not have been deported. The government erred. Get him back where he belongs and be prepared for one hell of a lawsuit.

marycateismary.bsky.social•4 days ago

🙌

kquilicicarey.bsky.social•4 days ago

Perfect!

dfkpgh.bsky.social•5 days ago

Probably want to make sure Trump doesn't decide to invade El Salvador, given his tendencies.

olderspicier.bsky.social•4 days ago

Justices Roberts el at:

Effectuate means make it fucking happen!

jon-eisenberg.bsky.social•4 days ago

The issue is how, and how much the court can order. That wasn't any clearer yesterday than it is today.

jon-eisenberg.bsky.social•4 days ago

Here's the government's own policy as cited in the separate statement of three justices:
U.S. IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT
11061.1: Facilitating the Return to the United States of Certain Lawfully Removed Aliens
https://www.ice.gov/doclib/foia/dro_policy_memos/11061.1_current_policy_facilitating_return.pdf

sdrose.bsky.social•5 days ago

What’s the difference between the two?

katie82252.bsky.social•5 days ago

Facilitate help. Effectuate make it happen

julius-paulus.bsky.social•5 days ago

“Release” into US custody so US can then “effectuate” return, I guess?

tompaine1776.bsky.social•5 days ago

If it’s unclear how can “it” also exceed authority?

kali8989.bsky.social•5 days ago

yup... no cojones..

they should have ORDERED the govt to bring him back...

AND all the others they sent to the foreign gulag, since NONE OF THEM were accorded due process...

I can't believe this is even up for fvcking debate.....

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