realized while emptying the dishwasher that Yoda is precisely wrong. not malevolently so. but there is no do and there is no do not. there is only try. this is clear to a man in his mid-fifties and so should be clear to a 900-year-old Jedi knight
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The difference in each person's situation demonstrates the truth of each lesson. Andor is being told, even if you don't think you'll win, fight on. Luke is being told that if he doesn't have faith in the power that surrounds him he will not be able to see the power that he has. One is about carrying
on in the face of overwhelming external enemies. The other is about reaching the trust, the belief, the humility needed to see and understand the world for what it is. They're each critically important and complimentary lessons.
Consider, idk, stepping in to a batting cage. Luke is a whiny shit and
says "Okay, I'll try to hit the ball." He takes a few sings then gives up, frustrated. It's impossible! He doesn't believe, he doesn't trust, he doesn't have faith. His attitude was not that the thing could be done or could not be done, it's that he'd give it a try without commitment. To become a
great batter you have to step in to the cage and swing until your shoulders are sore. then you have to rest and heal correctly to protect your shoulders from damage. Then you have to get back in to the cage. Again and again, over and over, until you attain mastery. If you only try, not believing tha
t it's even possible, you will never cultivate the discipline necessary to unlearn your understanding of the world and build a new, more correct understanding that is required for mastery. Note that Luke "tried" only for a moment. He didn't spend days or weeks poking and prodding at the ship. He did
I take your point. However, when I hear someone say “I’ll TRY” in that tone of voice that means not only are they NOT going to try, they’re going to ask me to bring them a cold beer, I like Yoda’s version better. That and a nice baseball bat.
He's talking about faith in the force. You've got it or you don't. To use the force Luke has to really believe and experience himself as a part of the whole universe. He can't lift the spaceship if he and the spaceship are two separate things. He has to be the Luke, and be the spaceship, and be the
entire world. And to do that he has to let go of his doubts, his fear. The light side cannot be found in fear. He has to have trust, he has to have faith. If he tries, if he's still afraid, if he still doubts, he can't do it.
iney, doubting Yoda, doubting himself, doubting the power the force, which is to say *his* power in the Force. With that mind he cannot, as Yoda says, accomplish his goal. What he has to unlearn is the barrier between himself and the world, between himself and the life and matter around him. Moments
later Yoda gives him an object lesson, showing him that through the force, through trust in the force, Yoda can cause the space ship to lift from the swamp waters and come to rest on dry land. A seemingly impossible act, accomplished not with muscles or repulsors but through surrendering one's self
to the the force that permeates the entire universe. At this point it's the most dramatic expression of what is possible through the force that Luke has seen. Up til now it's only been visions and preternatural reflexes. This is an awakening moment for him. It also parallels Vader's actions later on
Yoda gently lifts the ship from the water in order to both educate Luke about the true nature of the world and to assist him in getting his ship running again. Later Vader tears chunks of metal from the walls to injure and terrify Luke. It shows the same action - Moving matter, used from each side
What if there is no try or do, but just be? I mean…we’re human BEINGS, not human doings or tryings. I think we took a wrong turn somewhere WAY BACK.
Honestly just hoping for an invite to the party when the wolf comes home.
Yeah that was kinda of an L take for Yoda. Sounds like some crap nonsense advice from a self proclaimed self-help guru that sounds cool and wise until you think about it for more then a second.
Yoda's point was that if you focus on whether or not you think you can do something rather than on just giving it your best attempt, you're setting yourself up to fail. And I have to agree with him on that.
tbh i always interpreted the line as saying "to try is to do—in the act of trying to do something, you are doing that thing. adding the proxy word only discredits your efforts, like turning in an essay and apologizing to the teacher for writing a bad essay."
For an individual, this is true. For the outside world only affected by the outcome, the options are do or do not. Yoda is trying to impress the seriousness of the situation on him, and that it's not enough to try, he has to actually defeat the Empire.
To me Yoda was just past midlife, not really interested in taking on another student, and while he cared for Luke he was also intensely annoyed by him, so the little axioms were a compromise that let him troll the kid a bit and shut him up for a few minutes so he didn't snap and hurl him into a sun.
