In the German system, the professor is - supervisor - employer - examiner of "their" PhD students. Plus, they usually function as gatekeeper to the relevant scientific community. What can possibly go wrong? 🤔 - ThreadSky

lisaspantig.com • 4 days ago

In the German system, the professor is
- supervisor
- employer
- examiner
of "their" PhD students.
Plus, they usually function as gatekeeper to the relevant scientific community.

What can possibly go wrong? 🤔

Reposted from Virginia Gewin

“There is far too much power in the hands of professors in the German system,” says @leising.bsky.social.

My latest @nature.com story digs into efforts to tackle the entrenched structural heirarchy that enables academic bullies.

Comments

sennjulien.bsky.social•4 days ago

I don't think this is necessarily a german problem and I have always seen this as the biggest issue in academia. Juniors are way too reliant on advisor(s), at all levels.

lisaspantig.com•4 days ago

I agree that it is a general problem but it's especially bad in Germany as the supervising professor has so many additional roles.
At least in the UK, supervisors are not examiners and the employment contract (if any) is usually with the department, not the supervisor.

georgweizsaecker.bsky.social•4 days ago

A relevant property of the German system: few professors.

Only professor can examine students, apply for certain grants, sit on certain committees, ... (with minor exceptions). Privilege, sense of entitlement - and multitasking, which they're not good at, so they delegate many things to juniors.

prachisrivas.bsky.social•3 days ago

It's not that different in other systems if doctoral students are on a project grant.

lisaspantig.com•3 days ago

That's true. In some of these cases you still have the separation of supervisor and examiner (I'm thinking of the UK), but the more responsibilities get combined, the higher the dependency.

hbru.bsky.social•3 days ago

Someone should change the system! Wait, the professors are in charge of (not) changing the system.

bosslermario.bsky.social•4 days ago

I agree with all your points. But in the end, I am also proud of myself for fighting my way through.

denewjohn.bsky.social•3 days ago

I had an excellent Professor for my doctoral dissertation in Economics in Germany. He was prolific, supportive and opened many doors. I benefited tremendously from the German system. I heartily endorse it. I was able to graduate several of them myself while in Germany. Proud of them all. #EconSky

lisaspantig.com•3 days ago

I also had a great PhD experience in Germany but I also know of others who didn't. I believe much of it is linked to the prof. Switching supervisor in the German system is quite hard, also because we have this concentration of roles.

denewjohn.bsky.social•3 days ago

I have never heard of switching advisors. It really didnt exist then. Maybe it does now. However there are so many structured PhD programs now in Germany that mimic US/UK programs. I completed in 1995. Dissertations were written in German (or even Latin). English required special permission.

megalley.bsky.social•4 days ago

also there are often no structures in place to make sure professors actually do supervise their phd students (in the sense of supporting them in their research and thesis writing)

lisaspantig.com•4 days ago

Yes, so true. Rather than supervising, some profs impose themselves as coauthors (but still contribute less than a normal supervisor would in their supervisory role and without being a coauthor).

megalley.bsky.social•4 days ago

in my field I was more familiar with profs hardly engaging with their phd students at all and then not being happy with the thesis as they saw the work for the first time in their role as examiner

megalley.bsky.social•4 days ago

(thankfully that was not my own experience, but I saw this happen to others)

garritzmannj.bsky.social•3 days ago

Metallica said it best: "I'm judge and I'm jury and I'm executioner too"

erikstrub.bsky.social•4 days ago

I would like to nuance this: typically the university is the employer, _not_ the professor. I agree that already the combination of examiner+supervisor enables misuse. But for a uni it would e.g. be difficult to end a contract if a PhD with 50% position insists in working not more that 20h/week. 1/2

lisaspantig.com•4 days ago

The position is usually financed from the prof's budget, the prof signs the contract and decides about renewals. I took the liberty of summarizing this as "employer".

erikstrub.bsky.social•3 days ago

On this case I agree. But at least in Cologne, it's not the Prof who signs the contract but the human resources department.

lisaspantig.com•3 days ago

Oh that's good to hear. In Aachen, I sign these contacts. Maybe HR co-signs (I don't know), but I get to decide the hours, extensions, ...

erikstrub.bsky.social•3 days ago

Ok, I do that only for students (SHK) but for everyone who has at least a B.Sc., HR does it.

erikstrub.bsky.social•4 days ago

Maybe some things would change if a few PhD students would go for court. (I admit that I speak from a privileged position, and I do not claim I would have done it myself as a PhD student).

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