A propos of nothing, UnitedHealthcare declined to cover my husband’s ambulance trip to the morgue because his insurance policy lapsed at the second of his death.
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There is a technical exception because under California law a person is not deceased until they are declared dead and paramedics arrived before he had been declared dead.
It’s a pity the media trying to spin this as a unique tragic event when it happens to a CEO and giving the widow airtime isn’t something they extend to the countless victims of this dystopian monument to inhumane greed every single day.
As far as I am aware in the UK a doctor has to examine a deceased person and declare him or her to be dead, so it sounds as if things are the same in California.
These companies are profit driven only. They don’t give a shit about anyone’s illness. My mother had pancreatic cancer, and I can’t tell you how much Humana harassed and tortured her over getting a $74 iron shot because her iron was dangerously low. They wouldn’t pay it.
I'm deeply sorry for your loss. That a wealthy company added to your suffering is unacceptable. The murder of UHC's CEO is horrific. But it expresses for many, an understandable response to our helplessness when faced with a callous business model that gives no space for normal humanity.
May you never find yourself on the phone writing with the CEO of UnitedHealthcare’s office arguing over how much time it should have reasonably taken you to find your husband’s dead body in your own house over a $2000 ambulance bill.
I know things are different in Canada, but heavens. My son had to take an ambulance a couple of years ago after a fall in the school yard, it was $150.00… even with 2 paramedics. Ambulance service is subsidized with our taxes of course, but in scary times, we need that extra support.
Why the fuck is an ambulance bill $2000!! In Canada it's only $40 (mind, I don't know what the morgue charges to pick up a body, as our EMTs do not cart the already dead).
others have mentioned this - the bill to deliver the body to the morgue should not be $2K. Local/State governments should legislate a cap on this cost as a matter of "the greater good." There are so many issues within this awful scenario that could be managed by better *regulation.
*not always bad.
Regulation is exactly what the Libertarians want abolished. It's every man for himself in their scheme, and right now it looks like they're going to get their way.
My mom paid the bill because I couldn’t bring myself to and UnitedHealthcare, after my appeal to the office of the CEO was denied because they claimed my husband’s insurance lapsed the second he died and they wound not cover the ambulance to the morgue, threatened me with collections.
That was my thought also, like did they try open heart surgery in the vehicle or something, seems like it should have been a pretty uneventful ambulance trip in and of itself, presumably a short trip within city boundaries, how could that rack up $2000 in any case
I've been in that situation as an immigrant. If I hadn't been forced to leave the country for visa reasons (dead husbands don't count toward marriage visas it turns out) I would have had to leave anyway rather than be financially crippled for the rest of my life.
I am so sorry you had to go through this. No UHG does not extend sympathy to its "customers". It angers me that they are a publicly traded company that makes billions from denied care.
I extend my sympathy to you. Insurance companies are often despicable. My husband died suddenly. I had to give him CPR for 22 minutes before squad arrived. Scary experience and the sudden loss changes your life forever.
that's appalling! insurance companies should prioritize patient care, not profits. lapsing in policy shouldn't mean denying essential services, especially in such a sensitive and traumatic situation.
That is extremely f***** up. Why in the hell do we have to give these f****** money we're being forced to give them money and it's a f****** scam that's all insurance is. Wow I am so sorry you have to go through that and him
That would be unbelievable if not for being a private insurance company, which sadly makes it entirely predictable. Again, there’s so far beyond too much MASSIVE MONEY in our political system since Citizens United. Until that ends, no change is possible. #EndCitizensUnited
UnitedHealth denied my heart failure medication now my injection factor is 20, and now I need a heart transplant. Yeah let me feel sorry for a billionaire CEO. Don't get me wrong I don't think he should have been killed but people are sick, and tired of companies playing God
If your company is making money off compounding human misery for profit, you’re in a dangerous spot just the same as if you built your headquarters at the mouth of a volcano.
I can feel bad for his family while also admitting it feels like a natural consequence of his actions.
What did they expect you to do, load him in the Honda? Sickening. I'm sorry you had to go through this, don't extend the same sympathy for the event that took place this week.
First of all, my heart felt condolences regarding the loss of your husband. I’m sorry for your loss and what you’ve had to go trough battling that stupid company. It’s horrific to hear all the stories coming forth about how bad healthcare in the US has gotten. You need to demand public healthcare.
god I'm so sorry, it's incredibly dehumanizing to have to fight with insurance over anything, let alone someone's death... they are so brazen in their lack of morals and basic humanity all in the name of squeezing out every last dollar after lying about being there to help us. 😞
I am so sorry that you had to deal with bureaucratic asshats from UHC. It makes me irrationally angry that they can steal your energy from you while you are in the grieving process. I cannot even imagine what kind of soul sucking entity that it takes to behave like that.
