As always, not a lawyer, but one thing that leaps out at me about how things are going down in the courts right now is that the US court system is not designed to be responsive to a crisis like this one. A crisis like this one is not what it's FOR.
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It’s not because the rulings are only as binding as the executive/“enforcement” branch’s respect for them. There is literally no way to make the court rulings impactful if the very people who are sanctioned are also the ones responsible for enforcing those sanctions.
Each branch has exclusive powers with some overlap with other branches. The Legislative branch has the power to craft bills & laws, and confirm agency nominations. They also can impeach. The judicial branch handles constitutional questions among other things. Schumer can’t reign in Trump by himself.
Whether the Dems in the Senate need new leadership is a separate question that can be handled at another time. Dems must act as a cohesive unit, but must carefully think about all ramifications of their collective action or inaction. (“We are Borg” ;-) )
Which is why “We, the People” have powers we can exercise.
1) peacefully protest en-masse
2) voice your complaints to Congress
3) help get Dems elected to overturn the House. There is a special election in Florida on April 1, 2025. Volunteer to reach out to voters:
Voting against the CR while pointing out that Dems were offering a truly clean one and it was only the GOP’s willingness to shut down the government over their pet issues was a better outcome. Sadly we didn’t have anyone in the Senate who was prepared to execute it.
As a lawyer, I agree to an extent. When the legislative branch is unable (or unwilling) to do its part to hold the executive branch accountable, that leaves the courts as the only option. Courts are capable of responding to a crisis, maybe even multiple crises. It’s the volume that is the problem.
Not a US lawyer, but I disagree. Courts may make decisions, but if the executive simply ignores them, or resorts to forcibly implementing its original plan, what to do? The rule of law is only a concept. For it to work, EVERYONE has to respect it.
The effectiveness of the federal judiciary is predicated on an independent DOJ. We don't have one of those. Plaintiffs and the courts should keep up the pressure (pressure is good), but the regime is going to continue to do whatever it wants.
There's nothing in any system for a crisis like this. We can hope but I think even if the judges fight the good fight, Congress will not stop Trump from running roughshod over the judiciary and Constitution. The media will continue its failures. Mass collective protest and action is our only hope.
I don't know how you design a system to be resistant to a situation where 2/3 branches are controlled by people acting maliciously and/or in bad faith...
At that point it feels like things are bound to fail. You can't build a system ran by people that is resistant to people not doing their jobs.
I can't think of anything either. If SCOTUS attempts to constrain the administration* and the administration listens, then "yay" we survive until whatever midterms turn out to be. The House will not impeach Trump before 2026.
*It'll be sparse and weak constraint. Never admitting failure.
I think you can. Get rid of gerrymandering. Strike down citizens United. Restrict PACS. Ranked choice voting. Essentially get the big money out of politics and make lawmakers work for their jobs. Might take a third-party.
I don't think that it is possible to make one that is impervious,... I don't know that I'm ready to commit to the idea that it can't be better than this.
I think more people need to realize that at the very least this stuff probably represents a mortal wound to this particular system.
Sounds reasonable. The trick is making sure to balance that with the chance that a malicious regime would push through charges against their opposition's leaders.
yes,we’re only going to reach that kind of critical mass when people are impacted, by not receiving services, losing civil rights, economic hardship, harm to safety/security. this is why i find myself rooting for this regime’s pain to be felt so that we can get to that https://pt.it feels so wrong that i do
Also, there is a peaceful gathering at state capitols on April 5th (Saturday). If large numbers can peacefully gather in Eastern Europe this past weekend, we certainly can do so. Be there, bring friends, and pass the message on.
@elienyc.bsky.social tried to warn white America... (I'd link to his "Allow Me to Retort" book site, but even DuckDuckGo is only interested in selling, not informing.)
I disagree, but in the sense that the court system needs to treat people with money and connections like it would treat ordinary people who do these things.
The law is fluid, but it is also glacial. That is the plan with Project 2025, Trump, Miller, and the toadies. They KNOW that the vast majority of what they are doing is unconstitutional or illegal. They also know that if you flood the zone with 100 such acts, a majority make it through.
Then judges themselves need to step up in this way. Take off the cloak of impartiality. Go on any media that will have you and declare "The courts were not made for this crisis and let mw tell you my fellow countryman this IS a crisis. Since GOP controlled Congress is complicit people need to be out
I always thought dems should have put in place a process to force certain issues with the executive branch to be expidted through fed court, including the supreme court.
