Funny how no one ever says 9 when you ask this question of normal people, as opposed to asking musicologists. - ThreadSky

violanorth.bsky.social • 30 days ago

Funny how no one ever says 9 when you ask this question of normal people, as opposed to asking musicologists.

Which of Beethoven's symphonies is your favorite?

(Note: I didn't ask you what the best one was. I asked you for your favorite.)

Comments

wetropolitan.bsky.social•29 days ago

I hate 9 with all of my heart because I am a soprano 😹

violanorth.bsky.social•29 days ago

And also a woman of taste.

wetropolitan.bsky.social•29 days ago

Sometimes. But first and foremost, I don’t want to sing page after page of tied high As lollll

kaimai.bsky.social•30 days ago

i like the last movement of 9! not too sure about the rest of them though

violanorth.bsky.social•30 days ago

I mean, this is the issue with 9, right? When people say they love it, they're usually thinking only of the finale.

kaimai.bsky.social•30 days ago

yes, basically. i’m not sure if it’s the “best part” but there’s a reason everyone remembers it; it has the pacing, drama and form of an operatic finale out of mozart or rossini, if you set aside the text completely, which most people do

kaimai.bsky.social•30 days ago

you could in theory even stage it with the various soloists entering and exiting, ballet dancers during the instrumental
segments etc

violanorth.bsky.social•30 days ago

Oh god you made it worse

violanorth.bsky.social•30 days ago

Yes, correct.

violanorth.bsky.social•30 days ago

[whispers] (it's because 9 isn't actually very good)

vincempls.bsky.social•30 days ago

This is the right take

ericprindle.bsky.social•30 days ago

I mean, any time I've ever heard it played, about 50 minutes in, some guy gets up and starts loudly complaining about how bad it sounds … in German for some reason.

heatherwinters.bsky.social•30 days ago

It’s still good, it’s just not my fave.

jjarchitect.bsky.social•30 days ago

I like 9 because as a child I had an obsession with A Clockwork Orange

violanorth.bsky.social•30 days ago

You were watching A Clockwork Orange as a child?

jjarchitect.bsky.social•30 days ago

Also I had an older brother so it was hard to escape when he had the tv on and he wanted to watch things.

jjarchitect.bsky.social•30 days ago

My dad had no qualms of showing us the cinema he considered great. Hence why we also watched Midnight Cowboy as kids.

violanorth.bsky.social•30 days ago

I can see how that would mess up your symphonic taste levels.

kyradavies.com•30 days ago

9 is mine!! But (I almost put this in the thread) I wonder if it's because I've played 9 the least of any of them. 7 used to be my fave, until I played it too much and needed a break

violanorth.bsky.social•30 days ago

Yeah, I think 7 is probably objectively the best one, and definitely the one I would play for someone who'd never heard a Beethoven symphony before. But like you, I've played it probably 30 times, so I enjoy 4 more at this point.

lauriestras.bsky.social•30 days ago

Heh. I was scrolling down, looking for 7 (best IMHO) and 4 (which was my youth-orchestra-viola favourite to play). 9 is forever redeemed for me by a (literal) sock-puppet performance of the Ode to Joy at a German friend’s wedding.

mdgood.bsky.social•30 days ago

When they put the lights down in the choral terrace for the first 3 movements, the 3rd movement was best for nap time.

violanorth.bsky.social•30 days ago

That's the one really good one of the four!

mdgood.bsky.social•30 days ago

To each their own. I‘m partial to the 2nd but that might be all the nights with my parents watching Huntley-Brinkley as a kid. And/or MTT’s tempo choices?

violanorth.bsky.social•30 days ago

The second is fine but he didn't need the second trio and third repetition of the scherzo theme.

pdutill.bsky.social•30 days ago

Do you think this is a violist-specific opinion? I (a violist) do not care for it, tbh.

violanorth.bsky.social•30 days ago

Nah, singers agree.

gwbrown.bsky.social•30 days ago

sung it too many times and have scars

eyesack.bsky.social•30 days ago

9 is simply too long and inspired way too many people to write other too long symphonies

violanorth.bsky.social•30 days ago

Exactly.

juddgreenstein.bsky.social•30 days ago

there have definitely been times in my life when the answer was 9.

violanorth.bsky.social•30 days ago

Yeah, but, like. Not the *good* times.

juddgreenstein.bsky.social•30 days ago

I almost answered 9 when I saw this prompt and then realized I haven't heard a Beethoven Symphony in probably a good decade

violanorth.bsky.social•30 days ago

You should throw 4 on the ol' record player. It's phenomenal.

juddgreenstein.bsky.social•30 days ago

4 was my other answer. I could not agree more.

violanorth.bsky.social•30 days ago

I was trying to find the full ranking I did like a year ago on here but it's unsearchable, so I'll probably be somewhat inconsistent here, but for me it goes 4, 7, 6, 5, 8, 2, 3, 9, 1.

greyson.bsky.social•30 days ago

🤣

outoffachs.bsky.social•30 days ago

I finally sang on a 9th a couple summers ago and walked away from hearing the full symphony multiple times like that thinking, “it’s not great, huh”

violanorth.bsky.social•30 days ago

Yeah, that's the thing. Everyone just thinks of the choral part, or maybe the scherzo, and most people forget how weirdly disjointed the full piece is. Also, most boring Beethoven first movement ever?

lisairontongue.bsky.social•30 days ago

The scherzo IS great and was the theme for... Huntley and Brinkley? In the 60s? And thus formative for some of us.

