counterpoint: no they aren't, they're going to come up with increasingly intricate and convoluted explanations for why things aren't lining up with their expectations of reality. Stop waiting for people to "come to their senses", you're not going to get to say "I told you so" to anyone - ThreadSky

roryblank.bsky.social • 56 days ago

counterpoint: no they aren't, they're going to come up with increasingly intricate and convoluted explanations for why things aren't lining up with their expectations of reality. Stop waiting for people to "come to their senses", you're not going to get to say "I told you so" to anyone

Reposted from Richard Branson

Interesting read - 'Conspiracists are about to get a dose of reality' www.thetimes.com/article/b3bb...

Comments

lontar.bsky.social•56 days ago

"Surely this will be the tipping point" every month until the end of time

neonebula.bsky.social•56 days ago

Absolutely correct. The problem is MAGA / conspiracy theories are the glue that hold their understanding of life together. These are the "reasons" they use for their own failures in life. Letting go of this means taking personal responsibility. That is too hard for many people to do.

catebridget.bsky.social•56 days ago

yeah, who’s the fantasist here? sheesh. when the world doesn’t end on a certain date do people stop being Jehovah’s Witnesses, or do they recalculate and pick a new date?

amy4opus.bsky.social•55 days ago

Yeah, I just have to think of all the dooms day cults that thrive even after one or 2 or more of their predicted DOOMS DAYs come and go quietly.

skeletalminion.bsky.social•56 days ago

They threw their very lives away by the literal refrigerated trailer truckload during the early years of the pandemic. They have long been too far down the rabbit hole, wallowing in delusion, lost to reality.

ediequinn.bsky.social•56 days ago

This guy sucks so bad lol

armelh.bsky.social•56 days ago

they'll blame leftists, migrants, and trans people

docbaker99.bsky.social•37 days ago

And the reptilians from the Hollow Earth too.

12adcatghost.bsky.social•56 days ago

People generally don't come to their senses. It sucks but it's true. Yes, it is possible to change someone's mind through intense effort and education, but no, it is not likely to work, and no, it doesn't work every time.
For all the people that changed their mind, many more bred.

typicaltahdig.bsky.social•56 days ago

My dad is a conspiracy type and you’re absolutely right. I’ve watched him move goalposts, move to different topics, and get more convoluted. He will never snap back to reality.

potsandpansrobot.bsky.social•56 days ago

Is this one of those little bastard Gove-clones who were churning out opinion column shite during the Corbyn years? Thought they'd all fucked off to think tanks now.

vivvox55.bsky.social•55 days ago

I remember the studies on apocalypse cults. As the predicted dates of doom came and went, people got more into not less. Admitting a big chunk of yourself is based on getting scammed is damn near impossible.

veryberrykeri.bsky.social•55 days ago

this is what happened with mmr and covid. it's not going to change with a new vaccine or anything else

insanelybuff.bsky.social•56 days ago

they live in a fantasy world. the simple explanation and observable reality of "everything sucks because greedy powerful people want more" is not a good enough explanation for them because they want to feel like theyre in a special secret club, they have no interest in the truth

rwoodsmall.bsky.social•56 days ago

also: richard branson. lol

tomatorot.bsky.social•56 days ago

antivaxxers will NOT get a rude awakening when viruses spread and i know this because 5 years ago a certain virus started to spread a LOT and it actually made the antivaxxers significantly worse and more delusional. so

tharsull.bsky.social•56 days ago

that author really needs to grow a beard, it would compliment his jawline nicely, the clean shaven look does not suit him

krozgentheork.bsky.social•56 days ago

Something something when profecy fails something

redicnomad.bsky.social•56 days ago

These people just dig deeper until they start blaming aliens.

ogmalcontent79.bsky.social•56 days ago

I have (for work) been digging into the right’s online spaces and they’re really working so hard to generate “logical” reasons to support their positions. They have to leave a LOT of reality shit out for it to work, but there is a semblance of internal logic that allows them to double down.

dinosaucy.bsky.social•56 days ago

with how many conspiracy theories end up ultimately as antisemitism no amount of disease or financial collapse will dismiss their antisemitism they wish to share with other bigots

brokeshealds.bsky.social•56 days ago

these people blame Obama for 9/11, they will never have a moment of self-reflection

mxdshipwreck.bsky.social•56 days ago

Yeah, the whole point of conspiracy theory is that it expands to encompass any possible explanation or counter-argument to be just another facet of the conspiracy. You can't reason people out of a position they didn't reason themselves into

zaaack.bsky.social•56 days ago

best way forward is to occupy their time on more harmless conspiracies like elvis and mel's hole

mxquitegood.bsky.social•56 days ago

I wouldn't listen to this guy. He previously wrote an article saying artists deserved to starve to death because of AI because he apparently found them annoying at college.