Yoda is a stock character from Wuxia movies and similar stories. He rejects the hero to make the hero prove his commitment, then teases and torments the hero to put him off balance and break down his sense of the world. Once that is complete he shows his true face and the teaching begins.
If Luke had landed in front of a marble palace, greeted by a warrior in shining armor, he could never have found the humility he needed to reach the force. Only a nasty old frog in a swamp could show him that a great Jedi is a humble man, not a mighty warrior.
The man communes with the force, is gifted with telekinetic, and universe-spanning precognitive powers...
I mean, for him (and by extension Luke Skywalker), it really might be "Do or do not." Just commit - execution - success, and who's going to second-guess them but another space wizard?
Maybe, if there was a Yoda, by the time he hit 900 he would understand that mostly he would “do not” and only spend his time on what little he could “do”. If there was any “try” about it, he would save his energy and “try not”.
When you bring intentionality into it, you are right. But when Yoda pinpoints that not fully committing to an action might predetermine the outcome to fail, also right he is.
Yoda-speak syntax is identical to Japanese. "Do or do not" was essentially Japanese Army doctrine in WWII. Surrender in the face of insurmountable odds was not allowed, regardless of how futile to resist.
I feel like you’re swinging for a topical joke here but I assure you, Yoda prefers the more practical psilocybin high. Much better for maneuvering through a swamp, in my experience lol
There’s a scene in STAR WARS REBELS where master and apprentice try to puzzle out Yoda’s teaching. As I understand the episode—it’s elliptic!—the master realizes that when he says “I’ll try to train you” he’s giving himself permission to fail. So he needs to just say “I’ll train you. You’ll learn.”
I also think Yoda's wrong about there being a Light Side and a Dark Side of the Force, I think this is a phenomenon of consciousness, not an ontological quality of the Force itself
I once had a therapist tell me to "try" to pick up a pillow next to me. This is the quandary of "trying": if you can, do it; if you can't, pass the task to someone stronger. Or join a group that can.
Misunderstand, you do, what Yoda said. Only two results, there were. Try, Luke did, but either do, or do not, did he. So long as satisfied was he with try, do, he could not. Believe he could, he did not. Only when past try did he look, could he do.
In plain English as long as Luke's outlook was "I'm going to try" he would fail, that outlook was an inevitable "do not." He had to have the attitude "I will do" in order to succeed. Its about his outlook rather than the literal action.
Nah, he’s just trying to get Luke to believe in himself enough to get into the flow state needed to use the Force. It’s like when you’re bowling and instead of worrying about HOW you make the strike, you visualize doing it. Helpful for overthinkers, which Luke was.
I have always hated that saying. Some of the best stories and legends are about people failing to do some awesome thing and it's not because they didn't try.
The “no attachments” rule was put in place by the guy in charge of the Jedi when Yoda started, and he keep it in place with an iron will because it was tradition.
Bad idea becomes dogma and ends up destroying the order because it could not evolve.
He lived 900 years and never wrote even one song good enough to be on The Sunset Tree. I think it's pretty obvious he isn't as wise and he made himself out to be.
Yoda was right when he said only the Sith deal in absolutes. The Jedi are Sith. The Sith are Jedi. It has always been so, since the founding. They are one order locked in civil war, both with a flawed understanding of themselves, each other and the force.
It turns out they are all the bad guys! The Republic isn't all sunshine and rainbows, and the Jedi literally created the sith by exiling members after a civil war, before the creation of the Republic. The Jedi do all sorts of dumb and fucked up shit.
This myth needs to die. Yoda was not being LITERAL. Luke's attitude was crap and Yoda was pointing out that you either get behind the task or walk away. Half-assed is no way to approach a problem.
I have been saying this since 1980 because I understood.
That's such an important path to unfuck one's mental health, too. "Perfect is the enemy of done". Any effort, no matter how little, is better than none.
I was having this EXACT conversation with the person I love most in this world just the other day, I thin kI came to the conclusion that the Old Dude was not good at improv and probably lousy in bed
Agreed. It’s bad advice. Sometimes you have to try to do the right thing even if you believe your chances of success are slim. To some extent, success is out of your hands anyway. What matters is that you try.
