I will say it again, if you genuinely couldn't find a trans woman to play this character then you should have cast a cis woman instead. Unless you think that being clocky is an important aspect of being believable, in which case take our names out of your mouth. - ThreadSky

ashleynova.space • 55 days ago

I will say it again, if you genuinely couldn't find a trans woman to play this character then you should have cast a cis woman instead. Unless you think that being clocky is an important aspect of being believable, in which case take our names out of your mouth.

Reposted from PinkNews

Squid Game creator explains why he felt it was important to feature a trans character in season two

Comments

fiversdream.bsky.social•55 days ago

Whoof. I'd heard about the character, not that she was played by a cis man. I did look up "trans South Korean actresses" and get all of three results so there is that, but the opportunity they could have *created* with this...

fiversdream.bsky.social•55 days ago

But also fully agree with you on the "cast a cis woman if you REALLY REALLY fucking couldn't for some reason" thing, sorry, realizing that only really responded to one part of it

jamienicwunderbar.bsky.social•55 days ago

also, they could have cast an expat korean trans actress

fiversdream.bsky.social•55 days ago

True! So so so many options that aren't "fuck it up the same way literally everyone fucks it up"

debeauvoir.me•55 days ago

They could cast an amateur actress, maybe it’s even a chance to find new talent. I don’t think there’s just 3 trans women in whole of South Korea lol

fiversdream.bsky.social•55 days ago

It's more a pretty quick and revealing snapshot of where they are in terms of this conversation - I'm remembering what it was like before OINTB and Pose

The main female lead in S1 was a COMPLETE unknown so they don't have any excuse

ashleynova.space•55 days ago

What really fucking annoys me is that I actually like the script and the character. I love that she's treated overwhelmingly respectfully, that she has agency around her decisions, that she's a fucking badass with a submachine gun.

But the casting is just BAD.

ashleynova.space•55 days ago

What I want to know is who did the English voice dub. Did they cast a woman for that or was it a man doing a somewhat convincing trans femme voice?

ashleynova.space•55 days ago

Apparently the English dub was done by a trans woman! Not that fucking hard, is it?

https://mxnickye.substack.com/p/squid-game-2-english-dub?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

desastertristan.bsky.social•55 days ago

Okay that actually rules, not that it fixes the terrible casting but good thing they actually employed a trans woman to voice act a trans woman.

sarahviktoria.bsky.social•55 days ago

"if you genuinely couldn't find a trans woman to play this character then you should have cast a cis woman instead"

I couldn't disagree more. In the past, it was most common for cis women to play trans women and this removes any challenge for the audience.

fallen-denpa-angel.bsky.social•55 days ago

why does a trans character have to be a "challenge"

sarahviktoria.bsky.social•55 days ago

Because challenging people about the condition of trans people is a moral duty in an era when trans people are being actively subjected to a hostile challenge by powerful institutions and nation states. More to the point, why must a trans character be made to appear safe and sanitised?

ashleynova.space•55 days ago

Having a man play a trans woman does nothing to challenge society's views of us. They all already think we are men. The challenging thing to do is say "this character is a woman and should be played by a woman."

fallen-denpa-angel.bsky.social•55 days ago

how is casting a cis man to play a trans woman challenging the perspective of powerful institutions and nation states who are attempting to define trans women as cis men

sarahviktoria.bsky.social•55 days ago

How is casting a cis woman to play a trans woman challenging the perspective of powerful institutions and nation states who are attempting to define women according to biology?

ashleynova.space•55 days ago

Because they don't think we are women.

sarahndipity.bsky.social•55 days ago

the point is that cis women and trans women are all just WOMEN.
why is that so hard for you to get through your thick skull?
using a cis MAN is offensive and ridiculous. the character is trying for bottom surgery, she's not a newbie, she has breasts and has been on HRT. she's not a man.

synfennex.bsky.social•55 days ago

The only challenge people need when it comes to us is allowing us to exist and making sure healthcare is available to all. We don't need people fighting over how clocky we should be on television.

