Since smearing everyone who even says the word "Palestine" as an antisemite has been horrifically successful in the US and Europe, probably she would have done worse.
Still would have been the right thing to do, of course.
lol she did campaign stops with Liz Chaney. She didn’t have her base in mind at all. The dems have been pulling right on the coattails of the republicans as they went further right.
They’re reliably useful idiots & gluttons for punishment, who enable & empower their executioners… from Communism to the Islamic Republic/IRG to the #IntifadaRevolution 🍉 🤡
Same. Or for even less. I’ve been listed sooo many times because , as it’s been explained to me numerously, it is categorically impossible to be a liberal and a Zionist. So I must be MAGA. That tells me they know nothing and aren’t interested in learning. So I made my own list. 😂
People will literally defend genocide over slightly criticizing the corrupt Democratic Party. Not voting for Holocaust Harris was the only moral thing to do. No one could ever shame me into being against genocide. What an upside down world we live in
libs cried "PURITY TEST!!!" over people objecting to genocide, but the real purity test here was libs refusing to budge on arming Israel, a position unpopular among democrats, and told all who objected “fuck off, we don’t need your votes. we’ll win without you and we’ll never appeal to you again."
kinda embarrassing how Kamala lost the popular vote to the dumbest man on the planet because of decisions she intentionally made. decisions libs still insist were a “masterful gambit”
this is how White Supremacy now works in the USA. Our propaganda conditions vulnerable minorities who don't understand they now support it, and we set them up as puppets to enforce White Supremacy while exploiting their status as a "minority"
No. Because she did say that, over and over, and a bunch of far left assclowns didn't believe her because they really don't care about saving Palestinian lives (or achieving progressive goals in general), they just care about performative outrage.
It’s ridiculous and what a sucker to post about people who kept saying ‘cease fire’ while every single supposed one was immediately followed by an escalation—that we provided the money, bombs and international cover for—along with Israeli leaders literally saying ‘fuck you, were not stopping’
Right, this is nothing though. “I will fight for a ceasefire” is literally the most muted possible anti-genocide position you possibly could take, especially when moderated even further by “the Jews were there first”, “they were forced to kill civilians”, “we are fully committed to Israel” and so on
That's literally what Biden said for 13 months, and he refused to use his leverage over Israel that Obama, Bush 2, and Reagan had all used before him in a matter of weeks.
So if Harris kept signaling nothing would change from Biden admin, why would we believe that this was anything but Biden fluff?
The Biden administration actually publicly denounced the protestors at Gaza land auctions that happened while he was in office. It seems your issue is rudeness and not being the kind of liar you’re ok with
I don’t think you can verify what’s going on in someone else’s head. In this just another term for virtue signaling? You sound like a conservative who can’t believe someone actually had feelings or empathy
1. She didn’t. You’re lying.
2. Post the stats about these alleged “far left” people. Provide evidence they exist and did what you said.
3. You do not know what “verifiable” or “fact” mean. What you meant is that you’re very sure of yourself, an unrelated emotional experience.
I'm so glad you asked! scotus locked conservative for a generation. Loss of abortion rights. loss of civil rights. loss of trans rights. loss of due process. loss of DEI. Loss of libraries. Erasure of black history. potential loss of social security / Medicare. I could go on but you get the point.
Also, not one of these is one of the things you claimed were verifiable fact.
Let me list back for you what you claimed was verifiable fact:
- Harris saying she’d stop the genocide
- far left people not caring about saving Palestinian lives
- far left people only caring about performative outrage
This isn’t a citation or an example. This is you listing unverified things.
See, “citation” is when you post the information where we can look up the source ourselves—because the word of a stranger is worthless, even though you feel like the main character—for a specific piece of information.
It was absolutely in her power to stop the US sending weapons to it, and to publicly denounce it, and to issue ultimatums to Bibi, and to distance us diplomatically from Israel. Those are all things the president can do.
She never got to be President. Partly because of the morons who preferred Trump out of spite. Trump is now talking about forcing Palestinians out of their country to live in other countries. Well done on your purity test!