My husband and I had Highmark out of Pittsburgh. He died in his sleep on New Year's morning. The first working day after that, Highmark called me. They expressed condolences for my loss and explained ALL bills related were paid and if anyone tried to bill me to CALL them.
The whole time I was dealing with cancer, I never saw a bill.
My sister had Geisinger Gold Medicare Advantage. She was in stage four and 2 weeks before she died, she was fighting with them about her bills. Then she realized she could not use them to get a second opinion. I WARNED HER.
I tried. I really tried. I explained to her that Fox admitted it was NOT a news station and they embellished stories for entertainment. She thought for a minute then said "Well they are more right than real news stations."
We have been battling the same thing with my in-laws. There is no reasoning with them. She was all into Praeger U (long known to us Michigan folks as a scam. That and Amway).
I had bilateral mastectomy bc I had breast cancer & the brca mutation. Standard Medicare & supplement paid all but $83.00. Friend on UHC had $7000.00 out of pocket for the same surgery.
I have the VA now and they ask us to get a secondary insurance. Cigna used Welmed. I called them to find out how to fix a mistake in billing [they got it instead of the VA]. The idiot at Welmed kept telling me I had to call United. I kept telling her I didn't have UNITED. I NEVER HAD IT.
The last time she repeated herself I finally roared into the phone saying "I HAVE NEVER HAD NOR EVER WILL HAVE UNITED. AND I DAMN WELL AM NOT HAVING CIGNA ANY MORE BECAUSE YOU ARE AN IDIOT"
Hubs and I will need to explore Medicare in a few years after I’m off of my employer plan. I hope these gop bastards don’t make Advantage plans mandatory
For sure! As a retired provider, I recommend traditional Medicare & a supplement if still available. That’s what we have & it’s hands down the best insurance we’ve ever had. I didn’t accept Advantage plans when I was working bc of low allowables & high denial rates.
Did not know that health insurance ever cover this. Apparently they do, using the same rule Medicare uses: "If the official time of death is recorded as happening prior to ambulance dispatch, then Medicare and most insurance payers will not pay." It would never have occurred to me to make a claim.
The poor lady was right to call the paramedics. But when they arrived to find a man long dead, they should have contacted the coroner or mortuary, not given that body a ride in their ambulance.
"There is a technical exception because under California law a person is not deceased until they are declared dead and paramedics arrived before he had been declared dead."
She did not know if he was dead or not, so she called 911.
The ambulance was sent so that paramedics could treat him or determine that treatment would not be helpful. The ambulance HAS to have been dispatched before the time of death was recorded, because they cannot record time of death without seeing the patient.
I had to be on a phone in an ER for 2 hrs to get payment (not approval, but actual credit card payment, cards were declined) to EMS so my pt could go to the hospital her orthopedic surgeon was at so she get surgery for a broken femur. $1600 just to transport. I was crying with her at the injustice
It’s not customary for an ambulance to transport a cadaver; that’s the job of a mortuary/funeral home & is included in funerary expense. Ambulances are for life saving purposes.
Not a cadaver until it's declared a cadaver, and that needs to be done at the hospital in this case. Might want to warn your family members that you think otherwise, though. I'd want to know if my husband would just send me to the mortuary if he found me unresponsive, rather than call an ambulance.
I am so sorry the terrible loss of your husband was made worse by this inhumanity. I’m sure it was difficult to share, but I appreciate you doing so because we must fight back against blatant immoral corporate greed.
It's really difficult to NOT have violent thoughts when I read about situations like yours. Instead, I will keep you in my thoughts, then check my own policy to make sure my own ride to the morgue won't impoverish my survivors.
I keep thinking about the proposal to only pay for anesthesia for a certain time limit. I had an operation that was supposed to take 20 or so minutes to remove a tumor but ended up taking three hours because the tumor was larger than expected. So I would have had to pay the difference? Insanity!
My sister had a surgery that was supposed to be 10 hrs…..16 hrs later they finally finished. Imagine what could have happened….surgeon rushing, sister being responsible for the 6 hrs not covered, etc. Health care should not be determined by insurance companies
I'm so sorry for everything you've had to go through. That is cruel and horrible. Don't let medical related costs overwhelming you. If negotiating the bill doesn't work, pay them only $10 a month no matter what the bill is. Regular payments look good on credit.