sarahviktoria.bsky.social•55 days ago

Then let's have no surprises for cis people when they actually encounter a real trans woman. Representation should be about truth.

ashleynova.space•55 days ago

What do you mean by this? Why would having a cis woman play a trans woman character lead to "surprises for cis people"?

fallen-denpa-angel.bsky.social•55 days ago

why would that be a surprise? do you think men more accurately represent trans women than other women? if not, what do you mean?

synfennex.bsky.social•55 days ago

So for you, the only "real" trans women are clocky trans women, then? I would love for you to clarify this mess.

eva.codes•55 days ago

The Live-Action adaptation of Alice in Borderland had a trans woman character played by a cis woman iirc, and I don't think it lessens the writing.

Also there are many trans-passing cis women, especially with the increased narrowing of aesthetics women are subject to under modern gender police

synfennex.bsky.social•55 days ago

trans-passing cis women... This is my new phrase for the year. Thank you!

phantasm.bsky.social•55 days ago

This might be pessimistic but I think cis people fundamentally do not know (or care) about the difference between “trans woman” and “man in a wig” and therefore will never have a problem with this kind of casting and (some) will even continue to applaud it

ashleynova.space•55 days ago

Like, the script for this character implies that she's at least had a breast aug, so much have been on HRT for a while and was just trying to save up for bottom surgery, so it really doesn't make sense to cast a cis man who looks pre-medical transition.

phantasm.bsky.social•55 days ago

No, no it doesn’t! A consequence of trans people being systematically excluded from the public conversation about us is that most cis ppl don’t actually know anything about us (and they don’t care to learn or even admit their lack of knowledge) - I hate it here!

biblio111.bsky.social•55 days ago

Please believe that some of us do care. I truly thought the part was played by a trans woman. I'm disgusted that it wasn't....

debeauvoir.me•55 days ago

From an East Asian trans woman:

keravesque.bsky.social•54 days ago

At first I didn't find it believable that they could not find a trans actor, especially when searching trans South Korean actor came up with a trans woman right away, but then I noticed that person was one of only three people total on Wikipedia's list of South Korean actors that are trans women.

ashleynova.space•54 days ago

You know I've had a look at that same list of actors and you know what I noticed? They are all super cute and pass really well—maybe I am way too cynical, but I can see that as a reason they didn't get asked to play the role.

keravesque.bsky.social•54 days ago

Mm, that is a fair point. I guess I just figured they were too expensive or something since they are such a niche category and already famous, but that could definitely be it. 😿

ashleynova.space•54 days ago

Yeah, like, maybe they weren't available, or just didn't want to do it, or any number of other reasons.

But I am really having trouble getting past the idea that the producers wanted this character to be clocky for the audience.

keravesque.bsky.social•54 days ago

Additionally, she is also only the second person ever to have her gender changed legally in South Korea, which she did in 2002... So at least I guess they are probably not lying about it being difficult to find a trans actress in South Korea, for whatever that is worth.

quarkbee.bsky.social•55 days ago

Corrie (aka Coronation Street, the UK's longest running tv soap opera) cast a cis woman to play Hailey, a trans woman, *in the 1990s*. Hailey was a beloved character and a fixture on the show for SIXTEEN YEARS. My ninety year old granny loved her.

There are no excuses.

nbfiddlehead.bsky.social•54 days ago

Cried when she died.

sftoboston.bsky.social•55 days ago

It's called acting.

ashleynova.space•55 days ago

And men should not be acting as trans women. Period.

sftoboston.bsky.social•55 days ago

Liev Schreiber in Mixed Nuts was amazing but go on with your prejudices.

ashleynova.space•55 days ago

Trans women aren't men and shouldn't be portrayed by men. It reinforces stereotypes, dehumanises the characters, and paints an unrealistic picture of what trans women look, act or sound like.

sftoboston.bsky.social•55 days ago

You don't have to convince me that trans women are not men. I'm a parent to a trans girl. But our opinions differ when it comes to who can portray who is on screen.

ashleynova.space•55 days ago

Ok, well, you being a parent isn't quite the same as actually being trans myself, and knowing personally what the ramifications of having men portray us in film and TV can be.