frindley.bsky.social•30 days ago

In Australia, the ABC runs an annual "Classic 100" survey, which ostensibly reflects the preferences of normal (radio-listening) people. Beethoven 9 routinely turns up in the top 5 of various categories…

frindley.bsky.social•30 days ago

Beeth Ninth was 3rd in Classic 100 Original, 2nd in C100 Symphony (after New World), 1st in C100 Ten Years On, 1st in C100 Voice, 1st in C100 Beeth, 2nd in C100 Music You Can't Live Without, 1st in C100 Feel Good. That said, I'm sure many votes are for the Ode to Joy rather than the symphony proper

violanorth.bsky.social•30 days ago

Presumably. Also important to keep in mind that most people who listen to classical radio can't name more than 3-5 specific pieces, they just like the overall vibe. Most listeners aren't trying to remember 70 composers' 3rd symphony or whatever.

frindley.bsky.social•30 days ago

Very true. Although the self-selecting audience that votes in the ABC's Classic 100 can be surprisingly well-informed (usually they can nominate works, they're not just choosing from a list) and the long tail of these surveys is where it gets really interesting.

frindley.bsky.social•30 days ago

I sometimes participate just to be perverse. For instance, with Classic 100 Feel Good, I nominated a piece that feels really good to play (under the hands): Couperin's Les Barricades Mystérieuses. Of course, what they actually wanted was "feel-good" music. And I was kinda surprised that Beeth 9 won.

musicalassumptions.bsky.social•30 days ago

I’m right with you on the Couperin! What a wonderful piece to play AND listen to.

frindley.bsky.social•30 days ago

In Classic 100 Symphony the top 5 included Beeth 9, 6 and 7, in that order; in C100 Beethoven it was Beeth 9, 6, 7, 5 (with Pno Cto 5 in 2nd spot)

prestontowers.bsky.social•30 days ago

Glad to see how many have said 4. I always thought it was underrated

violanorth.bsky.social•30 days ago

So underrated.

geshtin.bsky.social•30 days ago

I'm so glad that the 4th is seeing some love this time around. Last time I happened onto a fave Beethoven thread I was the only one enthusiastic about the 4th. :D

swellsort.bsky.social•30 days ago

7 is my fav, but 5 is up there too

corybee.bsky.social•30 days ago

Because 9 sucks

linernotesdanny.bsky.social•30 days ago

Neither a normal person nor a musicologist, I love the 9th

frindley.bsky.social•30 days ago

Also neither a normal person nor a musicologist (I write and speak about music for normal people). I love No.7 and [shh] I really don't need to hear No.9 ever again.

ceciliamadden.bsky.social•30 days ago

Has to be 7!!!!!

violanorth.bsky.social•30 days ago

7 is great. 4 is my favorite, but nothing but love for 7.

musicologyduck.bsky.social•30 days ago

i have oft been asked to "just grab a short clip of beethoven 9 for social" and being unable to do so effectively, have decided this is all largely based on arrangements of ode to joy and not even the real symphony lol

violanorth.bsky.social•30 days ago

That seems likely.

imanimosley.bsky.social•30 days ago

which musicologists are saying 9???

violanorth.bsky.social•30 days ago

The ones who insist that everyone worship at the altar of it because it "changed the game" or whatever nonsense?

juddgreenstein.bsky.social•30 days ago

if by "changed the game" they mean "led to the excesses of 19th century symphonic final movements" then they are 100% correct

violanorth.bsky.social•30 days ago

juddgreenstein.bsky.social•30 days ago

I mean, you could put a lot of heads on that bobble, if this is the game we're playing

violanorth.bsky.social•30 days ago

Yes, but he is the poster child of wretched excess.

frindley.bsky.social•30 days ago

But does that make it the musicologists’ _favourite_? Or just the one they recognise as a game-changer?

violanorth.bsky.social•30 days ago

No idea, but it definitely made it the one I had to hear about ad nauseum in college.

frindley.bsky.social•30 days ago

In my experience, eavesdropping on audiences, paying attention to surveys, etc., musicians (including musicologists) tend not to nominate Beeth 9 as a favourite, but it definitely appears to be an audience favourite, and it sells tix. Of course, a factor there is the chorus family/friends element.

medievaliste.bsky.social•30 days ago

not to white knight for musicology but I feel like that’s music theorists

violanorth.bsky.social•30 days ago

I'm never really sure which is which 😬

abarna.bsky.social•30 days ago

Whoa whoa I’ve never heard any music academic fuddy duddy say 9! We have bad opinions about plenty of other stuff

medievaliste.bsky.social•30 days ago

ouch

imanimosley.bsky.social•30 days ago

oh. i don’t know them 🤣

thisisbenphelps.bsky.social•30 days ago

Look, the pendulum has swung too far here. The 9th is in fact good.

violanorth.bsky.social•30 days ago

It's a mess. It's still Beethoven, so we're grading on a substantial curve here, but it's the Godfather 3 of Beethoven symphonies.

greyson.bsky.social•30 days ago

Ooh, but that mvt IV bass recitative…

violanorth.bsky.social•30 days ago

Gotta admit I'm not a huge fan of that recitative, or most of the 4th movement. I do think it has a great ending, but the rest of it feels wildly disjointed and awkward to me.

mollyjeffery.bsky.social•30 days ago

At a forensic science conference, a presenter played a German recording of the choral movement from just after the Wall fell.
And my kid played it in a joint concert of elementary through high school orchestras (all playing together). Both really amazing.

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