BREAKING: 22 states sue NIH over Trump administration's new 15% cap on overhead for federal research grants. Suit filed federal court in Boston contends lifesaving research 'will grind to a halt' under the policy. Doc: storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.us... - ThreadSky

joshgerstein.bsky.social • 12 days ago

BREAKING: 22 states sue NIH over Trump administration's new 15% cap on overhead for federal research grants. Suit filed federal court in Boston contends lifesaving research 'will grind to a halt' under the policy. Doc: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mad.280590/gov.uscourts.mad.280590.1.0.pdf

Comments

tiktokghost.bsky.social•12 days ago

FINALLY! I was getting pissed wondering when Washington was gonna join

dabinreece.bsky.social•12 days ago

Not a SINGLE red state wanted to sign on to this??? Seriously???

jsxover.bsky.social•12 days ago

15 yrs ago, the head of the Univ Texas Health System told me that UT had $3b in grant funding spread through all campuses. Much (? most) of that will have been through Federal grants.

That fact that TX isn't on that list is one more piece of data that Ken Paxton is a hack.

claw1030.bsky.social•12 days ago

Not only will it hurt research he’s made it effective immediately. So studies that are current and have already allocated the resources are screwed. Depending on disbursement of these grants.

bowlusje.bsky.social•12 days ago

Where is the PA Attorney General? Pitt is ranked #8 in NIH federal funding. This is devastating to patients, workers and medical research!!!

hbadger.bsky.social•12 days ago

he's GOP - I'm guessing that's why PA wasn't one of the states that signed on to the lawsuit today.

gretagroots.bsky.social•12 days ago

Should have been 50 states.

thecarebear.bsky.social•12 days ago

That’s what Trump wants.

He wants research to grind to a halt.

And he wants to privatize research and give it to Big Corp.

forevernever.bsky.social•12 days ago

Big Corp won't do it because very little research directly ends up being "profitable" in the near-term... or really, ever. Big Corp cherry-picks NIH-funded research and then builds upon it.

This will gut US academic and commercial research.

pennysmoak.bsky.social•12 days ago

Doesn’t have to be profitable if they get all the big juicy government contracts. In many ways, I’d much prefer the public funding for most research, because then it must be publicly reported.

zenbitz.bsky.social•12 days ago

but they just cut the juice out of the contracts, that's the whole point.

dnarich.bsky.social•12 days ago

He forgets that US pharma corporations compete in a global market, and what the US does not discover and the government does not license to pharma under the Bayh-Dole Act, will be licensed by pharma from other countries, to the detriment of US pharma business and residents of the US.

thecarebear.bsky.social•12 days ago

Well said.

Trump doesn’t understand much of anything — including himself.

dnarich.bsky.social•12 days ago

Thank you. Proj 2025 is highly critical of scientists and the NIH owning/co-owning patents (e.g. mRNA vaccines) and deriving financial benefit from such, and yet, the Bayh-Dole Act (94 Stat. 3015, and in 35 U.S.C. §§ 200–212) requires out-licensing, and doing so benefits non-profits, academic ctrs.

ericfauman.bsky.social•12 days ago

He wants research in the US to grind to a halt. This is a boon to scientific research in the rest of the world.

murkydistantsafety.bsky.social•12 days ago

It’s not a boon to research anywhere. Research isn’t zero sum, new discoveries are built upon past discoveries. This could represent a huge slowdown to scientific advancement globally.

kejames.bsky.social•12 days ago

Thank you for saying this. I get so infuriated with the international competition angle.

relfal.bsky.social•12 days ago

Absolutely. Nobody wins.

