The downside is the legitimization of religious groups as tax paying contributors that can influence legislation.
As it stands now, because of idiot politicians and zealots, religions already have too much influence.
If we could stop that, the country would be much better off.
I can't tell you where to find current data, & surely it's overly complicated to even estimate it, but this from 2019 might help explain why. @calltoactivism.bsky.social should delete this post as it's been shared thousands of times now & it's disinformation. https://taxfoundation.org/blog/church-taxes/
Don't Tax - Arrest!
All - cloth and collar - violators.
Don't exchange tax revenue to uphold Separation of Church and State.
Use simple form to IRS to report violators.
If all churches are taxed, the small ones that actually do good things will disappear, leaving only megachurches that follow a false gospel. I don’t think that’s what you really want. Better to tax those that cloak politics in religiosity.
Wages For Pastors Are Wages -Tax Them! Many Are Millionaires Profiting Off Christians—Your “Tithe” Isn’t To Support Christian Valued Charity To Lift “All People” Up In Time Of Need! Jesus Not A Millionaire Could Have Been —Chose People And Serving Their Needs—Christianity!
Because if you do that, then they have a constitutional right to representation inside our government, and I don't think that's what you're wanting here. That's why church & state are separated in the constitution.
Churches that promote a political party, politicians, or a platform should be taxed (following an unbiased investigation). However, many churches are politically neutral and do much to help the needy. My son goes to a church that is using their tithe money to build a center for battered women.
So the Billionares get tax cuts but the rest of us don't = Tax exemption. The church is now involved in politics? Hell yes all of them should should pay mega taxes !
Last time I heard, Jesus/God/Mary can hear you when you pray from your house. That building is just an oppressive mess. The money spent on that could have gone for good, feeding children, housing homeless, helping sick people.
The Vatican can cover the tab, look at all the pedos they're able to make disappear, it's almost as if they're the oldest Republic@nt org in the world...
You know the church is not a company, right… but it’s a group people gathering together to have church in a building or outside anywhere they can fellowship.
So to say tax the church is idiotic because the church, which is the people not the building or a company, are already paying taxes.
Literally the donations page says the money is for the church, undefined missions,outreach and the pastors podcast "the verdict"... I commented about it too I called it the pink castle when I was a kid, which is frankly a disturbing description for a church, if also correct.
It has past it's time. These so-called preachers do not preach religion. They preach politics and everyone knows it. Going to church has turned into a political rally.
They preach nothing but hate here in the Bible Belt. They should pay for everything if they insist on dictating to the rest of us . If Hell exists, it is going to be a permanent vacation from the horrid people where I live. I look forward to Hell more than they look forward to Heaven.
At the least, ALL churches should file the same information returns w/IRS that all other NFPs have to file. Seeing where the money goes will open many eyes.
Is this true? I have never looked into it. But again the majority of Evangelical Christian’s love trump? Under this administration they all will get richer? I’m sorry to sound like this. But the warning was 2016?? Here we are…
If they want to get involved in politics and legislation, then they need pay like the rest of us. Especially those big ass churches where their fearless leaders live in $10.5 million dollar palatial compounds.
So many churches violated the rules this election season by promoting/endorsing Trump/Republicans. If you, like me, saw churches talking about Trump being chosen by God and calling democrats “the party of death,” here is how to report them to the IRS:
The fact that churches make all this unaccounted for money. On the condition they stay out of politics!!! And then the right coincidentally had enough money to throw at all these social media figures including left wing ones to turn more right, is something that needs to be investigated
Do you know anything about most churches? Most churches are doing what they are supposed to be doing. Please don't assume that megachurches with rich grifting pastors are the norm. They are NOT.
It doesn't matter what most churches are doing. Nor did I 'assume' anything. If any of their money is being spent that wouldn't be tax-deductible for any other business, it should be taxed. Simple as that. They don't deserve to have all of their expenses assumed to be charitable.
Most of their expenses pay staff. Many try to provide 10% of their "income" (i.e., donations to support the church) for benevolence. Pastors and other staff aren't free.