American liberals who gave zero shits as their country facilitated a livestreamed genocide for a year are now having a cry because their brunch prices have gone up and it effects them personally, forgive me if I have limited sympathy for them
Yeah. I think we really underestimate just how many people still don’t understand Israel in those terms. Among people who pay any attention to politics and who weren’t just looking for their quad-annual excuse to not vote, Harris gave signals of policy change while riding a rhetorical line that kept
her from losing what I truly believe would have been millions of more votes from people who are not long-term engaged with politics and whose understanding of Israel is “they’re an ally and saying anything against them is what Nazis do”. We (and I do count myself among those to blame on this) have
not done nearly enough to message this issue to the normies and tend to forget that the world isn’t just the internet, and even the internet is much more fractured and fragmented than it used to be.
Also a bunch of TikTok propagandists couldn’t seem to wrap their head around how things could be
worse, and it seems like some small contingent also wanted the downfall of America but didn’t realize that that would mean themselves starving to death when their savings vanish so 🙃 I dont know if anyone has learned any lesson in either direction from all this though so whatever
She did say it. She wanted a ceasefire and a 2 state solution. She said so. A lot.
But she is a Black woman so racism and misogyny of ppl became an issue. You know, in the way you didn't hear her say on national television in multiple speeches and on the Dem platform what she wanted to do.
If the closest you have to a ceasefire is a genocide participant who's going to keep arming and funding that genocide, you're nowhere near a ceasefire you just have a comforting lie.
Why is it that telling Israel to stop killing Palestinians or we're going to stop giving you weapons is completely off the table and not even worth discussing?
Israel has definitively proven that "ceasefire" is a meaningless term. Biden had uncountable opportunities to flat out stop the genocide because Israel can't so much as take a piss without the U.S. giving them permission. Kamala gave zero indication she'd differ from Biden. Stop.
Selfish ideals like don't do genocide, don't support genocide, don't arm genocide, literally just fucking lie and say you'll stop the genocide so you win the election and then not do it.
Yes. Leftists would have come up with another reason to nor vote for her and Gaza had nothing to do with why the voters that actually mattered voted for Trump (inflation)
Not even talking about what is or isn't right - this thread specifically talked about how supporting Palestine would have won Dems the election which I think even the most ardent Palestinian supporter has to acknowledge is... unlikely.
You... can read, right? Your own poll says that less than half of the US is sympathetic toward Israel. And that number is largely skewed by Republicans, of whom 75% support Israel. But they were never going to vote for a black woman regardless.
The problem with Democrats trying to be the party of moderate Republicans is that progressives don't want to vote for moderate Republicans, and actual Republicans would rather vote for the real deal than the half-assed imitation.
Again, this thread is specifically about whether taking a pro-Palestine stance would have swung the election. Seeing how this would be playing to MAYBE a third of the electorate, that seems unlikely.
US Federal Election results November 2016.
US Federal Election results November 2024.
70 years of living in the American patriarchy full of mansplainers who know less than I do.
I mean, election results do not contain info on voter motivations, so I’m not sure you’ve got quite as much of an intellectual drop on me as you think you do.
How does this data show that misogyny was the only, or even the primary factor in play?
And it has equally nothing at all to do with the fact that NUMBERS OF VOTES ARE NOT INFORMATION ON VOTER MOTIVATION, any more than the number of various kinds of cars sold tells us why people bought them.
I would love to, but it has literally nothing to do with the fact that both Harris and Clinton promised the American people scraps instead of hope, and that Donald Trump didn’t win either time, they actively lost by treating the American voter like a detestable imbecile.
Let's also not forget dem inaction , a refusal to put up something to vote for instead of the 30 year celebration of strategy "vote for us or get hitler"
Yeah lots of Americans say that to us. You think strategic voting only happens in the US? We do it here all the time because we have more than two parties. But thanks for the clever comment.
Maybe this, maybe that.
What it all comes down to is that millions of Americans refused to vote for a NORMAL politician, for whatever reasons they told themselves, and therefore let someone they KNEW was racist rapist fascist and a moron.
Do you think trump would be in power if many idiots hadn't decided that a one (foreign) issue was worth throwing their country under the authoritarian bus?
...and issue that has been occurring long before most of them were born?
Also, you aren't qualified to call it genocide, but you did anyway🙄
Unpopular?
Trump won and he virtually telegraphed he would do whatever nerltnyahoo wanted!
Your position may have tipped the balance on the left, but it certainly isn't a popular one
Also, the election wasn't about one issue abroad, now it's become ALL issues abroad and Palestine will get forgotten
Do you think you save Palestinians by helping a racist felon into the Whitehouse?