But there will be a brain drain. I'm sure institutions around the world are busy coming up with plans to lure away top researchers. Students applying to study in the US will be reconsidering. US students will be more likely to go abroad.

murkydistantsafety.bsky.social•12 days ago

100 percent. The US is giving up its position and screwing science at the same time.

perpelxity.bsky.social•12 days ago

Just one problem with that.
Big Corp. are fat and lazy.
They don't really teach welfare economics anymore "Market Failures" Why the state picks up the bill for high risk big science.

dosemakestoxin.bsky.social•12 days ago

As someone who works on pharma (rare disease) research/toxicology this is a disaster, pharma doesn't do "basic research" - research that furthers our understanding of diseases or discovers new classes of treatments. We do "translational research" which refines it into a safe drug we can give people

dosemakestoxin.bsky.social•12 days ago

We also rely heavily on doctors, researchers, patient advocates (called KOLs or Key Opinion Leaders) who become experts in these fields because they receive funding to study these diseases for years or decades to become experts and connect to patients.

thecarebear.bsky.social•12 days ago

Well said.

nico-02.bsky.social•12 days ago

IL didn’t disappoint 👏

beege4.bsky.social•12 days ago

So, there appear to be a couple (correct me if I'm wrong) states run by Govs. with an R after their names. My concern is that even if funds are released, there will be so many hoops and caveats that the research will not be credible on the world stage.

will-smiley.bsky.social•12 days ago

All the states have D attorneys general, which is what matters.

phillyfrog.bsky.social•12 days ago

Good.

quadrapole.bsky.social•12 days ago

FYI-
https://pressley.house.gov/2025/02/10/rep-pressley-blasts-trump-musk-attack-on-nih-funding/

pennysmoak.bsky.social•12 days ago

I don’t disagree. In fact, how could legislature incentivize institutions with ginormous endowments to increase funding for these projects & community based programs when they do that instead than subsidizing genocide, especially if they’re taking any public money at all.

quadrapole.bsky.social•12 days ago

Just read the complaint. Very clear re: requirements and rules associated with arbitrarily changing the Indirect Rate.

quadrapole.bsky.social•12 days ago

SPOILER - It's illegal.

quadrapole.bsky.social•12 days ago

Thank you for this!!!

arlenewrites.bsky.social•12 days ago

God speed

itgetzbybuckner.bsky.social•12 days ago

Yet Ohio (Ohio State) and Alabama (U of Alabama), who are slotted to losed MILLIONS of dollars each, among many other red state schools across the nation, decide to sit this one.

Breaking: Alabama new slogan is "Roll-Over Tide"

beege4.bsky.social•12 days ago

Have they already been promised a carve out?

ericfauman.bsky.social•12 days ago

How did you guess?
https://www.al.com/news/2025/02/katie-britt-vows-to-work-with-rfk-jr-after-nih-funding-cuts-cause-concern-in-alabama.html

beege4.bsky.social•12 days ago

Clairvoyant....Nah, actually common sense.

elieg.bsky.social•12 days ago

I read the article you posted. No indication of a carve out for Alabama or red states. Only notable thing was Tuberville supporting the cuts to U of A

ericfauman.bsky.social•12 days ago

No you're right, no carve out yet, but the junior senator specifically asked for a "targeted approach" that spares institutions in Alabama.

Presumably she's calculating that signing on to this lawsuit reduces their chances of a carve out.

daniwelch.bsky.social•12 days ago

Also Pennsylvania?? Half of Pitt's research budget comes from the NIH.

mungomortimer.bsky.social•10 days ago

Good

will-smiley.bsky.social•12 days ago

Most likely it’s not their call, it’s up to their state attorneys general. Which….yeah.

chunyue-yin.bsky.social•12 days ago

I am not surprised that Ohio is not on the list. Just looked at all the twisted biased language on our ballot last November and the year before written by our attorney general.

nowwithmorecheese.bsky.social•12 days ago

Exactly. Yost is a conniving pos

nowwithmorecheese.bsky.social•12 days ago

That’s because the AG of Ohio is an effing pos. There’s no way tOSU is okay with this

faberloughran.bsky.social•10 days ago

Pennsylvania voted in a POS Republican AG. Makes me so mad at my fellow Pennsylvanians that we are not included!

sjseidel.bsky.social•12 days ago

@shilanordone.bsky.social

valmuellerasu.bsky.social•12 days ago

Thank you for sharing this. I've been asking my own employer what is going on, and now I can see we are involved in the class action lawsuit. We otherwise have no communication about this.