If you saw that a non-profit that aims to end child hunger was only giving 10% of your donation for food to kids, and 90% was eaten up by 'costs', you'd not likely donate to that non-profit. Most wouldn't. 10% is horrible.
Well, I said in another response--churches are worshipping communities first. They provide opportunities for worship once a week or more. They provide classes for all (or most) ages. To make that happen, they pay musicians, pastors (who provide many services), other staff, pay printing costs, etc.
Your argument is that they pay for staff, therefore what? Other charities, non-profits, and not-for-profits have the same situation with their staff/admins.
This notion that churches should be in the same class as tithers is silly. 10% is ridiculously low for a church.
This is not thoughtful. Do you mean all nonprofits? Because how would we separate churches from Sierra clubs, food banks, and public interest law firms? If we tax all non profits, the only way to do this equitably, would have sweeping impacts.
You would think churches would agree. Then, we could fund Medicare, Medicaid and programs that feed the hungry, etc. You know, the shit religion tells you to do.
I resent paying taxes for them to get all of the money and dictate to the country which religion we have to follow. It's already a theocracy in the freaking Bible Belt. Why should I pay for them to tell me their god hates me? Fuck that and fuck them.
Some of them are nothing more than tax dodging vehicles.
Did you know that Plymouth Brethren Christian Church is focused on increasing wealth for it's organization and it's members through it's "Business Team"?
PBCC is an international business.... NOT a CHURCH
I don’t think it’s quite that straightforward. Although I’m all for scientology getting taxed to the hilt. What a joke to call it a religion. But they go and they don’t pay taxes. That’s why that scum, miscavige is wealthy.
They need to tax the churches that bring in high revenues. Leave the struggling small churches alone. The administrations for each religion should be audited.
My church can't even afford to have someone cut the grass in the summer, maintain the parking lot in the winter, along with the heat and electricity and other basic necessities. In other words we're not a Joel Olsteen revenue driven mega-church.
I hate to break it to you, but this is an absurd argument. If churches, most of which are small and property-rich but cash poor were taxed, most would close down. And I suspect the taxes you're talking about are mostly related to property tax, not income tax.
The rich slimy tv pastors aren't running the kind of churches that most people belong to. There are lots of Christian who are Dems--but they aren't in the churches with slimy rich pastors. They are in churches that are small and struggling, yet manage to do lots of social good.
Fair point. But you can still have reasonable tax policies that protects small churches while taxing the multimillionaire frauds who get rich and don’t have to pay a dime.
That would be lovely. I am shocked that so many people in this thread think that the frauds are the norm. I wonder how many of them know anything at all about the workings of the typical church--the plain vanilla mainline churches, not the white nationalist sorry excuses for churches.
Disagree, except for church's who participate in politics.
Most churches are hanging on by a thread and can't afford to pay taxes. Plus the money they receive is mostly from members, who have already paid taxes on the money they are giving the church.
Not, the church only pretends to help the poor. In Poland, priests live debauchedly, they do not follow the rules of their own faith. they build huge fortunes. They only pretend to help. the church is like that. should be banned.
Many organizations feed the poor and don't obligate sitting through serving or being testified to. There is almost always a catch. Regardless, a church building isn't needed to feed the poor. In fact, people not from churches have tried to feed the poor, but they have gotten arrested.
How about they can write off expenses that go directly to assist others ? That doesn’t mean they can throw themselves a champagne ball - it can be done - just like when schools buy supplies it’s tax free
There are tax exemptions for non-profits. Churches with charities, would fall under that umbrella. Only difference, they couldn't refuse any member of the public that qualifies for what they provide. Your church sounds cool, but then we have the Joel Osteen types that reflect badly on everyone 🙁
My friend just left her church of 20 YEARS because the harangue from the pulpit in the months prior to November 5th was if the congregation didn’t vote for trump, they were going to hell.
WT actual F????
The only help I ever got, years ago, came from the Salvation Army with no strings attached, no religious lectures & good food that was in date with fresh veggies & fruits.