..and don't give me any cry baby bullshit about Kamalas campaign offending you, when you grow up, you realise we ALL have to eat our greens sometimes. 🙄
agree. i don’t get why so many idiots thought protecting the right wing in israel was worth fighting for and decided to throw the us under the authoritarian bus to assist the israeli fascist
americans leaders, particularly democrats on this issue, are so fucked up; “the right wing fascist in israel is good, but right wing fascism in the us is bad”
The goal was to push Kamala and the Dems I to supporting an arms embargo on a genocidal state - a policy that is not only historically and morally correct, but one that was supported by 70% of the country during the election.
Not adjusting her policy to represent the people was a massive error.
2023 was the worst year for Israel killing Palestinian children..before Oct 7th. October 7th didn't happen in a vacuum, those who pretend it did are the ones being hysterical and exaggerating. Everyone but Biden apologists and Israel are calling it a genocide, and history will scorn both.
What has happened in Gaza meets all the criteria for genocide.
Clearly you suffer from the syndrome: " it can't be genocide if it's been done by people I support".
Seek help
What are your legal qualifications Veronica? How many genocide cases have you tried before? How much evidence have you seen? And WHO exactly committed genocide?
You can't hold the country to account, so please tell me the individuals that are guilty of genocide...
Or shut up because you don't know
Also sidenote, I'm not sure why you think we should feel less empathy for people just because they're "foreign". From my perspective it sounds like your heart is severely lacking in love and compassion, and to that I can only feel sorry for you.
"The court adopted “provisional measures,” or binding orders, that include requiring Israel to prevent genocide against Palestinians in Gaza"
I guess you don't have a red line that Israel can cross, like your hero Biden.
There's an arrest warrant out for Netanyahu (and his cronies) that's been out since before the election and Biden/Schumer invited him to speak to Congress after that to give their full-throated defense. Guess you support fugitives of international justice.
I regret to inform you that the country has always been shitty and racist. the issue here is that the harris campaign decided to alienate the half of the electorate who is not racist in order to appeal to the racists
well for one thing we didn't elect her. for another the continued endorsement of genocide presents a significant barrier to beating the "not racist" allegations
Palestinian Americans were watching family members murdered on a daily basis, and the current admin was supplying the weapons to the murderers. I understand why they voted or did not vote however they did
Hypothetical. If Biden was supplying Russia and your family was Ukrainian, how would you feel?
The US supplies weapons to israel as an ally. Not specifically to murder, you understand that right?
You understand that a gun salesman isn't responsible for a legal gun owner that kills his wife, you understand that, right?
Then we can talk 'hypotheticals' about allies and adversaries.
If the legal gun owner tells you "Im going to use this gun to kill my wife", and his wife begged you not to give him the gum, and then you still give him the gun, and he kills his wife, what then?
THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ELECTION OF OUR LIFETIME SAYS THE POLITICAL PARTY THAT DID NOTHING TO STOP THE SLOW SHIFT INTO FASCISM FOR LITERALLY DECADES
Didn’t shut down GITMO. Didn’t disband ICE. Didn’t do shit to touch any of the ur-fascist police state measures put in place by W. Just sat there and did drone strikes and was replaced by Trump. I mean how do you not enable fascism if that’s what bookends your entire administration?
Neoliberal economics are rooted in fascist developments that were retained in Western Europe in the post-WW2 era, not rejected outright as they should have been. If you don’t understand that you need to go back to school and start over from the beginning
if she just said that trans people cities and immigrants need a little kindness instead of 'obey the law'. But as itwas it was just one human rights flub after the other andthey giot worse and worse
I don’t think I ever heard Russia or Ukraine mentioned either, frankly.
Very few Americans vote on foreign policy, and outside of college campuses most Americans (unfortunately) don’t care about the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.
I think so. I think focusing on the humanity as opposed to hamas is important. It is bizarre to me that there is so much hatred towards women and children and old men just trying to survive in a nation without a nation. No way do I support hamas, but there was no oth viable option in Pal. govt
I've never seen so many people take what was their decision (who to vote for) and blame the candidate for 'making' them vote for someone else.
Phrased differently: Do you think we'd still be here if voters would have just picked the best candidate between the two who could possibly win?
