And honestly it's kind of a wonder why those folks need cars in the first place. The policy combination of dense cities and car dependency is hard to wrap my head around.
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I work for a big apartment rental company. Somewhere around 40% of Americans live in apartments. There's also a lot of folks here in the US, which is very car-centric, who don't have access to home charging, and many if not most probably can't charge at work either. Different options for diff folks.
Level 2 charging infrastructure is cheap. I am so tired of this world which says "well of *course* we install circuits in every single unit for stoves, dryers, water heaters and such but it's just too damn hard to do that in the parking lot"
You're preaching to the choir, but I've actually talked to the executives who'd have to authorize paying for it - and they just don't wanna. It's often a struggle to get necessary & overdue repairs approved by the leadership class. Every dollar spent is a dollar that could've gone to shareholders.
One interesting thing I learned is there are more charging hookups in California than gas pumps currently, because you have so many home chargers in addition to all the public charging stations. So charging in CA is, on average, easier to do than filling a car with gas.
This seems like the best solution for the apartment problem. Although, I think it will take a lot to get there, as it involves the installation of thousands of chargers in every city and town.
So, maybe high speed charging could work as an intermediate solution?
There's an EV maker that I was just looking at recently that has chargers with a standard US plug on it so anyone can charge anywhere they have a normal outlet to plug into. I wanna say it was Myers EV
I have almost exclusively charged my Bolt EV with a 120v plug, and I'm about to hit 65,000 miles. For the first year or so before I installed an outdoor outlet, I was plugging it in inside through the window.
I've known for a long time and I have been praying for the universe to drop a Sebring Citicar in my lap although this is a one in a million chance but who knows!
Level 2 is all well and good but as an apartment dweller I am beholden to the pricing my landlord puts on the chargers, and at 60 cents a kWh it’s literally cheaper to go to an electrify America station.
This is a failure of imagination more than anything else.
It is not rocket science to run wires from a building to a parking lot. And even if there's an issue with building capacity or access to existing circuits is difficult, it is not rocket science to arrange a new service drop.
Not a failure of imagination - a failure of capitalism. I know how much it would cost, I priced it out for my building I used to run, and the answer from leadership was basically, "lolz - nooooooo."
I believe it! My brother had an experience where the HOA arbitrarily wouldn’t let him set up a dedicated 240V charging circuit for his carport at his condo… at his own expense… while he was the HOA president
He tells me he was only a figurehead who couldn’t exercise power without being propped up by a confederation of aunties who agreed to withhold certain HOA grievances while he served at their behest
This might sound like crank nonsense but I think a large part of why we're in this mess is we're all too willing to discuss issues without mentioning solutions.
It's why I never simply say "people cannot charge at apartments" - that's a political reality, not a practical one.
"Not mentioning solutions" is pretty much the default for a lot of discourse these days.
Anyway, I think you're right and the obvious solution would be federal regulations. That's why we have handicapped parking spaces and food safety standards in spite of it not being profitable for capitalists.
Our residents ask for it, our prospective residents ask for it, but every dollar spent is one that could go to shareholders instead.
If we're going to discuss solutions we're going to either need something like that fast charging tech or a total revamp of American capitalism. Which is more likely?
Agreed. It's a big reason I focus so much on universal basic income as a big solution. It's so annoying to see talk about the problems UBI would do a lot to at least partially solve, without mentioning UBI as even a possibility.
I’m living in Spain at the moment, around 90% of people in my town live in apartments. There are 22kW chargers and half the supermarket car parks, and even in the town owned car parks, there are dozens of them, and the electricity only costs 10% more than at home with a 2.5kW granny charger.
Mentioning solutions is inherently unsafe. A lot of people just love dunking on them, which is easy, because no solution is perfect, and there are usually trade-offs. It's intellectually easy and emotionally rewarding to be always the one pointing out the issues (including issues with a solution).