pelledge.bsky.social•12 days ago

https://bsky.app/profile/donmoyn.bsky.social/post/3lhtl3rb5tc2x

mariaire2002.bsky.social•12 days ago

When will @cnn.com make this critical story, with pictures (CNN needs pics)maybe of sick and dying children?
They could also run stories of AID being shut down, again, with pics of starving children, women begging. Come on media. Get on it. Dump Trump sanitizing @msnbc.com @abcnewsbot.bsky.social

kolyin.bsky.social•12 days ago

Emergency motion for TRO is here: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mad.280590/gov.uscourts.mad.280590.4.0.pdf

neilforreal.bsky.social•12 days ago

MAGA staking out the "we want more death" political ground.

benfranklinsaid.bsky.social•12 days ago

Their “culture of life” trademark expired some time ago.

boerjebrandt.bsky.social•12 days ago

Y'all need to know including @democrats.org that Putin 🇷🇺 is taking over USA 🇺🇸

#Putin 🇷🇺 doesn't need his military, his navy, his nukes.

He just used his aset #DonaldTrump 🇷🇺

It didn't cost Putin 🇷🇺 a dime...

ann50.bsky.social•12 days ago

Proud to see State of Arizona represented by its amazing AG @krismayes.bsky.social @azagmayes.bsky.social

zibilith.bsky.social•12 days ago

THREAD from this excellent post by @sifill.bsky.social

https://sherrilyn.substack.com/p/democracy-is-crumbling-is-anybody?fbclid=IwY2xjawIXHGJleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHd4-00zW5PpQHvOYsOpBv69Ff2X77Gwnk8TAGic2gd58PFZXZKxdcGyemA_aem_ZdzXt0j5AFba2bWn-vqIdQ

zibilith.bsky.social•12 days ago

"...I was struck by how many readers responded with ...1) well, it’s too late they’ve already downloaded all our information; 2) yeah, but who’s going to make them comply[?]... or 3) even if they defy the court’s order and are held in contempt, who will arrest them? Won’t Trump just pardon them?"

zibilith.bsky.social•12 days ago

..."People *are* doing things. You will meet those people when you start doing things. The easiest form of advocacy is for you to pressure your representatives to oppose the Musk takeover and destruction of our federal agency infrastructure."

zibilith.bsky.social•12 days ago

"In an IG Live this week Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez shared that the calls made by voters to members of Congress last week – both to Democrats *and Republicans* – is beginning to have effect. Note, for example, Republican Senator Moran public expression of concern..."

zibilith.bsky.social•12 days ago

"about the effect of Musk’s actions against the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) on Kansas farmers. https://www.yahoo.com/news/kansas-moran-davids-sound-alarm-195901729.html So folks in red states or districts, you especially need to make these calls. We need to open up a wedge between Trump and congressional Republicans...

zibilith.bsky.social•12 days ago

"That can only happen if they feel pressure from their constituents. If you are in a blue state or a Dem. district, you need to push your representatives to engage the battle relentlessly, to “leave no power on the table,” and to use all of the tools available to them to resist."

- Sherrilyn Ifill

brooklynkid53bskys.bsky.social•12 days ago

Not one red state on the list of plaintiffs

The GOP remains Trump's slave, seemingly without exception

bornindaeb.bsky.social•12 days ago

North Carolina

boneshark.bsky.social•12 days ago

Private schools like Harvard should consider it a win if JD Vance simply does not follow through on his promise to seize their endowments and close down the schools.

eawinick.bsky.social•12 days ago

delessuno.bsky.social•12 days ago

Can I express my ignorance and say that I’m sad it’s the NIH and HHS getting sued when they’re the ones in trouble too?

patronzo1.bsky.social•12 days ago

Josh! It’s Michael Bradley..our careers overlapped centuries ago while I worked at Morning News at ABC and you were at Newsone. I’m retired & living in WV, and I’m so proud of you every time I see your many accomplishments. Wishing you all the success that you can handle

diotimaellen.bsky.social•12 days ago

THANKS for posting this! It gives me some hope that we'll be able to stop this attack on our medical research and our great universities.

srfuzzypants.bsky.social•12 days ago

@fetterman.senate.gov this is what fighting looks like. Your turn. Figure. It. Out.

badtoss.bsky.social•12 days ago

Let's goooo.