Anthem Blue Cross Blue Shield refused to cover my daughter’s helicopter ER visit which she wasn’t even awake for — called by state troopers and ambulance, and saved her life. They said the helicopter wasn’t necessary.
I am so so sorry you had to go through this. Of all the stories of insurance fuckery that people have shared over the last day, this one has hit me the hardest. The callousness of what you went through...
I’m not impressed with how our conservatives are systematically carving up our system, but at least we have the cold comfort of not being as bad as the Americans.
They've started by privatizing supplies and non medical services. Tories were voted out just in time. As an American, I tried to warn people. They saw the service starved, then Brexit exit of so many professionals. It's going to be challenging to get it back into shape.
The plan, like with everything else, is to run it into the ground and then convince the stupid the only solution is privatisation.
And they'll still fall for it.
After my mother passed, we also got a sizable bill for the ambulance ride transporting her between facilities. I just told them there was $0 in the estate and they could either settle for a reasonable sum or they’d get nothing. We settled, but grieving people shouldn’t be forced to deal w/ this BS.
Just FYI, that 1 person in your replies is a troll. As to their spurious claims, the Farm Bill in '14 that cut food stamps had zip to do with ACA. House Republicans wanted to cut foodstamps by over 20 billion at the time. ACA Medicaid expansion actually increased SNAP ~3%, pissing off the GOP.
Can't find anything remotely resembling where they got their ideas about insulin pumps. There are legitimate criticisms of the ACA & Obama, but those 2 aren't. What sucks is how many people get swept up in these conspiracies & "alternative facts" & vote based on them.
Every healthcare CEO in the US should be worried going forwards. There are consequences for killing people or putting families through unnecessary hardship like your scenario. What did they achieve by doing this?
Not just healthcare.
The way they're going they'll all have to watch their backs.
Only so much P***taking people will put up with.
Even the dumbest will eventually work out it's not the migrants, disabled or trans making them poorer.
Is he on Medicare? Because that's the state's cost, and I know this from my close friend. States take up to six months or more to pay, but they try to get insurance to pay first.
That sounds right. 6 days after my husband died, they pulled his social security check out of our bank account while I was in the middle of paying my bills. I didn't have enough money left to finish. I had to borrow money so I could live until they decided to give me survivor's benefits.
The entirety of health care profit models is “deny claims”. Fucking over the sick & dying is their sole business. Commercial heath insurance is 100% evil. Nationalised health care is the only solution.
Ambulance services for transportation to a morgue are not covered by insurance. Ambulance service is specifically for living people with a potential/actual need for Basic Life Support
Sorry to hear about your loss… not really sure he needed an ambulance to the morgue… where I live the funeral home does the pickup and likely included in the cost of the funeral… a 911 call where an ambulance is used to transport is charged out at over $1000… why???
I never will. I've been in ambulance once for a 1-1.5 mile drive and someone else called it without my consent.
I've literally walked to the hospital campus from my house because it was right next to our local YMCA. Those fuckers charged me 2000 dollars for the privilege.
Two years ago I fell flat on my back on concrete while weeding. I told my husband not to call an ambulance tho I was concerned about spinal damage. He called. I had a cracked vertebrae and no spinal damage. But imagine my surprise when I got a letter from my small city that the ambulance was free.
However my insurance will not cover Rinvoq for my progressing RA. Over the years I’ve needed more and more powerful meds for it. So I have to beg AbbVie to give it to me for free. $1700 a month is more than my entire disability check (that 45 wants to nix, too). Still haven’t been approved for 2025.
I’m only 57 and have had the rheumatoid arthritis for 30 yrs, and without proper treatment I cannot function, would be in immense pain, and my joints would soon twist up.
Thankful for you! Hang in there. It’s weird what they cover. For a decade+ I had 6mon IV infusions of Rituxumab, like $20k each, all paid but they could save half covering Rinvoq and be thankful the other drug stopped working for me! But no, let’s just stop caring.
Absolutely true! A man I worked with had a heart attack at work in front of me, told me to call his wife and not an ambulance as they couldn’t afford it. Thankfully she got there quickly and he’s here today.
I can’t imagine what you would have gone through if he didn’t make it. These are the talks we need to have beforehand with friends and loved ones… or we could just fix the problems in the industry. Wouldn’t that be nice?!
Our teacher retirement system dumped UHC last year. I was paying through the nose for private insurance on top of my Medicare to make sure I would get as much coverage as possible. I now have the same insurance company, just a different plan, and pay a tiny fraction of what I used to.