Try actually listening to the community affected here.

ashleylynch.bsky.social•55 days ago

Cis people fucking up trans representation. Another day ending in Y.

uliterra.bsky.social•55 days ago

THEY CASTED A CIS MAN???????
WHAT THE FUCK

starshipsolidarity.bsky.social•55 days ago

i didn’t watch this show but if you genuinely can’t find a trans woman to play a character then the problem is you. either they weren’t really looking or they created such an offensive character trope that no actual trans person wants to go near it

sandalgalgenie.bsky.social•55 days ago

The character also seems to be based on a non binary person from the squid game challenge series. Kevin Nihn (flawlesskevin).

mogtheconfessor.bsky.social•55 days ago

It's not like it's hard. Coronation Street got this right 30 years ago!

sarahviktoria.bsky.social•55 days ago

Using a cis woman to play a M to F trans woman is a massive cop-out because it removes any challenge to the audience.

For playing a trans woman,

Trans actor > cis male actor > cis female actor

ashleynova.space•55 days ago

Fuck off with that shit. Having a man playing a trans woman is not challenging, it reinforces horrific stereotypes, and why the hell does a trans character's existence need to be challenging in the first place?

synfennex.bsky.social•55 days ago

No, it removes the challenge for the casting crew and production. For playing a trans character, get a trans actor. Full stop. Otherwise, why reinforce the stereotypes via a trope?

sarahviktoria.bsky.social•55 days ago

It's not possible to argue against a hypothetical. There was a hypothetical choice that was not of my making, of cis male versus cis female actor and I have stated a VERY good reason why it would be better to have the former.

ashleynova.space•55 days ago

You literally haven't done that though. At all. You've been asked multiple times to explain your point properly.

sarahviktoria.bsky.social•55 days ago

The trans women that the public need to learn to see as the women they are, will not have had the advantage of being born and growing up as a woman in the way that a cis woman has. For that reason a trans woman (best of all) or a male actor (second choice) would be preferable to a cis woman actor.

descriptivist.net•55 days ago

No. Absolutely not.

kinokocat.transsexual.gay•55 days ago

what the fuck are you talking about?

rommdan.bsky.social•55 days ago

I wouldn't trust korean men knowing the name and face of a trans woman nor a cis woman that plays that role, some crazy asshole would have made an atempt to her life

jdstarflower.bsky.social•55 days ago

This is absolutely the problem.
The people involved with the casting decisions really do think that being clocky is the point of having a trans character.
They don’t think their story will work if the audience doesn’t immediately clock that the character is trans.

ashleynova.space•55 days ago

Which doesn't hold water when you establish that the character is trans in their very first scene anyway. Literally the first time Hyun-Ju is on screen they have another character go "oh yeah she's trans people can do that now."

jdstarflower.bsky.social•55 days ago

Writers gotta drive that message deep, otherwise someone might miss it. 🙄

At some point creators are going to have to regain their faith in media literacy. Otherwise audiences are going to think they don’t need it for anything anymore.

nicole.ashley.kiwi•55 days ago

Well see

The bigwigs at Netflix wanted to make sure you knew she was trans even if you were looking at your phone instead of the TV screen

Or making pasta in the next room

saprinti.bsky.social•55 days ago

It's literally that.
https://www.worldofreel.com/blog/2024/12/27/netflix-tells-writers-to-have-characters-announce-what-theyre-doing-just-in-case-viewer-is-busy-doing-something-else

nicole.ashley.kiwi•55 days ago

Yep, that's what I was referring to.

alexandranathema.bsky.social•55 days ago

I am so fucking pissed, and the tide of knuckle-dragging apologists with their "bUt shE's pRE-op" can go fucking sit and spin.

Last I checked most GAS doesn't involve a complete facial reconstruction.

yasuko.bsky.social•55 days ago

Just another reason to not watch Squid Game for me. Damn. Just another case of the cissies people showing their asses.

Comments

Posting Rules

Reply