sattelliteoflove.bsky.social•11 days ago

lotta dem AGs and not alot of GOP ones

leopards eating faces and all that

mansplainmegan.bsky.social•12 days ago

Ohio notably missing

djinnx.bsky.social•12 days ago

Well here’s how the administration is handling the latest court order:

https://www.news10.com/news/politics/ap-usaid-staffers-turned-away-from-offices-even-after-court-suspends-leave-order/

travging.bsky.social•12 days ago

Oh look, red states just sitting back and taking it.

fakekimmygibbler.bsky.social•12 days ago

Oh, despite Katie Britt's caterwauling it looks like Alabama's Republican government doesn't actually give a damn about this at all. What a shock.

perpelxity.bsky.social•12 days ago

The Heritage Foundation's Make China Great Polices.
China is massively pumping money into the natural sciences.

blueallylove.bsky.social•12 days ago

Happy to see WI in there.

witwarrior.bsky.social•12 days ago

HAWAII!! Go AG Anne Lopez

hrlatinam.bsky.social•12 days ago

Considering the crisis this would inflict on red states it is interesting that they feel no obligation to join to defend their state institutions and economies.

tarastelluto.bsky.social•12 days ago

I had a talk with a friend in academia about this yesterday. It sounds like capping indirects is something that's needed, although the exact % may be up for debate. In normal times, this would mean that they could offer more grants. /1

merz.bsky.social•12 days ago

Indirects are already negotiated between institutions and the feds. If the feds want to lower indirects, that is something that the normal process can accommodate, as it is or with *statutory* revisions — not through illegal executive action.

Informative:

https://drugmonkey.wordpress.com/2015/10/05/rockey-explains-indirect-costs/

merz.bsky.social•12 days ago

The filing from the states is really well written and explains very clearly why Friday's NOT is so wildly in conflict with statute.

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mad.280590/gov.uscourts.mad.280590.1.0.pdf

tarastelluto.bsky.social•12 days ago

But the problem now is that these limits are retroactive, and universities have budgeted that money already. (If they had just said they'd limit them starting July 1, nobody could have really complained). And of course, the goal isn't to offer more grants - it's to destroy higher education.

runagame.bsky.social•12 days ago

This is a good, nuanced take. Thank you. As a grants professional, I've run into this issue myself. Limiting indirect/overhead is smart, and most foundations do it (10-15% even); but doing it retroactively is ridiculous. The goal is "flood the zone" - get uni admins distracted.

jsxover.bsky.social•12 days ago

Isn't the change in indirects simply a contractual break?

I've always wondered if there's a rationale for the differences in indirects to different institutions. In the late 2000s, Brigham & Womens had 84% indirects while UVa, Iowa Oregon were all around 50%.

runagame.bsky.social•12 days ago

It probably is a breach, but IANAL.

I also can’t really comment on why Universities charge such extreme indirect. I’ve never worked anywhere that was over 16%. Feels like a hospital Tylenol markup situation.

tarastelluto.bsky.social•12 days ago

IAL, but I don't know anything at all about these grants. My understanding from my friend is that NIH grants specifically give high indirects, like 59%, which is why universities like them and "why they have so many fucking administrators."

jsxover.bsky.social•12 days ago

IANAL ?-- please explain.

feistybrunette.bsky.social•12 days ago

Are newspapers covering this? Is the news? (I'm on a media blackout) because the American people need to know this is happening. I don't expect @schumer.senate.gov to do anything helpful

zactli.bsky.social•12 days ago

I’ve never had an NIH grant, but I have had several NSF grants, when I was with a university and in my currently role. Are we talking about capping the current 60% overhead charge from the university at 15%? If so, maybe someone can fill me in on why this is bad?

sneakysauce.bsky.social•12 days ago

The F&A/overhead/indirects cover things that cannot be charged to grant budgets as direct costs. The staff in the central office reviews and submits applications, and also manages them post-funding. Lab maintenance, subsidizing use of cores for the science, electricity, IT support…

sneakysauce.bsky.social•12 days ago

…if these things (and there are so many more included in the indirects umbrella) had to be attributed to each and every grant as their own line item, max for direct costs would have to increase accordingly, or, there just wouldn’t be any left for science. It’s complex, this is super high level.