My complete sympathy is with you. My husband collapsed at home in front of the paramedics. The Medicare Advantage plan paid part of the ambulance costs and I had a copay for the ER but nowhere near what you described. Things definitely need to change.
I cannot wrap my head around what I just read. Good Lord- no one should have to endure what they put you through. I’m sorry for your loss and for their dehumanizing treatment of you in your hour of need.
For goodness sake - did they expect you to use a wheelbarrow?
It reminds me of the bank who wouldn’t allow us to see my deceased father’s bank account without his verbal agreement despite having a death certificate etc etc. I offered to run a seance in the bank manger’s office before he backed down.
Took me 3 visits over an hour each to close my dead brothers account with $132 in it. I was his guardian, I had to get a letter from a judge allowing me to close it months after he died.
And now we're about to see an exponential widening of the gap between the haves and the have nots. We kill one man for having exactly the same attitude toward 'normal folks' that we vote another man into the presidency for 🤔
From one death to another.
The amount of people justifying the murder of a CEO is horrifying. I see why America is deteriorating. People cheer for the misfortune of others.
UHC steals billions from providers too! In most cases, the providers are the ones who don't get paid if a claim is denied. You won't find many defendants of UHC inside the medical world. There's bad insurance, then there's UHC. They bring banal evil to a new level!
🏆 “too… poor, to push back”. Yet, how many of us would consider ourselves poor, but for the fact it takes more money than people have to seek redress? There is no such thing as justice. It’s nothing but a fairytale.
Too poor means that we have to work full time just to eek out a living and cannot afford the time to advocate for ourselves or the money to pay an advocate. I have a home, but only because I am working full time well into “retirement” age. I know many who are. Most of us are the working poor.
These are the "Mr. Potters" of the world, screwing over others out of greed and sadism. The rest of us are some version of George Bailey. (All are characters in the film "It's a Wonderful Life.")
They need to wake up soon & we all need to work together. The effort to get Biden to declassify any & all existing records of tRump colluding w/ Russia may help prevent a US dictator. We all need to work together to spread the word & pressure Biden. Sunlight IS the best disinfectant!
It took me 7 YEARS to get a $350 refund check for when I was overcharged for multiple doctor visits. No amount of emails and phone calls made a difference. But when I finally said I was going to report them to the state insurance commission for fraud I was Fedexed the check overnight.
That’s why overtime won’t be taxed. So you’ll work even longer hours. You’ll need it to survive and if you’re working that hard there’s no time to organize or revolt
I have no words.. how horrific, I’m sorry this happened. Insurance companies are a scam in this country. And we are stuck in this system with no way out.
My husband fell from scaffolding at work & “lived” in an induced coma for 6 more days until workers comp ins. informed me that if I continued to refuse termination of life support, I would be $ responsible for all his care b/c he was “legally” dead.
That is so horrible. How can a company allow their worker’s comp carrier to treat an employee like that? Disgusting insurance. I am so very sorry you were faced with that decision.
I did get an attorney, however there was nothing they could do since he was indeed legally braindead.
I am a nurse & after all was said & done, my 41y/o husband died 19min after they withdrew life support. The autopsy showed his brainstem had been dislocated down into his neck.
I am sorry for your loss. My father recently passed and like I told my mother: The hardest part of dying is being a surviving family member. Hang in there!!!
And you guys have huge ambulance costs down there dont you? I know up here someone from out of province would pay $900 for the short ambulance ride I needed Halloween 2005 after being bear sprayed by hooligans. But me being in province it cost $90.
I’m so very sorry you lost him, and so suddenly, and that any cruel bureaucracy had anything to do with your pain infuriates me. I’m sure it has been awhile, but condolences on this utter endless loss.
I would’ve countered that you were technically no longer married the moment he died, so you’re not legally responsible for the debt. Because two can play at that game.
I guess she called the ambulance, so she is the contract party, and if the deceased would be considered the contract party, she would inherit his debt... nevertheless, she has all my sympathy, and the guy with the hoodie made this world a slightly better place!
As someone who fought a hospital for months and was harassed by creditors over whether my mom's medicaid insurance covered her hospital ER visit for pneumonia a week before she passed I feel you so deeply on this.
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I appealed to the office of the CEO.
My appeal was denied.
‘You declined to cover Anti-Nausea medication for little kids with cancer, for absolutely no reason’
“You shut up! Where’s the empathy?!”
As far as I am aware in the UK a doctor has to examine a deceased person and declare him or her to be dead, so it sounds as if things are the same in California.