Great guy, just swell. Very insightful.

nellucnhoj.bsky.social•56 days ago

Ah, yeah, I knew this guy was the Main Character for a while, but couldn't remember why.

mxquitegood.bsky.social•56 days ago

He's got such a memorable, punchable face

stardustneon.bsky.social•56 days ago

Oh, of course it’s the same guy.

psiop.kawaii.social•56 days ago

Safe stable societies are not the kind of societies that produce and provide fodder for conspiracists.

andbrnn.com•56 days ago

Lack of evidence is proof of a conspiracy. And in a world turned upside down by grifters coming to power, there will be more people looking for an explanation and fewer obvious answers.

hercluesmooligan.bsky.social•55 days ago

As an ex-conspiracy theorist, the moment the conspiracies cross into your world of expertise, the walls start coming down. Trying to talk to other CTs and be like "no really I work in this, this isn't true" and being met with that brick wall, it breaks you out.

Also my brain finished developing.

rikabel69.bsky.social•56 days ago

Can’t uncook a cooked brain

leftinfighter.bsky.social•56 days ago

Conspiracies are not based in knowledge but self-affirmation. The least effective way to deprogram a conspiracy theorist is through logical argument, the most effective is to find something else to soothe their emotional need and/or give them a new conspiracy that negates the other one.

rpgimaginings.bsky.social•55 days ago

It is well-established that conspiracy has nothing to do with logic or evidence. It is all about emotion.

piri.bsky.social•55 days ago

Yeah there’s a documentary on Hulu called Totally Under Control about Trump’s handling of covid. It is astounding that he could fuck up so badly, get over 1m Americans killed, and people still voted for him.

mraik.bsky.social•56 days ago

Oh it is way simpler than that. They are just going to fall back on the teachings of their church. It is g-d’s plan. He will take care of it. And if not that was his plan to let people die.

biasbe.bsky.social•56 days ago

People really don’t understand how conspiracies work, and how Americans are conditioned from birth to think admitting being wrong is worse than death.

wormslord.bsky.social•55 days ago

Climate scientists spent years telling people that natural disasters would get worse under climate change. Now that those disasters are here, they've shifted to claiming democrats control the weather. They will not change. They will stay stupid.

chuckrampart.bsky.social•56 days ago

The column is not saying that conspiracists will recognize the error of their beliefs.

It is saying that they will face the negative consequences of the the actions inspired by their beliefs, consequences they had previously been insulated from by the somewhat sane world around them.

dragom.bsky.social•56 days ago

The reason The Evil wasn't defeated is because Good didn't triumph *hard* enough. If we just do things the *actual* right way, The Evil will be defeated and the world will be saved. If The Evil isn't defeated or the world isn't saved, they must have done it wrong.

rossisok.bsky.social•56 days ago

It’s like Don Quixote. All the supporting characters tell you that he’s 90% rational, but anything that contradicts his specific mania is instantly dismissed as “a wizard did it”

leftsedfred.symmetricforests.online•56 days ago

But but but they will care about egg prices and inflation. They have to listen to reason! 😢

bunplush.bsky.social•56 days ago

Legit I don't think the person who wrote the article knows what a "Conspiracy" theorist is.

It's White Guy confidence mixed with Incel entitlement - they'd sooner suck my trans cock in a room filled with angry bees and their disappointed parents, than admit they were wrong about the Weather.

bradleybirddos.bsky.social•56 days ago

I'd rather normalize violence against the propagandists warping American minds with conspiracy theories.

wolfbridge.bsky.social•56 days ago

They’re already saying the plane crashes are organized by “them” to force us into 15 minute cities.

katarjin.bsky.social•55 days ago

...w-what?

goldencoyote.bsky.social•56 days ago

You can’t use reason to talk someone out of a position they didn’t use reason to talk themselves into

themontgomery.bsky.social•56 days ago

Especially with the regime having already told everyone to expect "short-term pain."

recoilman.bsky.social•56 days ago

they're whole thing is that they are resistant to reality

ghostdoggtv.bsky.social•55 days ago

Fascists will always choose to blame. The way their movements work can't abide individual self-reflection or correction.

imnotdrumatic.bsky.social•56 days ago

You can't teach a pigeon to play chess.

richkurt.bsky.social•56 days ago

Agreed

bdwildeman.bsky.social•56 days ago

I think the point of the story is not that the shameless will feel any shame, but that the marginal pain of listening to these flat-earthers will drive them back into the shadows where they belong.

prinnyforever.bsky.social•56 days ago

"contrary to all demonstrable fact and historical precedent, people who are completely disconnected from reality and part of a cult are going to spontaneously correct from having to face reality" is... quite the claim

roryblank.bsky.social•56 days ago

specifically: the article mentions antivaxxers getting a rude awakening as viruses spread.
No. Covid antivaxxers now believe that they can get sick from people who took the vaccine shedding vaccine particles onto them and shit like that.

norbertmadao.bsky.social•56 days ago

I wondered how the people predicting mass death from the vaccines would react years in when everyone was fine.