True, and in that case, we deserve what we get, because voters balked at making the truly uncomfortable choice, and went ahead with their notion of “free choice”.
There was no choice. Not for the avg peon like you and me.
I understand "not voting for genocide", but that vote wasn't on the table. There was no anti-genocide choice, no anti-genocide candidate. It was him or her, and the non-voters made the choice to let him win. There was no secret third outcome to the election where the genocide stopped.
Not passing judgement, by the way, just stating the facts of how it all shook out and why. People made their choices with full knowledge of what it would lead to, and here we are.
it's cause you've abandoned humanity for nationality and personal safety. people that can't understand the redline of genocide do not deserve to be in power and that is why democrats have failed to meet the moment in stopping this coup. they are unequivocally unprepared to fight bad actors in power.
If millions of voters had decided to vote for the genocidal harpy instead of the genocidal pig fucker, we'd have a genocidal harpy supplying weapons to Israel instead of a genocidal pig fucker supplying weapons to Israel.
But if we're talking hypothetical scenarios, I'd much rather go with the one where millions of voters had decided to vote for one of the several progressive candidates who *weren't* aiding and abetting a genocide. In which case Trump wouldn't have won, *and* we wouldn't be arming a genocide.
So explain what exactly in Trump’s history in the Mid East told you his stance was better? He supported even more genocide and Israeli incursion historically. Votes for him were a flex sans historical review or thoughtfulness. Neither admin has been good, but he was & is by far the worst of the 2.
This is extreme loser shit. You were uncritical of your candidate’s stance on genocide. You should have been loudly critical of her. Maybe she would have listened. Maybe she would have won.
You’ll never get them
to own their mistake. They are just as bad as MAGA. They’re low information voters who want to burn it all down. They’ve done fuck all to help anyone in Gaza.
I had a Dem literally tell me votes were owed lmao. That was before the election. Now he wants everyone to literally suffer and die for not handing over their owed votes.
I'm simply telling you about something that happened to me and which left me profoundly disturbed.
I mean, I know that I should be more accepting of people's proclivities, but it disturbed me a bit, ngl
I agree. At the very least, people need to stop shaming each other for how they vote. Like, yes your vote is your voice. We can't shame people into voting all the same way, and we literally cannot force people to vote how we want either. We CAN push candidates to follow what the voters want though!
In a democracy, do voters work for candidates or do candidates have to earn votes? Why even vote if they're owed? Why not just tally up the number of party registrations and declare a winner that way?
Yes. This is about right. I do not cast blame on anyone who couldn’t vote for Kamala. I think there was a chance she was going to divert from the Biden position but we will never know.
I voted for her, but the more time goes on the more I feel like the people who abstained were "correct." The deep moral rot of a party that launders genocide could never meet this moment
Mm, but if you’ll stop pretending to be stupid for a second, you’ll recall that my question wasn’t “which candidate is morally superior,” it was “how are things different in Gaza,” which you have barely attempted to answer—I suspect because I’m leading you to the uncomfortable answer “they aren’t.”
i almost quoted this this morning and said "would we be here if RBG had retired when she was asked?" but i didn't want to deal with my mentions clogged up for 20 hours
You think it would’ve been better if they hadn’t? If they didn’t campaign at all? If they didn’t encourage voters down the ballot? If Republicans had won 60 Senate seats instead of 53?
idk if just taking a stand against the genocide alone would've been enough
she was basically running as a Republican on every single issue and, unsurprisingly, that did little to motivate Democratic voters and definitely didn't motivate Independents
The K-hive is comprised of feckless idiots who are incapable of learning, or people who are just rabid racists who think a genocide is a worthy price to pay for brunch. None of them will ever admit that there should have been a better candidate
Ok, so 1) yall asked her to demand a ceasefire, she & Biden brokered one, but it wasn’t enough for you. 2) she literally said she had a commitment to peace. 3) the other guy promised to wipe Palestine out of existence. You alienated yourself, racist.