Star Wars Rebels already addressed this. How can I do something if I don't try to do it? The attempt matters. I get what he was trying to say, that if all you ever do is try but you never do, then you're not really trying. But you have to make the effort, and that's what trying is.
IMO there's room for it to apply to, like, intention/mental orientation to the work, to say "don't undertake a task without sincerely meaning to complete it" etc., but as you say with respect to practical action it has to flip, one should make a best attempt but not dwell on ultimate success/failure
Time is relative. There is do and there is don't. You are looking in the wrong dimension.
In the present, the only thing visible with a 3D PoV, there is only try, because humans keep guessing. (Please don't break that too early, still figuring out, what went wrong with the Vogons)
You'd think he had that nuance after failing to defeat Dooku but I guess that's how it goes when you have decades of living alone to beat yourself up about how you screwed everything up
Which sounds better:
A) enough trying will get a result, but you can’t just try once and quit.
B) Do or do not.
George Lucas is no Shakespeare, but it was a pretty good way to sum up that idea.
I feel like maybe that’s just the Jedi equivalent of drill sergeant screaming. Like Yoda knows, but in the middle of a training session is not the time to discuss the essential truth.
I disagree. When one of my clients says "I'll try", I put a pencil on the desk and tell them " try to pick up the pencil ". When they pick it up, I ask " did you try to pick up the pencil or did you pick it up? " Do or do not, there is no try.
Perhaps that sage old sprout meant you either commit to doing an act and do not stop trying until your try becomes a 'did', or don't even bother beginning you waffly waste of bantha fodder!
You have to remember that his experience with Luke up to this point is that he was so impatient he couldn't wait for the soup to be done, so he tossed out a few lies to direct him.
But he's a green goblin of a muppet so he can't just say "Just fucking do it, whiner."
Yeah, and Luke was only saved by his choice to destroy himself rather than give in, and his friend's deep connection that allowed Leia to find and rescue him. Ultimately his friends rescued themselves and had to rescue Luke. But, that experience is what granted him the connection to save his father.
The point of the lesson was to not try to do something while believing you will fail. It wasn’t supposed to be a universal truth, just a lesson that when you try to do a thing you need to believe it will work or don’t bother because you will definitely fail if that’s what you set out to do.
Not unlike the jump program in the matrix (no one makes the first jump). "You have to let it all go, Neo. Fear, doubt, and disbelief. Free your mind." never made that connection before... (Morpheus should have had a little stick though)
To a certain degree. You can’t accomplish anything without thinking you can. Doesn’t matter how big or small the task. They’re fantasy movies though so they’re big things to make sure it’s entertaining.
Lucas's prequels proved Yoda wrong, esp. compared to Abrams's The Force Awakens. Abrams just copied the originals to that movie. Lucas made ambitious flops w/ complicated themes: fall of democracy, bitterness over loss &c, that could have been AMAZING! He tried, & he failed. Abrams didn't even try.
I think the meaning is a bit misunderstood. Because to try is to do. It's action. Yoda simply helps us understand the truth, that it's all about your visualization of success. Do you have faith your action will lead to success? Then you ARE doing. If you give up before you win then you merely tried.
Agreed. Also, "Do not" is not a condemnation or necessarily a failure. It means you committed real effort and explored all your options before arriving at the conclusion that it is not possible. Luke made a little effort then immediately gave up. He did not "Do" or "Do not", he failed to determine
if lifting the ship was impossible. So, really, he did nothing, learned nothing, and achieved nothing because he lacked faith in himself, in his teacher, and in the force. A true seeker would have gotten a block and tackle and tried to muscle that fucker out using the force for mechanical advantage.
I think Yoda was talking more about Luke's mindset and the mindset of a Jedi that you've got to go in to a situation believing with certainty that you're going to succeed. "I'll try" shows you don't have faith in yourself. Especially the way Luke said it.
I finally understood this after my (at the time) 3yo kept telling me he couldn't sleep no matter how much he tried-his end effort was trying. All his effort went into trying to sleep, not into whatever the heck it takes to actually fall asleep. You're either falling asleep or not; there is no try
That's actually really insightful and true. I get what Yoda was trying to do, getting Luke to act with more confidence. But yeah, all you can really do in the end is try.