Where I live, apartments, medical centres, commuter car parks, shopping centres and other parking spaces are installing charging stations. You only need enough for your next trip. The reality overtakes whatever debate there might be.
require every building to have one charger by 2028 and 50% by 2032 and 100% by 2036. there are turnkey solutions for landlords now so it's just a check they can write
Thank you! I started following this account called “CALL TO ACTION” but all they posted were alarmist headlines with absolutely no solutions or actions to take. I called them out on it. Stop f*cking screaming that the sky is falling, Chicken Little. We know! Let’s f*cking do something about it
Yes!! I dont even interact with doom and gloom or obvious rage bait like “tesla is bad, see” or “trump is bad, see” like, we already know!! They are talking in circles and wasting our time!
I'm in a condo building and not renting so it's different but literally all it took was someone saying "hey, we have like half a dozen EVs in the parking garage now, can we look into charging?" in an HOA meeting to get the ball rolling.
I have read so many opinions pieces about how A is terrible and a societal blight, and I've always left them at the end with a "and the fuck am I supposed to do with this knowledge now"?
It's another American "it's impossible" argument that evaporates when you look at existing systems overseas. In the Netherlands, densely populated urban apartment districts have charging points in on-street parking places. If we can have streetlights, we can have EV charging.
The problem isn't solutions. The problem is capitalism. We know solutions, they're almost always very simple. The problem is it's bad for the capitalist and therefore cannot happen.
In France, while the cost is preventing most apartment complexes to install a plug in each garage box/parking spot, people living in apartments can still get a plug via a third party company which install powerful hardware for EV. The cost is even paid in part by the government.
If we speak of political realities as if they are immovable *they will remain immovable* and I think it's high time that we start speaking of possibilities more than impediments.
In Zagreb, Croatia many people own a car and an apartment and park in the open. Even with a liberal mayor, there are more urgent things to fix like public transport (which is always more efficient than any car).
My apartment building is upgrading the parking lot plug ins to provide each unit with level 1 charging where before they were only good for each unit to have one block heater. This is huge. There are currently no EV’s or PHEV’s in the lot day to day but they’re doing it anyways.
Here in Singapore (where most people live in apartments, most of it being public housing) the government has invested heavily (through private companies) to set up EV charging infrastructure at such neighbourhood car parks (what you Americans call parking garages), precisely for this reason.
I'm in the UK and the situation is very similar. There is no practical barrier, only political. If it was possible to install street lights then it's possible to install car chargers.
People also have a tendency to latch on to their solution as THE solution. People can't just be wrong about how a system makes them FEEL, but they CAN be wrong about what part is the problem and they can be wrong about how to fix it.
It's absolutely a failure of imagination, but it's also by design. It's unlikely we'll have a solution like these battery swap stations because our corporations depend more on an individuals eventual battery failure since planned obsolescence is part of their business model
I live in a 275-unit complex. From what I can tell, without explicitly counting, we have at least 10 EVs. We have two public chargers. One person has a 120V plug near their spot they use. This is still plenty for now. I have not had to worry about charging for years.
The underground parking at the block of flats I live in upgraded its engine block heater sockets to single-phase 16 A 230 V. That is plenty of power to also charge EVs. Sockets for engine block heaters are common in Finland, so there is already some infrastructure in place.
FWIW, I lived in a city that had decent public transit while working in the suburbs, and found that taking transit would roughly double my commute time. Also, it was a free for all street parking situation where slow rollout of chargers created some conflicts as people competed for space.