You should have voted even if you are frustrated. I have been frustrated by the plight of Palestine for decades. Great minds have tried to solve it. When you reduce it to black & white it looks easy. When you add people and centuries of grudges, you find it isn't easy,you helped destroy us, thanks
Maybe the fact that Netanyahu was clearly backing Trump and attempting to make Biden look bad should have been a clear signal that unconditionally supporting anything he did was a poor political move.
what are you talking about? people spent loads of time trying to push harris to adopt policies that would've energised & inspired voters to turn up for her. she ignored it all & spent her time going after so-called moderate republicans instead of the people she could have easily gotten to show up.
elections are when you berate the electorate about how you're the lesser of two evils while telling them you don't care about their demands instead of motivating them to vote with some vision of a better future, right? it's worked out for you so far!
As a leftist who voted for her in PA (and encouraged others too also):
I'm positive we would not be here if she took the stance that she would do it differently than Joe and end the genocide. Joe continuing what he was doing while she said she wouldn't change anything was the end. Cooked. Done.
I do agree with this. She was at a disadvantage having to jump in so late and without a primary. Not much time and not having the primary to help gauge voter opinions hurt them. But also, we know now that their internal polling never had them ahead, so they knew and changed nothing. Which sucks.
I think Biden's presidency was won on the unspoken promise that he would step down in time for a primary. I think Harris inherited his blame and unfortunately doubled down on it by saying she wouldn't do anything differently.
I think people wanted a choice, regardless of how poor the options were.
You know exit polling doesnt include the opinions of non-voters? Which is why Kamala lost? Exit polling is not helpful in this situation. Exit polling also only includes the people who showed up in person.
Just about every opinion poll suggests that Americans support Israel a lot more than Palestine, despite a recent trend for this grap to narrow - https://news.gallup.com/poll/657404/...
Then there's the fact that Palestine supporters tend to be young, and young people don't vote.
Your links seem to indicate that Palestine has strong support *amongst Democrats*, which is not really something I'd dispute. The Slate poll points out that support for Palestine amongst the American public more broadly is a "record high" 31%
Cool. And that includes solid Republican voters who are notably extremely loyal to their base would never vote for a Democrat for president. For stategists trying to help Kamala win, those voters were not their target. Or they should not have been.
I'm not saying trying to win pro-Israel votes was the way to go, but I am saying that chasing the preferences of what's *generously* a third of the electorate probably wasn't some hidden winning strategy Kamala just didn't think of.
It's not an opinion. Approximately zero people voted dispositively on Palestine, nor have they for 50 decades. That wasn't going to change in a year. The vast majority of Americans, especially in exurbs and rural areas that determine the composition of Congress, think Israel is biblically entitled
to wipe out "the Amalekites". What people did vote on was racism, sexism, and homophobia, and the media discourse aside just gave them pretext to do so without actually presenting as such.
Literally, if you are using EXIT POLLING (aka only includes people who voted in person, does not inclued by mail voters or people who did not vote) to say my OPINION is wrong. Here you go, a collection of articles supporting my opinion:
Currently they're being tariff'd 17% by the United States, and their lifeline (the us) is cratering economically. Arguably they are doing worse under trump than biden
We'd be just where we were before Trump won, namely: watching global heating easily surpass a 2C increase while genocide and mass deportations rage on and liberals happily watch their mutual funds expand in value. And people of conscience would still be just as pissed about it.
"We should move further to the right to appeal to Republicans that don't like Trump! Fuck, they still like us less than Trump AND we alienated half the left! It's the left's fault we lost!"
It would have changed nothing. Erin McClelland made opposition to the genocide central to her statewide campaign for PA treasurer against the GOP Bibi stooge & she lost worse than Harris. Harris should have broken w/Biden but electorally didn’t make a difference.
Indeed! But in 2016 & 2024 many Dems won office in states Hillary & Harris lost--including PA!--& yet despite many pro-Palestine protests, McClelland winning a massive upset primary partially on divesting PA $ from Israel & explicitly battling her GOP opponent on the issue of the genocide, she lost.
The problem with Adolf Hitler was that he failed to explain to the German people that he really wanted to pursue progressive policy, but it was electorally a dead end so he had to compromise with lebensraum and the shoah
Luckily today we have Kamala Harris and Dem analysts to do the job right
I do not think we would be here if she had come out as anti-genocide. I base this on polling data showing her having a huge lead if only she would come out against the genocide, and from my personal experience with canvassing on the issue specifically. Harris turned dem-voters into non-voters.
Good lord, I can smell your desperate panic sweat through the phone. 😅
Yes, a poll of how people in the US felt about voting for the American President. The only relevant population in the universe. A list of people whose opinion it also is, who are not me.
