You never want to get this particular lecture from a judge. - ThreadSky

rmfifthcircuit.bsky.social • 11 days ago

You never want to get this particular lecture from a judge.

Boasberg: "I often tell my clerks before they go ou tinto the world and practice law that the most valuable" treasure they have is "their reputation and their credibility"

Comments

justandro.bsky.social•11 days ago

It occurs to me that what is really at issue here on most of these cases is whether we are just going to decide as a legal system and culture that lying is fine.

lawnerd.bsky.social•10 days ago

A circuit appellate judge once told me that “if someone has to go to jail make sure it’s your client not you” but I hasten to clarify it was addressed to the whole lecture hall and he was a professor at the time. It would have a different valence if he said it to me now.

jwmckenzie.bsky.social•11 days ago

It depresses me that DOJ is doing this. We need federal law enforcement to be credible. We need DOJ lawyers to walk into court and secure convictions for non-partisan crimes. Judges are going to stop believing DOJ. That’s bad.

davidnir.com•11 days ago

Paul Weiss could have used this lecture.

kajlaw.bsky.social•11 days ago

Nope. Their careers post Trump are over.

taz1.bsky.social•11 days ago

Why? He is not going to give sanctions or hold anyone in contempt.
Our system is flawed and it will be the demise of the US.

barryd.bsky.social•10 days ago

Well, is it?
In fact, was it ever?

billiecat.bsky.social•11 days ago

It would sting if anyone working for Trump had the capacity to feel shame.

mdemone.bsky.social•11 days ago

They just claimed the due process rights of aliens are "quite limited" and I thought Boasberg was going to shit a brick

chazperin.bsky.social•11 days ago

Unless she's your Legal Ethics professor

billjensen.bsky.social•11 days ago

Sadly, he isn’t going to do anything though. It’s all just babble. The new rule is a President can disappear people so long as they beat filing of the habeas petition.

matthewstiegler.bsky.social•11 days ago

Kinda feels like the inverse of the judge starting the hearing by telling your client what an amazing job you did 💀

jponzi.bsky.social•11 days ago

Simultaneously the best and worst thing to hear from the bench. Although in one notable example, the judge effusively praised both sides at the end of a bench trial, weeks before his ruling. Will always appreciate that one - was received without the sense of impending doom.

pwnallthethings.bsky.social•11 days ago

Oh my god

pwnallthethings.bsky.social•11 days ago

"when you grow up and try and get a big boy job, remember it is important to learn from the lesson we learned today"

rolodexpropaganda.bsky.social•11 days ago

Literally had a talk like that with my dist ct judge once. Will never forget it!

scrispin.bsky.social•11 days ago

🤦‍♀️

blondejustice.bsky.social•11 days ago

Every litigator reading this is cringing in horror with second-hand humiliation. But then again, I would have resigned before I ended up in that position

magnetcarta.bsky.social•11 days ago

Was the Judge giving an inspirational speech to a bunch of high schoolers? Let's scroll up and see!

Oh...

Oh no...

ethanjacobs.bsky.social•11 days ago

Joke’s on the court. I’d have died of shame well before he started this lecture.

suddenlygarmo.bsky.social•11 days ago

a lack of shame is required to work in the name of the conservative movement

bikesandbattles.bsky.social•11 days ago

“…enough of a fool or enough of a coward…”

transitfossil.bsky.social•11 days ago

the wrong era.

DoJ and MAGA do not give a sh-t about the reputation or integrity.

shame is not going to stop them.

now what, judge? is this all they have?

fighting the wrong war.

sidebarbie.bsky.social•11 days ago

I can’t wait for the dramatic reading from Rachel Maddow tonight.

liminalatlaw.bsky.social•11 days ago

If a judge said this to me because of my conduct I would melt like the Nazis in Indiana Jones. Just turn into a puddle of goo on the spot.

missbingley.bsky.social•11 days ago

The second-hand shame I feel on their behalf 😔

All of these people have to go home tonight and face their families, their children knowing they are in the wrong.

liminalatlaw.bsky.social•11 days ago

I used to think the same.

Now, I think there are just a lot more people functionally incapable of shame than my family raised me to believe.

usuallyquietin.bsky.social•10 days ago

💯

They have absolutely no concept of shame.

lilywhitebread.bsky.social•11 days ago

What happens if the judge holds the DOJ lawyer in contempt? Not a lawyer, so I don't know how this works

danziger.bsky.social•11 days ago

And yet these idiots will wear it as a badge of honor.

jmteo.bsky.social•11 days ago

I would instantly start crying

lenday.bsky.social•11 days ago

Seems some do not care about such minor things? 🙄

arts-et-metiers.bsky.social•11 days ago

I’d need to change my name and get some sort of sci-fi plastic surgery total face replacement before I ventured into public again.

rmfifthcircuit.bsky.social•11 days ago

I don't know if he is going to issue a contempt order, but DOJ has basically admitted contempt as I read the reporting.

seansatori.bsky.social•11 days ago

Ensign admitted he knew the judge intended the order to be binding and he told this to his client, so…

jon-eisenberg.bsky.social•10 days ago

They are still claiming the oral order was of no effect. Silly, but they have some authority for that in their brief. They also claim the third airplane load was not based on the AEA proclamation. So I have not seen them admitting contempt, though they committed it.

stroligus.bsky.social•11 days ago

Ensign seems to have realized he’s in trouble and might need a job after DOJ. He’s cooked.

