I actually don’t know if they are capable of real guilt or self awareness. They may realize that their story is foolish and they are being found out … but that is not guilt.
“DHS sent me to the border to see the separations for myself — to try to make me more compassionate — but it didn’t work.” - Katie Miller, former def press sec under Trump
They do. They hate their guilt far more than they hate the wrongs they’ve committed, because a good person can admit to a mistake, but a perfect person ceases to exist in the face of a mistake. Mistakes are forbidden to the chronically self-important.
I'm not sure I'd agree, maybe for some not too far gone.
But in the end they become true believers of their justifying narratives. There's no guilt, they're convinced they're right.
I was a journalism major at University decades ago. One of the professors said that writing is something that can be learned. When I read the brilliance of Coates I wonder can that really be learned or is that ability a gift from God.
You are correct. You will also like the writings of Isabel Wilkerson, especially “Caste.” Both writers have a deep understanding of race and injustice in the USA.
You mean like the time he admitted on live tv if he had the ability he would have taken part in the violent slaughter of Jews on October 7th? Like that ?
Reminder that some conservatives vote Democrat on Election Day and pretend that justifies their commitment to an unjust world on all the other days of the year.
Love Ta-Nehisi Coates and I think that his words ring very true for many. But it's very bold of him to assume that everyone has guilt. There are rare creatures that aren't encumbered by it and they're just as dangerous as they sound.
I agree. If there was any guilt, then some form of restitution or regret would be offer and acknowledged. They would admit wrongdoing. This is who they are and they believe they are right.
The mistake is in thinking it's a productive guilt working towards remorse. It isn't. Sometimes guilt manifests as projection, and a false narrative of victimhood to justify cruelty. Sometimes it manifests as paper thin justifications and dehumanization of your victims to make you seem less evil.
I think one of my favorite insights I read from God knows where and went something along the lines of "the very rich have far more in common with the very poor than the people in the middle."
Some antisocial people torch their relationships and get nothing while others get everything.
Here’s the thing about toxic shame. It forces people to deny their shortcomings. They would be so overwhelmed by the sudden release of decades of untold wrongs, it would destroy their entire lives.
Despite being fully aware of all their frailty, a narcissist must never apologize.
I think that it looks like the narcissist is immune to shame, but actually he's constantly immersed in overwhelming shame. The effect looks similar, but simple shamelessness doesn't explain the compulsion to eradicate virtue and destroy whatever he can't control.
Everybody who has climbed the ladder using violence, sooner or later understands, that he will not be powerful forever, that enemies who are just like him will get him sooner or later, and that words can be more powerful that weapons.
What "normal" people often fail to realize about people in ravenous positions of profit/power is that they're psychopaths and lack the ability to feel empathy for others. There's only one way to deal with people like that and it doesn't involve encouraging them to feel for others.
Oh no, plunder is absolutely the best word. The only aspect I meant was fiction was the part where they feel guilt as they look into the eyes of those they’ve plundered.
It may not be guilt that drives them, but folks will create narratives and moral justifications to set themselves up as the good guy. Very few people consider themselves evil, so if they’re avoiding guilt it’s by getting high on their own supply.
I don't think it's always about guilt, though. We underestimate just how soulless some of these people are. Narratives are about control. They're about getting people to accept the plunder peacefully so they can keep doing it. Getting away with it is far more important to them than alleviating guilt
Do they believe they are 'getting away with' something or rightly justified to do it? They attempt considerable justification, supported by their 'scholarship', their Bible, their belief in their supremacy. They don't believe they are getting away with it - they think they are owed it.
Some of them are that aware, sure - but the entitlement is ingrained. I don't know that people that entitled are reflective enough to recognize or care that others disagree.
Oh some of them are straight up delusional; they believe their actions are ordained by the almighty. Others just use religion as another tool to control people, but their true belief lies with the almighty dollar
If that were so, then wouldn't those who get away with it be happy? Trump and his sycophants are miserable. They live in fear, just like Antebellum slaveholders did. Their narratives are meant to convince themselves that they're not the bad guys.
I'm sorry, you believe these people aren't... happy? Trump's going to spend the next 4 years golfing, hawking shitty merch, and trying his damnedest to bang every hot blonde he pulls from Fox News to fill his staff. He's happy. (Or whatever pale emotion it is that he comprehends as happiness)
He's also going to wipe his ass with the constitution the second he's inaugurated, because at this point he pretty much can! He's never leaving! So there's that.
I guess what I'm getting at is, good parasites don't let go. If you can't call it happiness, it's just that they've found a host they can suck dry, and will for as long as possible. It's just what they do.
You answered it yourself - this sort of person feels only a pale imitation of happiness. They don't love anyone or anything. They demand outrageously obsequious deference and obscene wealth and none of it is ever enough. And that misery is the reason for their sadism.
It's more comforting for all of us to think the universe bows toward justice and that even those who are successful in evil will be defeated by their own humanity, but it's not true. They have no shame, and they don't need to as long as their wealth and power insulates them.
I'm not sure it's guilt so much as cost-consciousness. Words are cheap, and convincing people that the yoke they wear is good for them makes the entire premise operate more efficiently.
I agree. When I started reading, " Between the World and Me", I had to put it down for a few weeks because of the way that he described the violence that he faced growing up in Baltimore.
And then there is the orange stain who is incapable of remorse or guilt. He has no concept of conscience! How we have allowed this to happen is a disgrace!
This perfectly describes the British Royal Family's 1000 year history. Distant descendants of the ultimate victors of ancient gang warfare who then disguised their depravity with layers of cultural deceipt and economic coercion and corruption.