I honestly don’t think it took away that many votes. The protests I saw for free Palestine during election season were a couple hundred at best. They wouldn’t have voted for her one way or another. It’s just liberal and centrists way to blame the left again.
Comments
Still would have been the right thing to do, of course.
If the DNC had allowed Rashida Tlaib or any prominent Palestinian to speak at the Convention-- just that small thing-- I would've considered voting.
But unapologetic, unchallenged genocide was a deal-breaker for me.
Thats why Dems are moving to the center, because the left FRINGE is, to put it mildly, completely unreliable.
kinda embarrassing how Kamala lost the popular vote to the dumbest man on the planet because of decisions she intentionally made. decisions libs still insist were a “masterful gambit”
http://www.rarre.org/documents/roy/Do%20turkeys%20enjoy%20thanksgiving.pdf
And that's a verifiable fact.
lmao
But again, your performative outrage is noted.
So if Harris kept signaling nothing would change from Biden admin, why would we believe that this was anything but Biden fluff?
2. Post the stats about these alleged “far left” people. Provide evidence they exist and did what you said.
3. You do not know what “verifiable” or “fact” mean. What you meant is that you’re very sure of yourself, an unrelated emotional experience.
Let me list back for you what you claimed was verifiable fact:
- Harris saying she’d stop the genocide
- far left people not caring about saving Palestinian lives
- far left people only caring about performative outrage
See, “citation” is when you post the information where we can look up the source ourselves—because the word of a stranger is worthless, even though you feel like the main character—for a specific piece of information.
Also a bunch of TikTok propagandists couldn’t seem to wrap their head around how things could be
But she is a Black woman so racism and misogyny of ppl became an issue. You know, in the way you didn't hear her say on national television in multiple speeches and on the Dem platform what she wanted to do.
Also, probably not. Your definition of "everyone" is quite expansive and statistically unsound.
Glad you still get to gloat, though. Happy for you.
Then there's the fact that Palestine supporters tend to be yound, and young people don't vote.
Many people would have been persuaded to support her and canvas had she changed on genocide.
She chose to chase non votes
Or are they compassionate enough to realize that genocide is bad?
US Federal Election results November 2024.
70 years of living in the American patriarchy full of mansplainers who know less than I do.
How does this data show that misogyny was the only, or even the primary factor in play?
Think, god dammit. Stop reacting and THINK.
It’s their fault.
For racism, sexism, and to punish others.
Why didn't you vote for them? Are you sexist?
What it all comes down to is that millions of Americans refused to vote for a NORMAL politician, for whatever reasons they told themselves, and therefore let someone they KNEW was racist rapist fascist and a moron.
...and issue that has been occurring long before most of them were born?
Also, you aren't qualified to call it genocide, but you did anyway🙄
Are Palesrinians better off today?
No.
If the left had united then Kamala would be working with a ceasefire. As opposed to trump who is actively undermining it.
It's like 'what america does', it's just that THIS time, you saw the results on tictoc.
If you had thought about it for a moment, a step in the right direction is better than a leap into the abyss. 🤦♂️
Kamala definitely wasn't planning ethnic cleansing, but we now we have someone who is.
....but the campaign eh?
Trump won and he virtually telegraphed he would do whatever nerltnyahoo wanted!
Your position may have tipped the balance on the left, but it certainly isn't a popular one
Also, the election wasn't about one issue abroad, now it's become ALL issues abroad and Palestine will get forgotten
so basically what Biden was doing, but rude about it
Maybe you remember it differently, because you were all upset an all.
Now will that get a) better or b) worse with a felon in the Whitehouse who sees all people as commdified tenants?
It's not a nuanced or complicated issue.
Do you think you save Palestinians by helping a racist felon into the Whitehouse?
..and don't give me any cry baby bullshit about Kamalas campaign offending you, when you grow up, you realise we ALL have to eat our greens sometimes. 🙄
could have stopped it in its tracks but it wasn’t your problem. now it is.
Not adjusting her policy to represent the people was a massive error.
You see, that's you're problem right there.
Hysteria and exaggeration.
Do you even know what genocide is?? A genocidal state would need to have committed at least one genocide.
Morally correct?
So what morals tell you to drop your allies moments after they're attacked? 🤔
It’s the UN.
It's like taking the word of the court usher that they reckon this will result in a guilty verdict.