saltysnacker.bsky.social•12 days ago

If this proceeds, US research, and scientists, will go to work for other countries who will happily take them. The red states will be hit hardest as the working class, not the scientists will never find new jobs. The GOP no longer wants the US to be a world leader.

eemac.bsky.social•12 days ago

Lots of explainers on this about IDC paying for research infrastructure (IACUC, IRB, Export Control, FCOI) etc… but one key difference is NIH operates off direct cost limits for grant budgets. IDC doesn’t affect that. Unlike most NSF that has usually total award limits.

essaywells.bsky.social•12 days ago

That is the money which pays to keep up the libraries, laboratories, technical staff - everything that keeps a university functioning. E.g. when a research group gets a $1million grant it pays salaries etc in *that group*, the institution gets an additional $600,000 for everything else.

zactli.bsky.social•12 days ago

I guess I’ve just always been on the side where my research award was reduced by 60% and really felt like I should have got more. So my $million grant affords me $400k for the actual research part. Thanks for the info.

anotherdrmuller.bsky.social•12 days ago

It doesn't work that way https://web.mit.edu/fnl/volume/295/zuber.html

zactli.bsky.social•12 days ago

Very cool…I guess I didn’t know what I didn’t know! Thanks!

essaywells.bsky.social•12 days ago

Notice that Musk's tweet was deliberately constructed to deceive people twice - first by implying that 60% of the total was taken as overhead, second by claiming that was all "administrative".

jmgabriel.bsky.social•12 days ago

It's bad because medical research at universities is good and at a 15% rate there won't be any

zactli.bsky.social•12 days ago

Hmmm. I appreciate the response, but this isn’t a great answer. I’ve been part of research consortiums where university overhead is capped at 10% and research still went forward. I always wondered how much of that 60% was going to pad university admin salaries…which are substantial. Anything else?

professorantony.bsky.social•12 days ago

Atleast in the US, foundations which could afford to only support lets say 10% F&A allowed cost shares with the federal govt. Essentially, the govt-supported F&A from R01-like grants allowed for the additional research to take place for much, much, much less subsidized costs.

jmgabriel.bsky.social•12 days ago

Here's a helpful thread that lays a lot of this out:

https://bsky.app/profile/carlbergstrom.com/post/3lhmtolcc6s2c

drugmonkey.bsky.social•12 days ago

When overhead is below the federal rate, something else is paying for the real facilities and administrative costs. Mostly the fed. IME, as the federal IDC goes up, institutions are less likely to accept low-overheaded grants.

wythelab.bsky.social•12 days ago

direct costs only cover the salary of the research group & their experiments. They don’t cover the lab space, infrastructure (IT which is critical for data handling and storage, hr/admin/tech support, everything from paper towels to janitorial services to keeping lights on), shared equipment, & more

wythelab.bsky.social•12 days ago

We can’t do the work and employ a team without that infrastructure. It is naive to think resources and space should be provided for research for free. Grants w/ 10% overhead (or even worse, with less or 0) are offset by NIH IDCs. some places require permission before even accepting lower rates.

zactli.bsky.social•12 days ago

Great info from the other side. Thanks!

jmgabriel.bsky.social•12 days ago

Given the name of your lab I assume you also have significant support from private funding? So even with that the indirects are critical

jmgabriel.bsky.social•12 days ago

I know that sounds snarky, but it's true. Indirects fund a ton of the infrastructure that makes research possible. My institution isn't even in the top 50 recipients and it translates into something like an $8 million cut to the College of Arts and sciences....

jmgabriel.bsky.social•12 days ago

...and that's not even the cut to the med school, which generates most NIH grants at my institution. I'm not privy to budget discussions, but I really don't know how the school absorbs that level of cut. I'm actually concerned about the viability of my department.

zactli.bsky.social•12 days ago

Thanks for the more in-depth response. No need for snark when folks are just asking questions from their perspective. Appreciate yours.

jmgabriel.bsky.social•12 days ago

And thanks for asking

jmgabriel.bsky.social•12 days ago

Yeah, snark is not helpful here and certainly not my intention

robinbrenizer.bsky.social•12 days ago

Does he think these are profit centers? What a moron.

dumptrump68.bsky.social•12 days ago

Why aren’t all 50 Stated suing?

