Lying liars and the lies that they told.
There is no question that the leave campaign lied through its teeth.
Legally, that means nothing now, of course: Brexit is settled under European law.
But is there a moral case to say the British electorate were innocent? Let's look at the lies
A 🧵
There is no question that the leave campaign lied through its teeth.
Legally, that means nothing now, of course: Brexit is settled under European law.
But is there a moral case to say the British electorate were innocent? Let's look at the lies
A 🧵
Comments
While at the same time everything would.
Britons would have the same access in terms of trade and free movement as before.
The European foreigners would not.
What type of people would believe foreigners would be so stupid?
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Essentially, this is the core of what Brexit is: rights without responsibilites.
Britons keep their rights, and the Europeans pay.
Would even a child believe something like that?
3
Okay, what's the difference between a coach and a bus (apart from the fact Londoners can't pronounce the latter)?
First we have UNECE and also 2007/46/EC which cover vehicle type approval
In UK legislation beyond type approval and vehicle certification we have Road Vehicles (Construction & Use) Regulations, the RTA 1988 and other seat belt regulations plus the PSVAR 2000 1/
A Coach is a PSV that is certified to carry only seated passengers with seatbelts
What was the implication of that lie, and what sort of person would be happy with Europe but swayed by pictures of people darker than themselves?
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Indeed. This one was quite pointed. For many, both for voters and in the Westminster, it meant the expulsion of foreigners, as was made clear by the UK parliament.
Yes, they lied. The Europeans could stay thanks to pressure from Bxl.
5
What kind of people believe you can throw out foreigners but have no consequences to travel and visiting their countries?
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The truth is that it played to their prejudices.
They *wanted* to believe it
United Kingdom🇬🇧 net migration 2023 was 728,000 under #Brexit
France 🇲🇫🇪🇺 net migration 2023 in the EU and Schengen Zone was 183,000
Britain is better off in EU!! Nearly 4 times more net migration into UK.
Psst!!! Someone tell #Farage !!!
I was *almost* persuaded to vote Leave.
Then I saw that and thought: “These are very bad guys”.
Or the audacity of Johnson. Flying to Turkey as the British Foreign Secretary after the referendum and declaring there that the UK now would support Turkey joining the EU.
A lot of people believed this because they don't know how govt finance works.
Neither of them are in good health and they are dependent on the NHS.
Thankfully they were lies.
https://bsky.app/profile/castrogacio.bsky.social/post/3lhqcbasgc227
It would be really informative to know why they didn't bother, and do they now have different opinions.
They clearly weren't won over by the Leave lies and unicorns, but Remain failed to make a coherent case either.
Brexit voters believed obvious lies legitimising racism and hatred purely in the hope they'd get rich at someone else's expense. That's stupid and evil.
I have no sympathy for them.
But I know decent educated folk who were alarmed by ever-closer-union and corresponding loss of identity, so voted Leave.
Scotland teeters in the bring if leaving the Union. Though they would then have to declare A49.
NI we’ve talked a lot about. Brexit makes Reunification inevitable.
I know kids in St Austell who have never seen the sea.
Like Kiss me I'm Irish?
I hope that it happens. Is it likely…who knows.
Plus which, if Trump wrecks NATO and Europe must look to her own defence, four Trident boats won’t go amiss.
This reminded me of a campaign group in the years in the immediate aftermath of EURef2016 called "RemainerNow", of regretful Leave voters, some of whom regretted their vote immediately after casting it, and who hopefully voted more wisely in GE2017 and GE2019. 1/n
I know someone who voted for Brexit because there were too many Somalis in the road next to hers.🤦♂️
Being conned into thinking that they could get away with it doesn’t mean that their intentions wasn’t evil.
Steve Bannon who did Breitbart News also heavily involved. It was about escaping the regulatory orbit of EU so that Libertarian extreme Capitalists can rape the UK via numerous SEZs and Freeports. Labour have bought into it as the vehicle for growth while we turn back on EU.
But too many people are looking to find a quick fix rather than dealing with the issue. That's my point here. The lies are not material to any current argument, moral or legal.
