thanks for re-sharing this. i was just talking to a liberal friend who was freaking out about the incoming trump admin. he tried to tell me that trans girls in sports was the reason we lost. i pushed back with the points you made here and just sent this piece to him. hopefully it sinks in
The wild thing is that Republicans were using pictures of Mack in their ads this year to be like "Does this look fair?!" trying to give the impression that he was a trans girl who wanted to compete against girls.
I would ask a different set of questions, that hardly anyone has been asking.
Instead of saying "trans people are different, how can they compete fairly in sports," I would say "all humans are different, why should sports be competitive? why not cooperative?"
It's like in the corporate news shows, when the news reader has been talking about technological advances in China, and then says "how can America compete with China?" It's the wrong question. Ask instead "how can America collaborate with China?"
I am fully pro cooperation and collaboration where possible, but there's some competitive bits in our psyche and as someone who does love sports, I think it's a healthy conduit for a lot of that kind of thing.
Well, I disagree. That's like saying war is part of human nature, so we should try to get good at it. I don't think those "competitive bits in our psyche" are necessary or desirable. But I realize that my view is contrary to the prevailing culture, so I'm not likely to persuade many people.
i think there is a good model to be found in skateboarding, which is, "competitions for those who care about such things, and communal spaces for those who do not". there are skaters for whom x-games/street league/olympics are everything, and those of us who enjoy a parking lot or curb with friends
I am not going to try to prohibit competition (in skateboarding or in anything else), but I will make some effort to gently discourage it. I believe it is subtly unhealthy. That may be hard to explain, since competition is like a religion, at least here in the USA.
The right needs marginalized groups to demonize. They manufacture issues to create a moral panic. The rage farming is designed to destroy your critical thinking skills. Why can’t we just meet people where they are and accept them and celebrate their humanity
Definitely one of the best write ups on this. There is no clear answer. Problem is people demand simple rules when it almost has to be a case by case basis. The fact that this has been turned into effective propaganda by the right is disgusting.
…and plenty of other advantages. Some kids have to help support families or babysit their siblings. None of it is fair, and that’s OK, it’s still (in my opinion) a good activity for kids. But we somehow pretend that this one thing is a greater problem than anything else. It’s not about sports.
What are the consequences of losing to a trans athlete? The same as losing to anyone else, not much. And if you think high school sports are fair now, some schools have better facilities and better coaches, some kids have better equipment and parents who can pay for summer camps, outside coaches
2/
Thank you for this, Parker. The trans athlete discussion has been so poisoned that it is nice to see something thoughtful. I have coached high school athletics for over 40 years, and 2 things that are never mentioned in the discussion is that the stakes low, and it isn’t fair to begin with. 1/
I old enough to remember Rene Richards fight to play tennis in the US Open, she was barred in 1976, then won a court battle and played in 1977. She lost in the 1st round. Her transition did not make her a super star in Women's tennis
I remember that about DIck Carlson. I wasn't Implying that she wasn't a competitor. I meant to point out that other women successful competed against her. She was a very good tennis player.
I've never enthusiastically defended sports participation (just left it agnostic/neutral) and I still think it's not great optics if/when a trans athlete wins, even with all the underrepresentation.
Still, you made some good points.
I don't understand how the GOP got all the morons worked up into a frenzy over Trans people who make up about 1% of the population.It's a real mind fuck.
"Fun" (disappointing) fact: Shooting sports in the Olympics weren't segregated by gender ... until women started getting medals!
As soon as that happened, the IOC would split them. (and sometimes didn't even offer the event for women after barring them from the previous mixed one 🙃)
At the highest level contact sports (football, basketball) it probably wouldn’t go very well for most women. Which is not to say that there haven’t been women that could compete with men but the examples are pretty rare.
Like... the whole POINT of the article is that NONE OF THIS IS ABOUT SPORTS. I straight up say "Do trans women have an advantage? It depends!" because IT DEPENDS.
you're telling me that the demographic for whom "women's sports" was setup and punchline doesn't actually care about the integrity of women's swimming???
I always think about how nobody questions when a man has some physical genetic advantage - hell, its sometimes even played up and admired! But even a cis woman with a similar advantage is immediately questioned.
It has indeed never been about protecting women's sports. It never has been.
It’s hard to argue it’s about fairness after reading that. The anti-trans state laws and the trans erasure campaign fuelled by the federalist society… do you think it’s about creepy billionaires and their panic over white birthrate? That’s where I land, I would really appreciate your thoughts…
I am working at tracking down the originator, it is clearly US based, going down to State level - seems consistent with the findings in this Reem Alsalen UN report, of at least 890 medals won, beating more than 600 women, in 29 sports https://documents.un.org/doc/undoc/gen/n24/249/94/pdf/n2424994.pdf
It's disorienting to see my progressive 88y.o. mother, who took me as a baby to the first Gay Freedom Day march in SF in '71, start to question this topic based on her now very small media diet, (mostly SF Chronicle headlines at this point). This piece will be a good discussion starter. Thanks.
Important to note this line of attack reinforces the notion of male superiority/female inferiority. While frequently true for cis athletes at elite levels, it is at heart a patriarchal argument.
We don't even have a top-level trans athlete who went from elite in men's sports to even attempting women's sports after transitioning. Lia Thomas is the closest we have (very good swimmer both pre- and post-transition), otherwise it's like small-scale high school sports...
Thank you for adding the nuance that is too-often missing from these discussions. People are too quick to reduce this to an all-or-nothing debate. I very much wish the "norm" for discussing this issue becomes your three key questions.
Comments
Instead of saying "trans people are different, how can they compete fairly in sports," I would say "all humans are different, why should sports be competitive? why not cooperative?"
(thread continues)
It's like in the corporate news shows, when the news reader has been talking about technological advances in China, and then says "how can America compete with China?" It's the wrong question. Ask instead "how can America collaborate with China?"
(end of thread)
2/
when people at work
started to talk about competive swimming.
Something that never never never never never happens.
their new interest in competitive swimming
The conversation was always :
hypothetical baseball player,
"doing who knows what in the locker room"
(but they literally could not imagine what)
"Can you imagine how depraved the parents are?"
"Communism."
Fun fact: she was publicly outed by Tucker Carlson's dad.
Still, you made some good points.
As soon as that happened, the IOC would split them. (and sometimes didn't even offer the event for women after barring them from the previous mixed one 🙃)
It has indeed never been about protecting women's sports. It never has been.
So, given this 👇🏻 is where we are now, could some of it possibly ACTUALLY be about sports, and might need to be taken seriously?