It needs to be understood, that many people have no empathy for others. They feel nothing for anyone around them. It is difficult to accept when you are someone who feels for other people, but that is the truth. Sociopaths like Trump have no feelings for anyone. There is no guilt for them.
Indeed, his words are eloquent but I have learned through hard experience that there are, indeed, people who do not feel guilt for their actions and recent historical events also tell us that, even when confronted, there are those who feel no need to defend themselves but, in fact, only double down.
All oppressive people are not sociopats. Regular, not mentally ill human beings are perfectly capable of unfathomable cruelty. Everybody who owned a slave in the Antebellum South wasn't a sociopath.
People with no morality or conscience don't care. They do F**K and then refuse to let the victim get an abortion. The MAGA cult has more than its share. Women's rights have been downgraded, what about the men who raped them? NO. punishment. Men have more rights than women. I don't agree.
Great writing, but he obviously wasn’t writing about the unethical minions who will soon be in the Oval Office and destroying what vestiges of democracy remain.
Is this about Elon Musk‘s “DOGE“ purporting to be about “government waste” but is actually about destroying our government’s ability to protect us from the billionaires and big corporations that drain our wealth, impoverish us, ruin our environment, destroy our climate, and shatter our democracy?
For reference, this is Coates referring to the slaver and violently racist anthropologist Josiah Nott, who attempted to justify slavery through pseudo-scholarship. But it could easily apply to powerful men of our day.
I would rather obtain my “reference” by actually READING the book. Maybe we could advocate for that instead of “CliffsNotes.” Btw, the book is so good, I’m reading it like an “Italian dinner,” slow and satisfying. Giving every paragraph the attention, mentally, emotionally, digesting “The Message.”
My first reaction to reading this passage was to make a connection in the recent UHC CEO murder. The "story" in the passage is the "defend" piece. I understood the "deny" part, but not the defend so well. So this wisdom and insight is timeless no doubt. I see most reactions were evil people don't
Feel remorse or empathy or bother making up a story. Also true to the point thst I think what separates us most within our species is not skin color, gender, etc, but the ability to show empathy to our fellow human beings. A huge difference between a maga and a liberal is empathy.
This theory no longer applies to our society, and never has since the 70's and the Looking Out for #1 / Screw Them Before They Screw You mindset took over (and in which our President-elect got his start).
Were that passage true. It makes us feel there is still some humanity in these inhuman monsters. But there ain't. They're sociopaths. Incapable of any regret, emotion or conscience.
This disregards the fact that many who wield such violence are psychopaths and incapable of feeling guilt or remorse, They can kill, torture and order executions without the slightest consideration because they are incapable of empathy or compassion and are unaffected by the plight of their victims!
They will NEVER meet the eyes of their victims. The story that they tell themselves is that they are Gods, and we are expendable drones, workers, multipliers, consumers, and producers of THEIR wealth.
All you people replying to Other everyone this quote is about, you've taken the first step to being fascists. Do better, recognize the potential for good or evil thay exists in everyone
That's the reason for the dehumanising language they use that makes their victims (us) lesser beings who therefore are just getting what they and other animals deserve.
Sounds like a sociopathy scale to me. Some 'plunderers' as he puts it seem to have no impulse to make any pretenses about their villainy (see human excrement & felon Martin Shkreli)
I always thought wielding words was more of an effort to pacify the people being exploited (or those who might be sympathetic to them), because you are done if the masses align against you.
Also, some truly believe they are justified and just want to be clear about their position. I doubt many...
use words primarily to rationalize away their guilt.
I also think that in some cases there is just disagreement about whether "violence" has actually occurred, and the words are meant to express why the person with power thinks they haven't done wrong. (obv not applicable to slavery).
I like to think of the way PETA describes research involving animals vs the way researchers do. Some researchers are empathetic to animals while others are not, but they all believe what they are doing serves a greater purpose and they generally seek to minimize harm. PETA's just like "KILLER SCUM!"
I don't read as much as I should but him and Cormac McCarthy are the two authors where it feels like i have to pause and think after reading a page and, again, after finishing the chapter. It's a beautiful and exhaustive exercise.
This is one of things I love most about Bluesky - without fail I find smart people talking about smart books they have read and I get to add them to my list. #booksky
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But in the end they become true believers of their justifying narratives. There's no guilt, they're convinced they're right.
Kill your idols, they’re all bad
I know it would have disrupted the narrative but "late" hardly seems like the right descriptor
personally charitable, but point out how their values are reflected in the people/policiez they empower… plutocracy/racism, a lifelong sexual abuser.
They get very angry because their self image as a good person cannot stand against the reality of their values in action
Now they are just wolves, and all they want to do is devour everything for themselves.
Some antisocial people torch their relationships and get nothing while others get everything.
Despite being fully aware of all their frailty, a narcissist must never apologize.
And it explains why all attempts at 'reasoning along humanitaran values' with them are wastes of time.
Few ever feel any guilt.
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1990-10-09-me-1940-story.html
Coates is a national treasure.
🤗🙏🏾🥰♥️
G. K. Chesterton is more my speed. And when I feel like raising the Black Flag... George Bernard Shaw.
“In every society, the rich are the scum of the earth.”
― G. K. Chesterton...
"I don't take responsibility at all."
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/13/trump-coronavirus-testing-128971
“Words Have Power”
👊🏽
They. Do. Not. See. Us.
Protect the vulnerable from the ##FourthReich.
#IdeologicalSubversion
But I found it plodding
Fully agree
But plodding
Also, some truly believe they are justified and just want to be clear about their position. I doubt many...
I also think that in some cases there is just disagreement about whether "violence" has actually occurred, and the words are meant to express why the person with power thinks they haven't done wrong. (obv not applicable to slavery).