Talking to European friends hits differently when the Constitution is was so proud of turns out to be just a bunch of traditions not backed by any force at all.
unfortunately, I think this is because if we don’t have mass resistance in response to the degradation of our political norms, then there is nothing enforcing them really.
If government doesn’t need the will of the people to exist, it will become corrupt fast
And that's really the crux of it - the system was explicitly designed to have three branches, each wary of the other and protective of their own power. It literally was not designed to handle political parties capable of capturing two or more branches at once and acting in concert.
ppl power is all that’s left. millions upon millions in the streets is the only way to go. not sure what event finally triggers it. if we get thru this, we need lots of new amendments, including a popular recall election.
This makes me think of Congress ceding authority to the Supreme Court in the 1850s, hoping for salvation from the slavery question. The result was Dred Scott and it made things irreparably worse.
So arrest people in defiance of the orders. The electorate will see that their actions are officially illegal.
Are you saying that if I defied an order, I'd still be freely walking around? They are not above the law.
They’re above the law until they aren’t.
Trump gets away with it until he has real, actual consequences for malfeasance.
Lone people trying to do anything about it are shoveling in a blizzard. No groups (court, police, army, the people) have jailed him, and made it stick.
I mean, arrest the people carrying out the illegal actions. They are in defiance of the orders. Soon, he'll lose allies, and people will think twice about what they're willing to do for him.
At least it will create some resistance.
No system is. Americans are running from their responsibility as citizens by not overthrowing him. The fact that the politicians think so little of the public that they dare to do this is almost as shocking as the fact that they are right in their assessment.
It’s going to take elected leaders (local, state, and federal) to stand up for justice. Address how unconstitutional this administration has been to the point of high treason and advise to impeach. Not because of party opposition but of the integrity of upholding the sovereignty of the Constitution.
While your statement is true (courts are slow and deliberate) the rules allow a litigant to seek a temporary restraining order (at first without notifying the other side). Most of the cases you are reading about are seeking such injunctive relief.
Agree and disagree. We don't want justices to remove presidents just because they would like to. If the people choose someone to be president, they are not there to save the people who made the bad choice. The same with the military. Our military opposed the invasion of Iraq. They obeyed.
I think it is responding quite well and much better than expected. Without any cooperation from the other branches of government it is doing as well as it can for the most part.
Much like the Electoral College (2016), whose function was to protect us from demagogs, our legislative systems have failed us. We have an unrestrained executive. The Judiciary is overwhelmed. All our systems are failing us.
It is time for better systems. The question is how and when?
This is why the GOP must be completely vanquished if this country is to retain the right to freely elect its leaders and other democratic freedoms. The Republican Party, as an organization, has become anti constitutional. Elected Republicans have betrayed their oath to defend the constitution.
The problem is that we haven't been ale to figure out how to BEAT them, let alone "completely vanquish" them. Perhaps we should try the former before we go all in on uncertain strategies for the latter.
The GOP is a symptom, not a cause, of the evil in the heart of America. For every Trump voter saying "I didn't expect immigrant slave camps" there are nine thinking "kick ass, Trump set up immigrant slave camps".
By all means wipe out the GOP, but something just as bad will replace it in days.
Agree. They’ve transformed to a full metastatic fascist cancer, an active threat to all who support democracy.
As with all cults, they now parrot the talking points of their cult leader. They no longer think for themselves. The ones who know what they’re doing is wrong are too cowardly to stop it.
They need to act more quickly. Endless delays for pleadings, motions & hearings, knowing it will be appealed anyway serves no one. Lawyers should also be held to the standard their licenses require.
Lawyer here. Spot on. The court system is capable of dealing with each of the individual actions being challenged, but it can't remedy the systemic problem that has gotten us here -- i.e., the unimagined complete lay down of the party in control of Congress
That's where a non-compromised CONGRESS would step in
But we're hog-tied on that front
So it's now all up to us
It's our government, anyway
Let's take it back from the corporate interests holding it hostage
There's 335 million more of US than THEM
I think you have to look to institutions with tangible power and these are failing us too. There seems to be a pervasive aversion to anyone sacrificing anything. We ask kids to go to war but we can’t get the most privileged to stick their necks out to prevent civil war.
Agree. And Liberals with power in institutions failing to treat this like the problem that it is, only make full fascism more likely. Here’s the point from a thread i made earlier:
The US court system can assess the validity of executive orders in their jurisdiction, guided by constitutional principles, doctrines such as the political question doctrine, standing requirements, & legal precedents. Consequently, can determine which executive orders are beyond their jurisdiction.