And secretly I hope you get to stick it to the Brexiters.
Unfortunately, ignorance, prejudice, small-minded nationalism, and exceptionalism are too ingrained in too many, for there to be any quick and easy way out.
Plus, too many who realize this, still fail to take up the fight to make improvements, e.g., in media rules, to enable real change.
However that message is damaged by relentlessly blaming the entire population here. The message would be way more potent without that.
1.For Cameron’s promise of a referendum
2. The Referendum
3. May’s Brexit means Brexit
4.Johnson’s Get Brexit Done
5. Starmer’s Lets Make Brexit Work.
Cut your denial nonsense FFS.
2019 was particularly egregious, as under PR they made Faragists the largest party. A shame.
(...which I tried to discuss with my politically interested friends in England. But like British massmedia, they just shrugged.)
But Faragists got one million more votes in 2019.
Until England adopts PR the malaise will continue.
Jezza fucking loved it.
Their idiocy was compounded by the corrupt, venal oaf Johnson.
He got an 80 seat majority.
The EU can’t deal with individuals in accordance with what they might have voted in an advisory referendum.
What individuals can do is to work towards the complete reform of the UK so that it might actually belong in the EU…
It may not be what YOU voted for, but you are still bound by and responsible for them.
No SM, no CU. Not even in the long term.
And yeah, I ended up disgusted enough by it to emigrate.
I'll retweet/post it.
It also important for the Scottish independence movement that we stick to facts even if it's sometimes uncomfortable.
Thanks again!
Tbh: you've provided me with invaluable info: e.g. the Euro. Originally I also thought we could avoid the Euro( just to get it over the line) and I accepted the excuses (Denmark etc) as o.k.
Your posts upgraded my knowledge.
17M voted Leave. That is not even half the total electorate.
Those who didn't vote because they didn't know the answer to the question did the right thing, what voters should do in a Referendum.
The electorate also decided that Johnson's hard Brexit was infinitely better than Corbyn.
How come the winning side never says : "Oh gosh ! Look, lots of people didn't vote. That's so unfair, we'll have to rerun the election." ?
I have seen this opinion from Swiss nationals who hold a lot of Referenda. It's a mantra that if you don't know what to vote for, don't vote.
Every person who assisted Johnson in getting his, ultra loyal, majority in 2019 got exactly the Brexit they were voting for that day.
Here's the difference between Corbyn and Brexit.
Corbyn would already have been removed from No 10.
Even then, it is presumptuous to think that a 2nd referendum would have thrown Brexit out.
Meanwhile he got a lot of votes from ppl who would normally vote LD in seats that were safe conservative.
Ppl wanted the conservatives out in Burgess Hill, but they wouldn't listen to ppl like me
(And it was seven national elections in total, so they could have corrected their mistake)
It's very hard to convince ppl to vote differently to the way they habitually vote.
It was the wrong thing to do and maybe complacency that most ppl would vote Remain.
I have also heard the opinion from some that they felt their vote would be cancelled out by someone who was a Leaver who they knew was choosing not to vote.
Ppl behave like this when they don't think their vote matters.
What all this moaning and wringing of hands constantly comes down to is that Remain failed to convince people the EU was in their interests.
They had no answers to the Leave campaign and its unicorns.
Yet the answers are, now, self evident. Too late, but.
So in that sense, people's votes did not count.
“Do you not support disagreement with the following statement ….”
Would sort the nay-sayers from the say-nay nay sayers ….
All responses were not equally valid.
If the EU were only a matter of economics, I would agree.
But the political aspects didn't go down well in England.
EU-army, Ever Closer Union, judicial oversight from a common European Court of Justice, etc, were themes that rubbed nationalists the wrong way.
And 1975 was a precedent.
A combination of:
Corrupt fuckers and enemies of EU whose aims were achieved by leave
Large % of electorate who are stupid, xenophobic, anti-EU, exceptionalists
Spineless useless politicians
Oligarch MSM
If Brexit is not recognized as such, sincerity will never be au rendez-vous.