The UN have been foolish in prejudicing any trial, but that's the UN for you.
Just admit you’re pro genocide and be done with it.
Genocides only end in one of exactly two ways: they are stopped from the outside, or they succeed in eradication.
So we can’t call Israel a genocidal state until they’ve actually finished killing all the Palestinians? Is that your point here?
Maybe you should look into previous genocides, and what occurred, before you start making bold claims the ICJ is clearly reluctant to support.
Meanwhile, the actions of some has resulted in Trump Riviera🤦♂️
Or this one? https://web.archive.org/web/20250328063126/https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/03/1147976
Or this one? https://web.archive.org/web/20241105122046/https://press.un.org/en/2024/gapal1473.doc.htm
Or just opening your eyes and viewing what’s happening?
Do you think that's 'genocide'?
Have a think dumbo.
Worst defence ever.
Over 100,000 civilians were killed in Iraq.
You screaming genocide there?
'Looks like' eh? Do you do that with every legal case?
'Looks like a murder to me', then you get angry and confused when a manslaughter verdict is returned.🙄
Clearly you suffer from the syndrome: " it can't be genocide if it's been done by people I support".
Seek help
You can't hold the country to account, so please tell me the individuals that are guilty of genocide...
Or shut up because you don't know
Show me, don't just rely on 'what someone told you'.
It would be pretty impressive as all the evidence hasn't been collected yet.🤔
...but please do prove me wrong.
(P.s. don't confuse genocide with war crimes babe)
Also sidenote, I'm not sure why you think we should feel less empathy for people just because they're "foreign". From my perspective it sounds like your heart is severely lacking in love and compassion, and to that I can only feel sorry for you.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/02/26/israel-not-complying-world-court-order-genocide-case
Does not mention genocide.
You feel sorry for me?? I guess ignorance does have its advantages.
You can have another go, free of charge.
I guess you don't have a red line that Israel can cross, like your hero Biden.
The goal was 'show me the ICJ has concluded genocide' and that hasn't changed.
Maybe you're playing rugby which is why you keep skying it over the bar and taking victory laps?
Do you all have a great difficulty understanding the basic difference between a judgement and an OPINION?
No wonder you all get caught by simple propaganda, you morons will believe ANYTHING 🤣
Towers of Babel.
Are you usually this prejudicial? Or is this an exception because you saw the horrors on tictoc?
I guess your presumption that I 'support genocide' answers that fully 🤦♂️
Also, an arrest warrant for a leader doesn't make a country guilty of their acts.
Otherwise Germans would all be in prison right now, or hung, like a genocide if you want.
When the country started talking bogus bullshit, the best thing was to not hurt their feelings?
Electorate needs to grow up dear, not wallow in self pity and nationalism.
I really don't think that is a sign of a racist party.
I don't think it was half of the electorate, but it possibly was enough to make the difference.
You think being more racist is the answer?
Hypothetical. If Biden was supplying Russia and your family was Ukrainian, how would you feel?
You understand that a gun salesman isn't responsible for a legal gun owner that kills his wife, you understand that, right?
Then we can talk 'hypotheticals' about allies and adversaries.
You got the transcripts? Or is that how you think it went down in your imagination?
I mean if you got that evidence, I say get it to the ICJ TODAY!
We haven't even started on what the wife did, you know, mitigation...🙄
And funny you bring up the ICJ. The US might not be in trouble for giving them the weapons, but Israel is hella in trouble for how they have used them. Since long before the election.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/09/ngos-call-on-all-un-member-states-to-adhere-to-the-icj-advisory-opinion-on-the-unlawfulness-of-israels-occupation/
Wow, that's a new take.
You'll have to put some details on that one.
Fuck me you need to read more pal.
'Just sat there and did drone srrikes'
Ffs, grow up.
Biden/Harris could have stopped this in Oct 8th, 2023... and didn't, why would she do something different?
I never heard Gaza or Israel mentioned once.
Every voter who told me they weren’t voting for her cited either the economy or immigration.
Very few Americans vote on foreign policy, and outside of college campuses most Americans (unfortunately) don’t care about the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.
Also, her policies on immigration were shit, so nice self-own.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/08/09/harris-promises-to-go-tough-on-border-security-00173485
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/americas/gazans-think-us-election-outcome-unlikely-to-change-regional-situation/3385252
Phrased differently: Do you think we'd still be here if voters would have just picked the best candidate between the two who could possibly win?