I always read it as your intention means very little when compared to your actions.
If you *try* to bring order to the republic, but what you *did* was install a murderous, theocratic fascist empire headed by a petty immortal space wizard, well, your intentions don't matter.
What people don't get is Yoda is saying success only comes through the Force when you confidently believe it will come. If you expect failure, you will get failure. If you don't believe success will happen, then it won't.
Not super related to OP, but I like that opening. In its universe it’s clear humans have traveled to a ton of different planets, so even as a kid I always figured the fun in “a long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away” is the likely implication that humans came here from the Star Wars planets
I think it’s related to the idea that our tv signals would travel out over time. That somewhere a star will start to receive the tv shows of the 40s then the 50s etc as those waves travel further and further.
Yoda's quote is based on the Buddhist idea that you can either act or not act. It is not a commentary on the level of effort or outcome. It is a commentary that the only choice in the moment of action is to do or do not. I am not saying it is right or wrong, just often misunderstood.
Look, I'll take The Mountain Goats as wise elder(s?) over Yoda any day. Yoda kinda sucks.
But in this case, Yoda said what Luke needed to hear. So I'm trying to understand how that can be, and what Yoda said can't *just* be the opposite of the truth.
I think, as with pretty much everything in the Jedi teachings, it’s about attitude.
If you go in thinking “I will do this” you are generally more likely to succeed than if you go in saying “I will try.”
“Whether you think you can, or think you can’t, you’re right.”
I think what Yoda was getting at is using "try" as an excuse for failure. Whiny young Luke doesn't really want to try so he wants to tell Yoda "sorry I did my best". Yoda is saying "no excuses, just do it or tell me you can't".
Yoda is talking about accellerated training to confront the biggest evil in the galaxy, where only results will matter in the showdown. All other jedi ‘tried’ but Luke must ‘do’.
I meeeeean. He was part of the Council that had a Sith Lord under their nose, allowed the order to become an arm of the military and had child soldiers.
I don’t even try unloading the dishwasher. I just use clean dishes from the dishwasher and then hand wash until the dishwasher is empty. There is no do nor try in this house
It should be noted that, before Yoda laid out the “there is no try” bit (in the series’ timeline), Obi-wan told Anakin that only the Sith deal in absolutes.
Yeah, he was making Luke practice things, which is trying. A lot. Repeatedly. Yoda could not have coached a toddler tee-ball team, never mind Jedi. I firmly believe Miss Frizzle could do it all, though.
Everything about Yoda’s views makes sense if you consider that he, as the top boss, doesn’t want to get attached to the mayflies that everyone else appears to be to him.
I have done many things. I've not accomplished every undertaking. I believe one must try, before one can ever hope to achieve, but that the belief that you *can* and maybe even *will* may be found useful for the spirit.
My approach is that this is not a general philosophy but a philosophy specific to jedi in use of the Force. When Yoda lifts the x-wing and Luke says "i don't believe it" Yoda says 'that is why you fail'. Trying implies that you have in mind that you might fail. Which we know is true but ...
... successful use of the Force requires a firm belief that you can do whatever you set out to do. Any self doubt is going to ruin your chance at completing the feat.
Has anyone ever considered that Yoda may be the one most responsible for the decline of the Jedi? His conservative clinging to the principals of the old order made him incapable of recognizing and dealing with the growing danger of Palpatine and Skywalker.
Doing not does not have to mean failure. Trying is the energy you concentrate on the doing. Such as being in motion or at rest the kinetic energy the trying. Choice is the road ahead.
Ummm, Yoda said “do or do not. There is no try.”because Luke said “I’ll try.” And trying is not good enough to harness the force. You either have the conviction to do it or you may as well not even bother.
this. How OP can completly miss the point of this scene is bewildering. Unless of course they get it and are being contrary cause they think they are cool. Then it's just sad.
Mace Windu reacts differently, calls out f'd-up repugnant behaviour as it is, and opens a cold can of whoop-ass when the situation escalates. Maybe that's also a try?
They shouldn't have brought back Palpatine, just make Yoda the secret real villain of the series and he mistreated Anakin knowing all that shit would happen because he's a prankster and wanted to mess everything up. The Bam Margera of Star Wars.
