How sane overall is America anymore? I’m sitting here in Canada, waiting to be “annexed”. If the majority of people are telling us the Rubicon’s been crossed maybe we should take that seriously?
Just gonna put out there that the opinion in the screencap is the motivating ethos behind a huge chunk of pop culture movies and TV shows, so it might not seem so crazy to a lot of Americans.
This is completely missing the point. Yes “these clowns” aren’t doing it… but Luigi did. Others will in the future if societal conditions don’t change. The point was that the seal has already been broken.
He said, “It’s time to walk the path.” If he had said that societal conditions need to change or others will follow Luigi, I wouldn’t have disagreed. Because he would have said something different.
But, yes, if you change what he said, then my response to that different thing misses the point.
Speaking as someone who has been at risk of extrajudicial violence once or twice, 1) you really do not want to go down this path willingly, and 2) guys like this are going to be worse than useless in the event of it becoming a thing (they can be easily duped into targeting their own allies)
I believe (man, I HOPE) that if a man were shot to death in cold blood in front of them, with all the bleeding and choking and terror that means, that they would realize some things. I hope.
yeah the things that would make them realise are not good things that we want people to believe (cf. the summer of love hippies all turning into archconservative boomers full of facebook uncle shit, except much worse)
want the world to stay soft because hard worlds make people worse, not better
It's less that, I think, and more 'these people (like a lot of hippies) are *already* reactionaries, this would just bring that out in them more fully'. It's not a 'turning into' so much as it is the inevitable arc.
violence isn't usually the answer but also the justice system only usually works (and less so every day). violence is a possibility precisely because there are points of failure and the contradictions of our society must resolve, some how. pretending otherwise will leave you unprepared to help.
I was actually pretty shocked to hear just how many people "outside my group" (IE pretty normal, not terminally online folks) were actually like "no no that was totally understandable"
You might be the one that's a little silo'd off here
I understand the belief isn't actually rational, but the problem isn't that the CEO was guilty. It's that denying coverage causing the death and dismemberment of US citizens is completely legal and there's no realistic way to change that.
I think you missed the part where the right jumped to his defense as well and actually ratioed popular voices on the right. It was the most aligned weve been in decades.
Yeah, it's pretty bad. We shouldn't scare ourselves into thinking it's bigger than it is, but the weird in-group conviction that EVERYBODY feels this (completely insane and morally bankrupt) way is...disconcerting.
Heh. I'm happy to blame that guy for ANYTHING. (The Russo-Japanese War. Cholera. Airline peanuts.) And he sure loves exactly the same kind of violent revenge fantasy! But sadly it's bigger than him, even. People have this in them, always. We're just not supposed to LIKE it.
It is innate for sure but even the "restrained" Trump of 2016 talked about beating the hell out of people as an applause line. We're all susceptible to the environment.
He definitely did. And yeah, it was deeply shocking at the time and for me that's when the quiet dread started mounting because somehow no one treated it as utterly disqualifying for public life. He got more popular.
That’s definitely one of the big moments where I looked around and was like “oh, the only people who care that he said that are me and some of my pals online.”
I was able to extend grace and appreciate the conflicting feelings at first. I understand that it was first-and-foremost a meme and "valorizing outlaws as folk heroes" is older than dirt. Whatever. People blowing off steam.
But now? For the people still on about it, it's not a meme! They literally just think this is TRUE. That he's a good guy who did a good thing, and that is a right and proper way to do politics. This is...fucking nuts.
Only because by a simple roll of the dice, you too can experience the utter inhumanity that is US private health insurance. And you don't get treated badly once and think this way. It's consistent abuse and indifference over years to you and your loved ones.
A lot going on there but "only because" is a good place to start lol. But even granted the premise that either live this themselves or (what I'm talking about) have absorbed this folk narrative as absolute truth -- there is no leap from there to "this is good. this is how things should be."
If you'd like to tell me that people AREN'T saying that, and dead-ass saying it with no irony whatsoever, well, I disagree. They mean it. Otherwise normal people are making a point online of being cheerfully pro-murder. That's contemptible, period.
The second post is internet hardman territory, but the first is closer to what pretty much everyone I’ve spoken to about this irl has expressed: some version of “not great, but fuck ‘em I guess.”
Well, sort of, yeah. But the thing is that they're using that first (defensible but dubious) claim as a way to get to the second one which just admits that it's all about "wallowing in violent fantasy".
Yeah I mean that’s definitely a big part of it for a lot of posters, but I’ve also heard completely offline senior citizens say they wish Luigi could have taken out more bad guys, so I just don’t think the sentiment sounds crazy to as many people as it used to.
oh heavens no. People love bloodthirst and lynching the lord of the manor, etc. Hell, sit in any break room full of white people and they'll enthusiastically endorse the death penalty for shoplifting and ask whether you knew they let them have TELEVISION in prison? (It's not supposed to be fun!)
It's just...if we think of ourselves as decent, as people who try to be on the right side, we know we're not SUPPOSED to think and say those things. These people have persuaded themselves they can do that AND be the decent ones! That NEVER ends well.
When there is an existential threat to your life and way of existence you absolutely can be both decent and violent towards it. The disconnect is that I don’t think some of you understand how much these billionaires are an existential threat. Hopefully you’re learning fast.
No doubt, but it doesn't even matter. Hell, the more it's JUST fantasy from keyboard warriors the better. But it's deeply uncomfortable they've found a means for that to be a normal way to think.
Nazis took over the government. They are going to try to kill billions of people. Stop your fucking pathetic pearl clutching and get a gun and go kill some fucking nazis.
and by "your group," you of course refer to the Yellow Signalling NPC Tribe, which was so brilliantly defined by Scott Alexander in his seminal "Actually" essay
if i can send an honest signal for a moment, i think lots of americans across the political spectrum would agree with this sentiment. a lot of the public has lost faith in the system. i don't know what specific group you had in mind when you said "your group," but i think you'd be wrong regardless.
Comments
Very seriously
But, yes, if you change what he said, then my response to that different thing misses the point.
want the world to stay soft because hard worlds make people worse, not better
You might be the one that's a little silo'd off here
I understand the belief isn't actually rational, but the problem isn't that the CEO was guilty. It's that denying coverage causing the death and dismemberment of US citizens is completely legal and there's no realistic way to change that.
People who insist the gears crushing you need to turn, but also that you should never raise your fist at the man running the machine
The justice system is currently being fucking strip mined. Grow up.