Buyer’s remorse I guess, but no backsies no refunds, even with receipts!
There was no choice. Not for the avg peon like you and me.
Maybe if Dems earned those votes by NOT DOING A FUCKIN GENOCIDE we wouldn't be here.
Congrats on helping with Trump Tower Gaza's construction.
GFY 🖕
Because you bad a chance to have a say and said no.
2. Things are worse because Dems refused to stop slaughtering people in a genocide and adopted a hawkish position on our military and immigration.
3. You never cared. You just wanted your team to win.
We pressured Dems to stop the genocide as it is our red line. They refused. We didn't vote for them. They lost.
FAFO
But you lot chose to make this election about a foreign governments actions in regards to ANOTHER government/terrorist organizations actions.
to own their mistake. They are just as bad as MAGA. They’re low information voters who want to burn it all down. They’ve done fuck all to help anyone in Gaza.
You refused to hold them accountable to earn votes.
This is on you and your party, not us.
Shocker
I mean, I know that I should be more accepting of people's proclivities, but it disturbed me a bit, ngl
Y'all have too passive a view of what your vote does and your responsibilities as a member of the electorate.
The problem is, most of you want the government to genocide, or at the very least you are ambivalent about it.
You don't get to blame me for you being evil.
So now what? Lmao surely the candidate has responsibility for driving out voters who vote for them, and that responsibility is not with the voters.
Genocide is my red line.
Go fuck yourself.
Biden Harris slaughtered 300,000
Trump doesn’t want them dead, he just wants them deported. He actually demanded ceasefire before his inauguration. Genocide by non violent means.
It’s reprehensible that her cult supporters fault people for voting their conscience.
What’s different in Gaza? As in, what material condition has changed?
“Kamala Harris said” and “Donald Trump said” are not material conditions.
it would have been a slam dunk if she let walz off the leash too
she was basically running as a Republican on every single issue and, unsurprisingly, that did little to motivate Democratic voters and definitely didn't motivate Independents
her entire platform was at fault; not just Gaza
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/biden-voters-passed-kamala-harris-because-gaza-new-poll-shows
The people upset about genocide were told nothing would change. How many didn't bother to vote?
Both were preferred
I'm positive we would not be here if she took the stance that she would do it differently than Joe and end the genocide. Joe continuing what he was doing while she said she wouldn't change anything was the end. Cooked. Done.
I think she just didn't have enough time, because Biden pulled out too late.
A lot of Americans don't know who the vice president is. This is why proper primaries are important.
An interesting vox article interviewing Harris' own analytical team suggested that Harris would have lost bigger if more people showed up.
I think people wanted a choice, regardless of how poor the options were.
But yea, I agree with all of this.
Then there's the fact that Palestine supporters tend to be young, and young people don't vote.
Here are some other ones that show what you are saying is not quite accurate.
https://www.pewresearch.org/2024/03/21/views-of-the-u-s-role-in-the-israel-hamas-war/
https://mondoweiss.net/2025/02/poll-just-9-of-democrats-sympathize-with-the-israelis-more-than-the-palestinians/
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2024/08/kamala-harris-dnc-israel-palestine-polls-voters-ceasefire-arms.html
Anyway, corrected link - https://news.gallup.com/poll/657404/less-half-sympathetic-toward-israelis.aspx
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/new-poll-shows-gaza-conflict-a-key-factor-in-kamala-harris-defeat-after-ceasefire-deal/ar-AA1xjvCn
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/how-anger-over-the-war-in-gaza-may-have-shaped-some-voters-choices-in-the-election
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article298600563.html
https://www.imeupolicyproject.org/postelection-polling
https://www.jta.org/2024/11/06/israel/many-israelis-are-celebrating-trumps-win-seeing-him-as-more-likely-to-back-their-country
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/07/25/politics/harris-netanyahu-israel-hamas-ceasefire
Luckily today we have Kamala Harris and Dem analysts to do the job right
This happens less when you actually know things, instead of your whole worldview being based on snideness and vibes.
Yes, a poll of how people in the US felt about voting for the American President. The only relevant population in the universe. A list of people whose opinion it also is, who are not me.
Your mom drank, didn’t she hun?