I support the Salvation Army to this day.
Because they have to keep up the facade that they are good" people" that are helping us in GOD'S name. It's like Al Capone doling out food at the soup kitchens during the great depression
People wouldnt need churches to feed them if there were social safety nets. As well as likely less greed that pushed them there. Tax the wealthy appropriately and make corporations pay their fair taxes.
Already do help feed the food insecure in this area by donating to and volunteering with a very well-run, local non-profit that provides meals to children in need. No church involved. Churches could be taxed with allowable deductions for true charity programs I would think.
Most churches spend a tiny fraction of their budget on social programs. Most of their budget goes to operating the church. And that's fine! If you want to feed the poor, a much more effective use of those donations would be to a charity where the money is mostly spent on feeding the poor.
I agree. Giving food to hungry people is good but temporary. Investing in job training, housing for poor and homeless, eduction, etc., is all better than donating to a church and seeing 3% or less of that donation go to feeding the poor. Give it to a soup kitchen or a family services non profit.
I think churches, like everyone else, should be able to deduct charitable work. Feeding the poor: yes. Helping the homeless: yes. Fancy gyms for the members: no. Luxury cars for the preachers: no. Etc.
Churches that do works such as feeding the poor should be able to claim the cost against income, just like the rest of us get deductions for charitable donations. Should be the same formula. Churches shouldn't get a free pass just because they are churches.
Everyone should watch the documentary on Prime called Bad Faith. If you’re afraid of how christianity spread through Rome, this documentary will show you what’s going on here in America. I’m sure it pales in comparison.
What's ironic is that their "God" wouldn't approve of it either! But yet money talks.
By doing so, it makes them think they aren't doing anything wrong because they are doing it "in God's name". They care about the money. The religion part is just a cover.
That’s Only a Few Mega Church Evangelical Mansions …. Planes…Yachts…. Bentleys…. You know the Stuff They Need to spread the Word ….
So they Can Grift …More
Manipulate….More
Pedo….. More
It would raise the cost of church, 😆
On that note, why would the God who created everything need our money? 🤑
P.s. freedom from moochers be nice, especially religious politicians
Taxing churches forces religion into public schools. Hence, Oklahoma.
Rather than taxing churches, church monitoring watching churches only do religioun - no politics. Trying to mix church and state would be a $$ penalty when they get caught at it. we can't trust churches to just be churches.
Depends on the church. Some churches are extremely poor and actually want to help people like Jesus told them to do. Others are businesses, plain and simple.
If they want exempt status adopt two homeless folks per church.
There are approx 300K churches and approx 600k homeless.
Churches could end the homeless crisis by doing so little but they won't.
#TaxTheChurch
Sorry to say, churches have no money unless we give it to them. We create the rich and the religions. If they had no money, we would not have to think about how much to tax them.
Problem, the smaller churches that really do, do good for their communities will be forced to close.
All 501c3s would have to be taxed.
Some do the works for humanity as believers are asked to do.
A cap on income after expenses may work but would need to be well thought out.
The LDS church alone has hoarded wealth comparable to the GDP of Saudi Arabia or Switzerland. I know they do a lot of charitable work with some of that, but come on, why does a religion who claims to be above wordly things need that much money?
Tax exemptions should be only equal to the costs of supplying actual service (not preaching, counseling, services or real estate). A food pantry run by a church should be tax exempt, but not the whole church.
At the very least tax the institutions that prop up any political candidate, message, or ideology. If Church and State are not 100% separate, then why should they get away without being taxed?? Get religion out of my government or pay taxes. Choose.
In all fairness most religions do this. Look at these five star resorts and hotels and shopping centers over looking a holy site where everyone has to wear the same clothes so that they are equal.
Churches in the US get total donations of about $74 billion per year in total. And they, in fact, get taxed at the federal level on the same basis as other non-profits like, say, the ACLU.