jbthrowawayy.bsky.social•11 days ago

Just from a first reading of all this, it seems that Boasberg really, really doesn’t want to issue contempt orders and is giving every last chance to the DOJ to relent, but is increasingly met with the realization that such an outcome is no longer in the cards.

debaurah.bsky.social•11 days ago

Fucking coward judges.

jbthrowawayy.bsky.social•11 days ago

Less of that imo, more of “I really don’t want to be the one to issue contempt orders against the govt but they’re leaving me with no choice”

debaurah.bsky.social•11 days ago

Even issuing the orders won't matter. Has anyone but gross Bannon home to jail from being in contempt?

debaurah.bsky.social•11 days ago

Bet a dollar he doesn't.

rmfifthcircuit.bsky.social•11 days ago

The notion that the way to get review is by filing a habeas petition is pretty risible to me.

rmfifthcircuit.bsky.social•11 days ago

Like, how can you get habeas from El Salvador? What are you talking about?

rmfifthcircuit.bsky.social•11 days ago

I understand guantanomo. We control that. What is an order from a federal judge to extract someone from a foreign dictator’s prison worth?

jon-eisenberg.bsky.social•10 days ago

There is a reasonable argument that El Salvador is a U.S. fee-for-service contractor, so USA can be ordered to release them. If DOJ argues it’s outside their control, that would be a very scary scenario but also a very damaging admission.

adub01488424.bsky.social•11 days ago

I keep using this word, but it would be pretty *extraordinary* if we are deporting Venezuelans to an El Salvadoran prison from which we have no power to recover them.

rmfifthcircuit.bsky.social•11 days ago

I think we did exactly that, unless someone tells me otherwise

jennysampson.bsky.social•11 days ago

I believe that’s precisely the problem (and exactly what Trump wants)

rmfifthcircuit.bsky.social•11 days ago

Genuinely feel like I'm going crazy as DOJ keeps sayin the answer is habeas. Habeas what? To whom? How is a remedy effectuated?

discoveryattorney.net•11 days ago

Exactly. We aren't holding these people. We paid a dictator to hold them.

pgoat.bsky.social•11 days ago

I feel this in my bones. Am I losing my mind? 👀

matthewstiegler.bsky.social•11 days ago

https://bsky.app/profile/matthewstiegler.bsky.social/post/3lkvwdunjz222

chiashurb.bsky.social•11 days ago

I’m dying to know where they think venue is proper under the immediate custodian rule.

humeancondition.bsky.social•11 days ago

"Show me the body."

"Whoops! Sorry. No body no crime, right? Right...?"

jponzi.bsky.social•11 days ago

That has been my big question. Apparently there's some agreement between the US and ES. Does that include the right to "recall" the deportees? Could be a dumb question, but I don't know enough to know.

Granted, that's a separate issue from whether ES would abide by any such arrangement.

lbschoenberg.bsky.social•11 days ago

Right, if they’re in El Salvador already, they are no longer in the custody of the US within the meaning of the relevant habeas statute (28 USC 2241). This is an illusory remedy for the detainees, if DHS can simply transfer custody to Salvadoran authorities before the detainees file suit in the US.

gbbludworth.bsky.social•11 days ago

Is their theory that the petition should be filed in hours, the writ issued to the American custodian immediately, with the hearing and disposition to follow—as in traditional writ practice? It'd have the virtue of making the failure to maintain custody of the body into obvious contempt...

ericsipple.com•11 days ago

This is so similar to the worker firing arguments, where they claimed to the judge there was a remedy that did not actually exist for those affected. It seems to be a pattern forming in their defenses.

tkords.bsky.social•11 days ago

Isn’t Venezuela holding them *for* the U.S.? If so, I would think the theory would be that Venezuela, although technically a country, is effectively acting as an independent contractor for the U.S., and the court would order the U.S. to request their return under the contract.

reichlinmelnick.bsky.social•11 days ago

Ensign told Boasberg that yes, as he understand what Boasberg said, the oral order was in fact binding.

belmontx2.bsky.social•11 days ago

Game, set, match.

timothyraben.bsky.social•11 days ago

As this comment came after the discussion of where Ensign had been this week I took this comment from Boasberg to basically mean: there is likely contempt/consequences to come from this and I would advise you to think carefully about if you want to be included in that.

raxiusomega1991.bsky.social•10 days ago

The judge is not playing around.

normcook.bsky.social•11 days ago

Isn't it safe to say all if Trump's attorneys will be the spirit of Roy Cohn l, unless otherwise noted?

katrynlanthier.bsky.social•11 days ago

Wow!

qabinofblue.bsky.social•11 days ago

That will not phase them.

pseag.bsky.social•10 days ago

Reputation (your name) is MOST valuable!!! NOT money alone!

vbe-banshee.bsky.social•11 days ago

This is absolutely true. Hammer coming down…

dtipson.bsky.social•11 days ago

I think the game has changed. Judges are hit or miss, but there's massive amounts of money & power on your side as someone aligned with the regime: we've seen endless conservatives flunk but still make $$$. The judges can & will be replaced. Their rulings won't matter as much. That's the calculus.

dtipson.bsky.social•11 days ago

Of course these folks are in contempt: they openly have contempt for the system and have for building decades, contempt is central to their worldview. And like Trump, they see a world in which power and money can buy them out of anything. Are they wrong? We'll see

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