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Consider, idk, stepping in to a batting cage. Luke is a whiny shit and
- Yoda, Jedi boomer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQ4yd2W50No
Listen to the exchange again. Luke is wh
https://youtu.be/U9t-slLl30E?si=xnXiwqFr4yZbKj5-
🤔
Honestly just hoping for an invite to the party when the wolf comes home.
Yoda: "THIS! IS!! SPAARTAAAA!!!!!"
Start: do or do not, there is no try.
End: any progress is progress
I mean, not here kink shaming--there are just times it is not ideal to seek advice from somebody
Some are doing and humbly say they are trying.
Your line would’ve been beautiful in the prequels.
You still have made a choice.
I mean, for him (and by extension Luke Skywalker), it really might be "Do or do not." Just commit - execution - success, and who's going to second-guess them but another space wizard?
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/yodas-ketamine-addiction
Yoda didn't die of old age. It was the buildup of cognitive dissonance from 900 years of pop psychology that finished him. That's why he was tired.
I'm with Yoda on this one...
In “a galaxy far, far away”, you’re either Force sensitive or not, and if you don’t got the moves, you unfortunately don’t got the moves.
But don’t let that fictional restriction define you; in reality, YOU are The Force.
Trying is doing.
Damnit, Yoda's drunk again.
Speak like Yoda in long sentences, hard, it is.
His contribution to Luke was to give him a basic training course to get him just good enough to kill his dad.
Luke won by ignoring all of his about ignoring his friend and won the war Yoda skipped out on.
The “no attachments” rule was put in place by the guy in charge of the Jedi when Yoda started, and he keep it in place with an iron will because it was tradition.
Bad idea becomes dogma and ends up destroying the order because it could not evolve.
I have been saying this since 1980 because I understood.
Don't feel like working out? Do a light or partial one. Too depressed to brush and floss at night? Just brushing is better than nothing
Doing, even if it's the first time, must be done with complete commitment.
In the present, the only thing visible with a 3D PoV, there is only try, because humans keep guessing. (Please don't break that too early, still figuring out, what went wrong with the Vogons)
A) enough trying will get a result, but you can’t just try once and quit.
B) Do or do not.
George Lucas is no Shakespeare, but it was a pretty good way to sum up that idea.
You can’t always get what you want;
But if you try some time
You just might find
Yoda scolding you
Do, or do better, “trying” is just doing with room for improvement.
“Do not…” is like the number zero. It holds space for a potential action but holds no information about the event itself.
We need to talk with Oz.
But he's a green goblin of a muppet so he can't just say "Just fucking do it, whiner."
All part of guru doublespeak.
I mean, they were almost right. Took a hand chop on dad to get Luke to think "Ohhhh so that's what the cave vision meant."
He's not a clever guy.
You did not get it, and it's not like it's a very high brow statement
Patience leads to frustration, frustration leads to venting to avoid anger.
Because anger leads to...
Also, I don't honestly know if this account is real or not, but if so, fucking Bravo times 10 for the show at the Vogue in Indy last summer
If you *try* to bring order to the republic, but what you *did* was install a murderous, theocratic fascist empire headed by a petty immortal space wizard, well, your intentions don't matter.
But in past tense, there is only did or did not.
Yoda knows that Luke's whiny "I'm trying" is not really present tense, just the past tense of the future.
But in this case, Yoda said what Luke needed to hear. So I'm trying to understand how that can be, and what Yoda said can't *just* be the opposite of the truth.
If you go in thinking “I will do this” you are generally more likely to succeed than if you go in saying “I will try.”
“Whether you think you can, or think you can’t, you’re right.”
So yes, try....and try again.
There were flags. They were red.
And while trying is what you actually do, approaching it as if you will succeed can't hurt.
...unless it's shouldering a door or something.
You're right, in reality Yoda is full of shit. Dangerous even
(Or quit and do something else. Whatever)
"Take chances, make mistakes, and get messy."
"If at first you don't succeed, find out why."
Try is walking the road, wherever it leads.
It's his goddamn fault.
Yoda: "tried not having a problem, have you?"