Democrats voted for Democrat Marianne Williamson because Democrat Marianne Williamson supports Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas and Ukrainian Palestinian Volodymyr Zelenskyy. https://youtu.be/z_4eAXEbdFI?si=38_IYaGR26KxJjIF
Yet, it seems the courts are in part whats clogging up the works for them. Judges saying, no, you can’t actually fire all those people, you have to hire them back. There are other crazy EOs and DoGe efforts in litigation. My hope is these judges will hold the line as they can.
Also elected reps not able to handle because they are proceeding as if party politics as opposed to a terrorist attack/ hostile takeover of the US govt which it seem it is. Uncharted waters and they don't see that- apparently...imho
Courts are designed to answer small, narrow, discrete questions. But our current crisis isn't an accumulation of small, narrow, discrete questions, and trying to get the courts to solve it is like trying to empty a bucket of sand with a pair of tweezers.
The constitution has a system in place for a crisis like this, and that system is impeachment and removal from office. That's the mechanism by which this kind of a crisis is supposed to be resolved.
All perfectly correct. And with impeachment unlikely and the courts being the wrong tool, the only thing remaining is for the People to take to the streets, in masses beyond what we've ever seen in this country. More than civil right marches, more than Vietnam anti-war marches. Is that possible?
Nationally disciplined parties happened immediately! Within not just the lifetimes but the first 5-10 years of the congressional careers of all the Founders!
Dan Olson has a fun analogy that I'm gonna butcher here.
It's all well and good to have rules about playing soccer; there's a social contract there. But once someone punches the goalie in the nose all of those rules are discarded pretty dang fast.
The impeachment mechanism doesn't work because of the two party primary system.
Every Republican has to get a majority of Trump voters to even get to the general election.
This is not how the founders meant for the system to work. https://fairvote.org/our-reforms/ranked-choice-voting/
I believe the two party system has always been problematic.
But at one time there was more regional variation and independence within the parties.
Recently the parties have become more centralized and internally uniform.
This exacerbates the flaws in the system.
Removing that mechanism—as Republican congressional majorities have made it clear that there is literally nothing this administration could do that would make them even contemplate impeachment—is the equivalent of cutting a car's brake lines.
It's as though 50 years ago Republicans realized the courts were the obstacle for total minority control and have been on a Federalist crusade ever since to stack them to make sure they can never interfere with the fascism.
It worries me more, actually, that the Democrats have so capitulated to their GOP colleagues that only one of them is even calling for impeachment. They could all be saying what you are saying here, and it would put pressure on the GOP to relent, but it's just Al Green.
They had leverage in the Senate, and they threw it away with the explicit justification that they were fighting these things out in the courts, and they didn't want the courts to get shut down.
could argue that it was never really there. impeachment has removed one sitting President in the nation's history, and then only indirectly (Nixon resigning rather than being removed), and apparently the only lesson his party took from it is that consequences only come if you give in.
They showed TWICE that they would refuse to impeach trump for ANYTHING. Even after his January 6th terrorist attack when he would have only been removed with a few days left in his term.
That is extremely solid evidence that it's power has been removed.
Hell someone just shared me the letter they got back from their trump endorsed rep and it literally says they would contemplate any impeachment articles that came before them.
They have removed that mechanism in the sense that they are flatly refusing not just to impeach, not just to consider impeachment, but to conduct any of the oversight or investigation or guardrailing that could possibly lead to impeachment in the future. They have ruled it out as an option.
Tons of angry constituents are screaming at them. They are under pressure already. and the real import taxes haven't even started yet. and the coming recession is still months away.
A lot is going to change, and it seems likely that attitudes toward impeachment will too.
Gabe's point, which I agree with even while not at his level of fervor, is that impeachment is "dead" BECAUSE political actors in both parties are acting as if it was. However, that is a correctable issue.
You might be able to stop such a car, there are things you can do to try to stop such a car, but the way you're supposed to stop the car—the mechanism in the car that stops it when it needs to stop—no longer exists.
And so every time a federal judge acts in a way that seems weird or unsuited to the moment, the first thing I try to remember is that they're being asked to empty a bucket of sand with a pair of tweezers.
And if you're being asked to empty a bucket of sand with a pair of tweezers, it may be hard for someone watching from a distance to tell whether you're doing a good job of it, or even really trying.
A plane won't operate the same in space. A Silverado can't tow a tanker. A lawyer or judge can't lecture a coordinated fascist movement into following rules.
You are spot on. It’s sadly a situation where the unlawful times in which we find ourselves are so extreme, that it will probably take extremely unlawful and aggressive measures to rectify. (Ahem, Luigi).