One more thing to disprove your point even more, I work at a nonprofit and the revenue to tax cut ratio is AT LEAST 10x more and 80% of our funding HAS to go to the services we provide. Ain't no church getting tabbed like nonprofits, it's not even a comparison
Considering the fact that the churches are dictating laws to the rest of us and trying to force themselves on those of us who want nothing to do with their hateful religion, they should pay for everything in government from now on. I resent paying taxes in a country that hates me.
You would need an atheist in power who isn't on putins payroll. Maybe I'll get lucky and trump will change the laws enough for me to run and save the people from their own nations ways.
On similar, but related note, I’m surprised the Amish aren’t taxed. Their buggies ruin roads and they aren’t as off-the-grid anymore. This applies to Pennsylvania, but other states may be different.
Especially if Trump is bringing back prayer in schools. Which wouldn't make sense if he plans on getting rid of the Dept of Education. How would he mandate that.
Comments
As it stands now, because of idiot politicians and zealots, religions already have too much influence.
If we could stop that, the country would be much better off.
All - cloth and collar - violators.
Don't exchange tax revenue to uphold Separation of Church and State.
Use simple form to IRS to report violators.
Tax the rich
Tax corporations
The Vatican can cover the tab, look at all the pedos they're able to make disappear, it's almost as if they're the oldest Republic@nt org in the world...
So to say tax the church is idiotic because the church, which is the people not the building or a company, are already paying taxes.
Cost to build: $36 million.
Seats only 2350 ppl twice on Sunday.
Ppl are insane.
TAX THE CHURCHES!!!
It can't be national.
Citation please.
If not separated from state...
Well done⚽️
1. Turned into apartments for the homeless.
2. Be used for concert venues.
So I say tax them like normal businesses, but let them offset those taxes like everyone else does with receipts that demonstrate actual charity work.
This notion that churches should be in the same class as tithers is silly. 10% is ridiculously low for a church.
Revoking exempt status of churches is different.
I don’t make the rules.
Did you know that Plymouth Brethren Christian Church is focused on increasing wealth for it's organization and it's members through it's "Business Team"?
PBCC is an international business.... NOT a CHURCH
Most churches are hanging on by a thread and can't afford to pay taxes. Plus the money they receive is mostly from members, who have already paid taxes on the money they are giving the church.
America needs to decide if we will allow people to starve to death or die of exposure in the richest nation in history.
Start there.
Now Megachurches with pastors who openly about their designer shoes on a stage, however…
WT actual F????
I support the Salvation Army to this day.
They can also claim deductions if they like... 🤷♀️ Like all the rest of us.
Feeding the poor is a bandaid solution. Yes it is necessary but you need to heal the wound too.
By doing so, it makes them think they aren't doing anything wrong because they are doing it "in God's name". They care about the money. The religion part is just a cover.
So they Can Grift …More
Manipulate….More
Pedo….. More
On that note, why would the God who created everything need our money? 🤑
P.s. freedom from moochers be nice, especially religious politicians
Rather than taxing churches, church monitoring watching churches only do religioun - no politics. Trying to mix church and state would be a $$ penalty when they get caught at it. we can't trust churches to just be churches.
There are approx 300K churches and approx 600k homeless.
Churches could end the homeless crisis by doing so little but they won't.
#TaxTheChurch
But still: tax 'em.
All 501c3s would have to be taxed.
Some do the works for humanity as believers are asked to do.
A cap on income after expenses may work but would need to be well thought out.
Can't judge a book by its cover though.
They don't do anything for communities
https://www.madisontrust.com/information-center/visualizations/worlds-largest-landowners/
#democracy #landownership #colonialism #AusPol #UKPol #AUKUS #Australia #agriculture #agchatoz
we run on a shoestring budget.
https://lightstreetchurch.org
The rest of him will burn after he passes away 😂
Fuckin' A Man. AYOOOOO
Fuckin' Amen. Based.
Lol sorry hehe.
Fucking CRAZY that they don't!
#church #pope
what is the math here?
Churches don't pay tax so it is one big circle jerk once money bought Washington