Since when has research finding become a political and not a human issue?

These GOP Attorney Generals are scum of the earth with their subservience to the Orange Turd!

ladylinds.bsky.social•12 days ago

Considering the last ruling to come out of the federal Court in Boston, I bet this won't be good for him

bluestatedon.bsky.social•12 days ago

https://bsky.app/profile/gregggonsalves.bsky.social/post/3lhthlc7ws22z

cantard.bsky.social•12 days ago

It sucks that our Texas AG furiously humps Trump's leg.

jebnc.bsky.social•12 days ago

Contract law violation

doctt.bsky.social•12 days ago

Brave patriots standing together

pinterman.bsky.social•12 days ago

Trump cares not for the victims of cancer nor those who, one day, might receive the care they need based upon research now underway. He’s already responsible for the deaths of over a million Covid victims. What’s millions more? When does this man end?

courageousgirl2.bsky.social•12 days ago

🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🎯🎯🎯👏👏👏😍

aheise.bsky.social•12 days ago

Glad to see Michigan on the list. I have wondered why Gov. Whitmer has been so silent of late, not to even mention the Silent Senators (Peters and Slotkin).

gueneuera.bsky.social•12 days ago

Good! More red states should have joined though. They also have major research universities

reinhart-kurt.bsky.social•12 days ago

Keep in mind the impacts on NIH is just the start of DOGE's + FElon's attacks on numerous scientific institutions.

reinhart-kurt.bsky.social•12 days ago

They are either weak kneed & afraid of being ousted by FElon or support him.

rosevk.bsky.social•12 days ago

Not a single Republican AG joined.

siamesecats.bsky.social•12 days ago

Its not just research facilities. Friend in academia says this will wipe out not only bio research, but other hard science fields, med schools, even graduate and undergraduate programs.

There are lots of medical schools in red and purple states. I made a list. (See link). https://bsky.app/profile/siamesecats.bsky.social/post/3lhn2yrlhex2u

siamesecats.bsky.social•12 days ago

Interesting. I've read through that complaint, and they're only seeking a TRO/preliminary injunction for the 22 states that signed on as plaintiffs. Which means if you live in a state where your AG refused to join the suit, or doesn't file their own, they're SOL and they suffer the economic pain.

siamesecats.bsky.social•12 days ago

The states who sought relief are MA, MI, IL, AZ, CA, CO, CT, DE, HI, ME, MD, MN, NV, ND, NY, NM, NC, OR, RI, VT, WA, WI

If your state isn't on the list, I'd recommending calling your State AG's office and ask them why they aren't a party to the lawsuit.

https://bsky.app/profile/joshgerstein.bsky.social/post/3lhtm6m5t5k2q

benfranklinsaid.bsky.social•12 days ago

More red states should have joined because they have human beings who also experience illness.

gueneuera.bsky.social•12 days ago

Yes, which research centers help to address by finding cures

pennysmoak.bsky.social•12 days ago

As would a public interest only based health outcomes study of, say, equity owned hospitals and insurance companies. Just sayin’

grnchristine.bsky.social•12 days ago

Yes!!!! So glad to see California ( Bonta ) is one of the 22 states,

patrickrcrotty.bsky.social•12 days ago

Great news!!

robesse.bsky.social•12 days ago

I’m a cancer patient and I personally know someone with cancer whose trial was just cancelled. People will die because of this sh*thousery. Maybe even me.

heather50.bsky.social•12 days ago

As it should bring law suits forth!

bierathebluehag.bsky.social•12 days ago

Even the State of Maine, oh my, Senator Susan Collins isn't going to like that. How did she get elected in Maine?

makingbetterworld.bsky.social•12 days ago

Aside from research slowing down, might tuition increases be another outcome? We don’t need that either. Or will elon be giving away millions of scholarships?

contraryschu.bsky.social•12 days ago

It will probably be happening somewhere, just not here. And maybe some place where average people will benefit from it

hborgesdasilva.bsky.social•12 days ago

Happy to see AZ signing this.

steffiineurope.bsky.social•12 days ago

https://t.co/NAKNABJtOD We are all in danger-all over the world !

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