Turns out they'll just take any random news story of a person being hospitalized and blame it on the vaccine.

roryblank.bsky.social•56 days ago

What I will say is I don't think all of these people are doomed forever to this being their lot, but waiting to smugly tell them "I told you so" isn't going to get them there.
Getting people out of this stuff requires calm, polite grace and patience.

k8000.bsky.social•56 days ago

I felt all of the above when I saw this early, but I'm glad you had the levelheaded grace to post it so eloquently

evanengel.bsky.social•56 days ago

Festinger, "When Prophecy Fails", etc. Doomsday cults double down when their prophecy doesn't come true

rattleboneses.bsky.social•56 days ago

Also, not for nothing, but saying "I told you so" literally makes it harder for folks who are on the fence to engage in that shared reality by adding yet more shame to the shame and embarrassment already inherent of getting out of such nonsense

trep.bsky.social•56 days ago

even with a crowbar it's difficult to open a closed mind

michaelsweater.bsky.social•56 days ago

People still don’t understand the power of the human mind to eat shit to our own detriment.

If you want someone to eat crow at least set the table and give them some privacy. The only other option is violence.

roryblank.bsky.social•56 days ago

just to be clear here, I'm not saying you can "hug it out" with Alex Jones, and I wouldn't recommend hugging Alex Jones anyway, lord knows what lethally toxic effluvia he'd sweat out onto you (not metaphorical), but you CAN save your Joe Rogan listening coworker.

dillo.media•56 days ago

mf just dropped effluvia like it's a normal word lol

roddusi.bsky.social•56 days ago

I’d like to hear more about this perspective. His audience hasn’t moved as far right as he has? They disagree with him and his guests?

yucateco.sextape.mov•54 days ago

there’s a lot more people down stream of these conspiracies than their most hardcore adherents

reductionistparty.bsky.social•52 days ago

Could somebody please hold this bastard Alex Jones to all the things he said immediately after 9/11 about how "the two political parties were too much alike & were warmongerers" using warmongerer as an insult? I'm a Green, but I am pro-war against any individual on the planet who starts injustice.

kiddocut.bsky.social•56 days ago

This. Like. It’s hard being being patient with people who are sore winners-but they won’t actively look at data when you too are a shitty winner.

tomnookyankees.bsky.social•56 days ago

At this point the better option is probably just finding methods that kill off enough alex jones types.

kurtrussett.bsky.social•56 days ago

I guess he is like vaal hazak.

dustoleum.bsky.social•56 days ago

As an ex-cult child, I can say this is true.

mr-creosote.bsky.social•56 days ago

it comes down to narrative. spinning a yarn. that's what convinces people, not facts or evidence. and that's why you can't unconvince people with facts or evidence. the truth rarely makes for good storytelling, but bullshit always does.

emo-sludge.com•56 days ago

I think all the time about that flat earther documentary that came out some years ago where they keep trying to prove that the earth is flat, and the more their experiments disprove the earth being flat, the more convinced they are about the strength of the conspiracy of the spherical earth.

scohoe.bsky.social•56 days ago

reminds of this I saw yesterday.

hayao.lol•56 days ago

conspiracy theories are reality proof, that's their whole point

what is wrong with these dummies

doubleharold.bsky.social•56 days ago

You can't logic and evidence your way out of a position you didn't logic and evidence your way into. No matter how much proof you give a conspiracy theorist, even when it's directly affecting them right in front of their eyes, they'll always find a way to justify their worldview.

benderdict.bsky.social•56 days ago

To paraphrase Goldfinger, "I don't expect them to learn, I expect them to die"

roryblank.bsky.social•56 days ago

I don't think that's particularly helpful either. That's the sort of thing that only reinforces them feeling persecuted for their beliefs.

benderdict.bsky.social•56 days ago

Im not here to coddle idiots, they need to learn those lessons

benderdict.bsky.social•56 days ago

vor-bokor.bsky.social•56 days ago

I remember this guy's fucking face from writing something INSANELY annoying one or two years ago, lol

robpilk.com•56 days ago

yeah it was the "artists are elitists and AI is the equalizer" bullshit

vor-bokor.bsky.social•56 days ago

Ahhhhh of course

roryblank.bsky.social•56 days ago

Do you think his job is specifically to come up with the worst opinions imaginable or do you think he comes by it naturally?

mrgoldfish161.bsky.social•56 days ago

It gets clicks and attention, and that means money. So yes, I think that's what his job is.

vor-bokor.bsky.social•56 days ago

Noah Berlatsky-tier moron

pershing48.bsky.social•56 days ago

I mean, it won't change their mind but a Flat Earther or Atlantis Truther never sees a "consequence" from their belief in the same way an anti-vaxxer today might.

fanofthecritic.bsky.social•55 days ago

It’s always been a paradox to me how debating and swaying another’s position or beliefs are held as virtues while simultaneously changing one’s beliefs is considered to be a sign of stupidity or cowardice. Doesn’t help that plenty will hold another’s past beliefs as evidence of wrongdoing forever.

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