Hi! I live in one of the densest cities in the world (Kolkata) and own a car despite disliking car dependency. So mostly, it's the comfort factor. Only the metro(subway) and a few buses/office shuttles here have AC. That alone makes public transport unviable for many in our normal weather. (1/n)
Apart from that, public transport is crappy if you have any sort of health issues. You basically expect to stand on buses/metros if you're traveling outside absolute dead times. Autorickshaws are very cramped and uncomfortable, especially if you have to sit in the front with the driver. (2/n)
And while a lot of people do end up relying on taxis/Ubers/etc rather than own a car, there's the usual issues (refusals, delays, etc) with taxis all over the world, with the added bonus they'll often refuse to turn on the AC so you're back to square one! Tho despite all this, IMO our public (3/n)
transport isn't all that bad; especially since autorickshaws act as mini-shuttles here rather than taxis like they do in other Indian cities. We do also have local trains, but those are _legendarily_ crowded all the time. Of course you'd think we can just improve the whole system, but budget(4/n)
Just makes that impossible practically, considering average poverty levels, and most investment goes to rich people stuff (metros, office buses, etc.)
I already typed way too much, but I know you and your followers are super interested in stuff like this, so hope it wasn't completely useless! (end)
Thank you for sharing! I did indeed find it interesting as one of his followers. :)
I've been carfree for 3 years now and use public transit, but I similarly have considered a car due to health reasons as it can be very vulnerable getting to/from appointments. I hope robots can bridge this someday.
Living in an apartment without a garage doesn't mean you live in a dense city.
Not sure how it works in China, but in Spain, apartments are the norm, even in towns like mine which has a population of ~14.500. And, based on an article I read, only 25% of homes in my provoince have acces to a garage.
I think this is a huge part of the discussion that is often left out - it's unsustainable for people in cities to all have cars. In these areas money would be much better spent on public transport and cycling infrastructure instead of EV charging.
As someone who lived in one of the most populated cities in the world, I can tell you that it's not fun to be in a public transport during rush hours.
You would rather comfortably sit in a traffic jam than be squeezed like a sardine by sweaty strangers twice a day 5 days a week.
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Also, the census defines an apartment as any building with two or more residences in it. So duplexes, converted single family homes, etc are counted.
Level 2 charging infrastructure is cheap. I am so tired of this world which says "well of *course* we install circuits in every single unit for stoves, dryers, water heaters and such but it's just too damn hard to do that in the parking lot"
So, maybe high speed charging could work as an intermediate solution?
It's very slow, but every car can do it. It just needs a level 1 portable EVSE. Which lots of cars come with (mine did, in fact).
- 110v x 12a = ~1.32kw
- 1.32kw/hr = ~4mi/hr
- 12hr * ~4mi/hr = 48mi/day
- 40mi/day = Avg US Daily Travel
It is not rocket science to run wires from a building to a parking lot. And even if there's an issue with building capacity or access to existing circuits is difficult, it is not rocket science to arrange a new service drop.
This might sound like crank nonsense but I think a large part of why we're in this mess is we're all too willing to discuss issues without mentioning solutions.
It's why I never simply say "people cannot charge at apartments" - that's a political reality, not a practical one.
Anyway, I think you're right and the obvious solution would be federal regulations. That's why we have handicapped parking spaces and food safety standards in spite of it not being profitable for capitalists.
If we're going to discuss solutions we're going to either need something like that fast charging tech or a total revamp of American capitalism. Which is more likely?
https://nonprofitaf.com/2019/04/solutions-privilege-how-privilege-shapes-the-expectations-of-solutions-and-why-its-bad-for-our-work-addressing-systemic-injustice/
Congress is supposed to make policy. If they don't, the system doesn't work anymore.
So, over time, the possible solutions get circumscribed, much like "the water god gets angry if you make a bridge."
I already typed way too much, but I know you and your followers are super interested in stuff like this, so hope it wasn't completely useless! (end)
I've been carfree for 3 years now and use public transit, but I similarly have considered a car due to health reasons as it can be very vulnerable getting to/from appointments. I hope robots can bridge this someday.
Not sure how it works in China, but in Spain, apartments are the norm, even in towns like mine which has a population of ~14.500. And, based on an article I read, only 25% of homes in my provoince have acces to a garage.
You would rather comfortably sit in a traffic jam than be squeezed like a sardine by sweaty strangers twice a day 5 days a week.