I got a bill addressed to Zickity Jamjam.
I was an idiot and submitted a claim to UnitedHealthcare.
It’s nice to know some of the parademics have our backs.
But let’s not be foolish and assume UnitedHealthcare extends that sympathy to its customers.
I’m happy to go on the record about this experience.
*not always bad.
(Hid the name of the investigator who declared my husband dead)
My Mother passed at home (as planned), and transporting her body cost ~$200.00.
I'm sorry. I know what it's like.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/uhc-ceo-brian-thompson-net-135558746.html
I can feel bad for his family while also admitting it feels like a natural consequence of his actions.
2) I’m very happy about your karma win
@catsjpg.bsky.social
Also F#%$! #UnitedHealthcare for putting you through that.
I am sorry for your husband's passing. 🕯️🕊️
My sister had Geisinger Gold Medicare Advantage. She was in stage four and 2 weeks before she died, she was fighting with them about her bills. Then she realized she could not use them to get a second opinion. I WARNED HER.
The poor lady was right to call the paramedics. But when they arrived to find a man long dead, they should have contacted the coroner or mortuary, not given that body a ride in their ambulance.
"There is a technical exception because under California law a person is not deceased until they are declared dead and paramedics arrived before he had been declared dead."
She did not know if he was dead or not, so she called 911.
It wouldn’t make sense to continue providing care to someone who passed away, such as surgery.
My husband died at home and I had no way to know he had already passed.
I thought the paramedics would save him.
UHC’s policy makes no sense to me.
I'm sorry for your loss.
Their incompetence put everyone at risk allowing their system to be hacked.
box it and float me down river.
I don't care. I'll be dead
My thoughts are with you during this time.
https://www.google.com/search?q=pro+publica+united+health+care&rlz=1C1UEAD_enUS1069US1069&oq=pro+publica+united+health+care&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIPCAEQABgNGIMBGLEDGIAEMgkIAhAAGA0YgAQyCggDEAAYgAQYogTSAQoxNTkxNGowajE1qAIIsAIB&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
I’m not impressed with how our conservatives are systematically carving up our system, but at least we have the cold comfort of not being as bad as the Americans.
Their system is an absolute horror show.
And they'll still fall for it.
To think that so many of the underprivileged voted for Trump!
Is it stupidity or lack of self awareness?
New to this.
The way they're going they'll all have to watch their backs.
Only so much P***taking people will put up with.
Even the dumbest will eventually work out it's not the migrants, disabled or trans making them poorer.
so very sorry for you & your family
https://youtu.be/SDOS8I0wp24
Did you manage to fight this? I mean, at a time when your life is basically shattered, they. come in to deliver a financial kick in the teeth?
I've literally walked to the hospital campus from my house because it was right next to our local YMCA. Those fuckers charged me 2000 dollars for the privilege.
Just leave me on the floor if I fall. I’d rather drag myself there than pay that.
Lucky for me, my wife was livid and made me get in the car.
It reminds me of the bank who wouldn’t allow us to see my deceased father’s bank account without his verbal agreement despite having a death certificate etc etc. I offered to run a seance in the bank manger’s office before he backed down.
The amount of people justifying the murder of a CEO is horrifying. I see why America is deteriorating. People cheer for the misfortune of others.
and furious that they treat people that way.
I'm so sorry that happened to you and that needs to change.
For all the nameless people aid, abet, and arranged mass death from the climate-controlled comfort of their desks.
Not directly involved in the murders, of course, but… *murderers, nonetheless.*
I always thought that perfectly describes Ben Shapiro, for example…😉
Check the contract.
My husband fell from scaffolding at work & “lived” in an induced coma for 6 more days until workers comp ins. informed me that if I continued to refuse termination of life support, I would be $ responsible for all his care b/c he was “legally” dead.
I only meant to reach out to the OP to express the empathy one has following such a devastatingly horrid experience.
My heart goes out to all who lose those they love, especially when forced to compound such deep loss w/ greed, cruelty & inhumane bureaucracy.
I am a nurse & after all was said & done, my 41y/o husband died 19min after they withdrew life support. The autopsy showed his brainstem had been dislocated down into his neck.
My condolences on the loss of your husband
I'd be pissed off.
Here. Have a laugh.
Rules vary by state.
https://www.creditkarma.com/advice/i/medical-debt-after-death#:~:text=In%20most%20cases%2C%20the%20deceased,although%20there%20are%20some%20exceptions.
You have my utmost sympathy.