There’s a national work to be made, in order to analyze and set the different responsibilities.
Sometimes, the future depends on understanding what happened.
It’s far from being done in 🇬🇧…
How likely is that? I dealt with signed documents all the time when working in insurance and never came across any genuine concerns wrt signatures.
Note that voter fraud in UK elections is very rare.
"How are you voting?"
"Leave."
"Why?"
"Get the foreigners out."
"What about your son-in-law?"
"Oh, not him. He's one of the nice ones."
"Surely there will be an exception for the people who serve _my_ needs, or for _my_ family as we drive those filthy foreigners out of God's own country!"
No, buddy, there won't be.
They also need to make a positive case as to why we in the EU should allow them back (entitlement/exceptionalism will be grounds for immediate disqualification).
The UK also needs to qualify. That will be difficult enough.
1 the very wealthy business person wanting a reduction in consumer and worker rights, to make even more profits
2 the racist
3 the village idiot
All of the liars lied to feather their own nests, at the expense of the nation.
I will never forgive them. Ever.
If you’re not sure you don’t do anything without checking!
Blindly following anyone/thing does not make you a thinking individual. It makes you subservient!
1/2
That doesn't change the fact that some of my best friends are remainers and good Europeans who I'm proud of
There are, however, big questions coming up for the EU, including how to justify not expelling Hungary.
A Member State may be suspended by qualified majority vote under Article 7 of the EU Treaty. There is no mechanism for expulsion, but neither is there a time limit for suspension.
Anyway, the conditions under art 7 are not yet met.
They don’t.
Improve our electoral systems to achieve more democratic outcomes. FPTP is rigged and moronic
Make better electoral choices. Two cheeks of same arse duopoly is rigged and moronic
Improve engagement and ability of our electorate
We need all 3 imho & only UK can sort it
Not to mention the bogus tangled thinking caused, like in those justifying FPTP b/c it "keeps the extremists out".
Nope, it just causes them to hide.
We're many who have done so, you should join us. We have cookies.
Compare w/ NL, where Wilders(?) could rule supreme in FPTP, but instead checked by other parties.
Journalists asked people "what if your children lose their job as a result of Brexit?" Don't care, they reply.
They're resorting to using "vaccinated" as a pejorative.
We want to get out in order to get out and when we're out it'll be better becusse we're out.
Leaders do.
Once you understand that; the rest is obvious: Food taboo? Marriage rules? Sexual “rules”? Racism? The shared fantasy they call “religion”?
It’s all and ONLY about controlling a flock of sheep they can prey upon.
Leave appealed to the uneducated, the news-avoiders, the hard-of-thinking. I don't forgive them, but I'm not convinced intelligence = moral superiority.
But half the population by definition have an IQ below 100. *Most* people don't read analysis or bother to watch in-depth news/discussions.
I seriously don't know to what extent it is possible to *blame* people for just being thick. Arguably that's how it started.
I agree about EU citizens here - and long-term Brits abroad. Both groups would have had more sense than to Quit.
Because nobody told us. Not UKG, not our MEPs.
Turnout for the MEP elections was typically 30%.
Instead we got tabloids saying “Up yours, Delors!” day in day out year after year and nobody challenged that narrative so it became believed.
She sneered when I contradicted her claims.
Big donations from Russians, Friends of Russia Symonds, Lebedevs, bunga bunga Boris party, without security, straight from NATO mtg & still we aren’t allowed to see the unredacted Russia report so none of the above repudiated.
Ask who profits from Brexit.
I'm thinking a European army, funded by a massive wealthy bloc, pooled from a population of +500m, under a single command structure would be a good thing right now.
Me, in your country - a resident by feeling, my lifestyle sufficient
You, in my country - a goddamn immigrant, beg for permission to reside
Me, an *expat* in your country...etc
Cameron and Parliament’s duty was to not put an issue like this to the country to decide via referendum. Their duty is to lead and do what’s best for the country ahead of best for party or themselves. They chose the latter of course. Traitors in my book