The problem is that it is not "a crisis" -- it's a cascade of overlapping crises. The cascade increases in speed and mass every day.
Trump had 4 years to perfect his "run out the clock" court strategy. He pushed and pushed and found all the points of weakness in our archaic governmental system.
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https://bsky.app/profile/drobertsimg.bsky.social/post/3lklqh4wits2w
1) peacefully protest en-masse
2) voice your complaints to Congress
3) help get Dems elected to overturn the House. There is a special election in Florida on April 1, 2025. Volunteer to reach out to voters:
https://www.mobilize.us/?q=Weil%20valimont
But we need to accept in that one case, it's ONLY optics, and there was no good result available to anyone.
And after 30 days, it's literally coded into law that all spending decisions go directly to the Executive.
It... was arguably a worse option. Genuinely worse.
At that point it feels like things are bound to fail. You can't build a system ran by people that is resistant to people not doing their jobs.
*It'll be sparse and weak constraint. Never admitting failure.
The only way out of this is going to be with gunfire.
I think more people need to realize that at the very least this stuff probably represents a mortal wound to this particular system.
Seriously though, I agree that people being corruptible is just a fact that you have to account for.
https://bsky.app/profile/adriancjr.bsky.social/post/3lkr4fdkvu22k
Our court system requires integrity, perspicacity, and courage.
All three are notably absent.
The courts are not failing. They're enthusiastically participating in the Rapist's coup.
If government doesn’t need the will of the people to exist, it will become corrupt fast
Are you saying that if I defied an order, I'd still be freely walking around? They are not above the law.
Trump gets away with it until he has real, actual consequences for malfeasance.
Lone people trying to do anything about it are shoveling in a blizzard. No groups (court, police, army, the people) have jailed him, and made it stick.
Consequence needs action.
At least it will create some resistance.
There are exceptions, and I suspect we're moving in the direction of seeing some of them in action, but the fact remains.
1) Impeachment by Congress, &
2) the 2A by The People.
2A’s not off the table. Politicians in the swamp; the oligarchy in the WH should be verbally reminded of that.
It is time for better systems. The question is how and when?
By all means wipe out the GOP, but something just as bad will replace it in days.
As with all cults, they now parrot the talking points of their cult leader. They no longer think for themselves. The ones who know what they’re doing is wrong are too cowardly to stop it.
But we're hog-tied on that front
So it's now all up to us
It's our government, anyway
Let's take it back from the corporate interests holding it hostage
There's 335 million more of US than THEM
USA (all nations?) need a rapid reaction legal task force, crossed with Delta team.
Like the world of Judge Dredd?
Democrats voted for Democrat Marianne Williamson because Democrat Marianne Williamson supports Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas and Ukrainian Palestinian Volodymyr Zelenskyy.
https://youtu.be/z_4eAXEbdFI?si=38_IYaGR26KxJjIF
Republicans voted for you because you support Russian Dictator Vladimir Putin.
There was no voter fraud in the 2020 election.
The thing is there are times you work with what you have. You have to throw the rear view mirror away, get moving, and stay moving.
It seems the courts are going to be the torch and pitchfork crowd. Who knew? Don't shortchange them.
(I am a lawyer/constitutional theorist)
(And I'm pretty pleased with the tweezers analogy, I do admit.)
Honestly, that was a mistake.
Just a thing people broadly agreed to follow.
It's all well and good to have rules about playing soccer; there's a social contract there. But once someone punches the goalie in the nose all of those rules are discarded pretty dang fast.
Every Republican has to get a majority of Trump voters to even get to the general election.
This is not how the founders meant for the system to work.
https://fairvote.org/our-reforms/ranked-choice-voting/
But at one time there was more regional variation and independence within the parties.
Recently the parties have become more centralized and internally uniform.
This exacerbates the flaws in the system.
I am ashamed that I did not start marching on Jan 7th 2021.
https://bsky.app/profile/angus.bsky.social/post/3lkr2vxr3dc2x
The GOP has clearly proven that impeachment does not exist anymore by refusing to remove trump TWICE.
They showed TWICE that they would refuse to impeach trump for ANYTHING. Even after his January 6th terrorist attack when he would have only been removed with a few days left in his term.
That is extremely solid evidence that it's power has been removed.
A lot is going to change, and it seems likely that attitudes toward impeachment will too.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runaway_truck_ramp
Trump had 4 years to perfect his "run out the clock" court strategy. He pushed and pushed and found all the points of weakness in our archaic governmental system.