The prohibition on attacking ambulances under the first Geneva Convention is extraordinarily straightforward—even ambulances that are being used by belligerents on the battlefield. ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treat... - ThreadSky

nycsouthpaw.bsky.social • 510 days ago

The prohibition on attacking ambulances under the first Geneva Convention is extraordinarily straightforward—even ambulances that are being used by belligerents on the battlefield. https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/gci-1949/article-19?activeTab=undefined

Comments

minimaldisco.bsky.social•510 days ago

the point HAMAS was using it not as an ambulance but it probably makes no difference to you

minimaldisco.bsky.social•510 days ago

*the point IS

but I highly doubt terrorism supporters have any clue of an ambulance purpose anyway

onlightfr.bsky.social•510 days ago

Humanity is being lost in there, where history began
It's so sad to see that ppl can be worse than animals, showing utter disregard for human life, which is, as anyone with some education will tell you, a miracle

morselya.bsky.social•510 days ago

This. Ten thousand times, this!

pecunium.bsky.social•509 days ago

While the presumptive status of a marked ambulance is "non-combatant; protected", Art 24 of that Section does allow for situations when such protection is forfeit.

The bar in incredibly high. While I don't know Israel can meet it, and suspect they can't, it's not an absolute.

pecunium.bsky.social•509 days ago

I say this as someone who taught the Law of Armed Combat for ~14 years; with some focus on being able to spot war crimes.

ericcrampton.bsky.social•510 days ago

The removal of protection is equally clear if Hamas has been using them to transport terrorists around.

But Israel would have had to have given due warning.

lyndonhood.bsky.social•510 days ago

Just glancing at a red cross paper but it looks to me like "actions harmful to the enemy" isn't well defined but is a higher threshold than providing material aid (this is *special* protection).

And personally I feel like collectively warning every ambulance wouldn't be an acceptable workaround.

ericcrampton.bsky.social•510 days ago

The rules would not work if they provided incentive for state or non-state actors to put bases in hospitals, store munitions in churches, and use ambulances as military transport.

lyndonhood.bsky.social•510 days ago

Maybe that's why doing that would be a war crime idk

ericcrampton.bsky.social•510 days ago

Agree! And it sure looks like Hamas has been doing this war crime, in addition to the others. And so...

lyndonhood.bsky.social•510 days ago

While none of this alters my reading of the rule, if we're talking about my preference I guess I'm saying I'd support a regime that errs on the side of cumbersome when it comes to blowing up ambulances

martingillie.bsky.social•510 days ago

Isn't that specifically about military medical facilities/staff with the rules for general medical facilities being qualified that if used by the military they can be targets. Eg link below articles 18 onwards (I'm not commenting on this particular case here)
https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/v1/rule29

pragmaticleftist.bsky.social•510 days ago

anthony.parts•510 days ago

I mean, we let ukraine do it, why would we stop israel

fdm2.bsky.social•510 days ago

IHL Rule 29 says they lose protection if they aren’t used for their humanitarian purposes, e.g., transporting healthy troops and munitions.

bexone.bsky.social•510 days ago

The IDF needs way better receipts than “because we said so, neener neener you can’t contradict us” that this ambulance wasn’t being used as an ambulance, bro

Transporting even an injured member of Hamas *does still* count as humanitarian use, btw

fdm2.bsky.social•510 days ago

Didn’t say what it was being used for. I was responding solely on the points of law. But glad lots of people are jumping in to tell me what I apparently said or implied.

jginsburg.bsky.social•510 days ago

I can say with certainty this one was being used for humanitarian purposes which is why the IDF attacked it

spectorhairday.bsky.social•510 days ago

Ambulances are not entitled to protection when not used for humanitarian purposes. That said, the presumption should be that an ambulance is an ambulance and cannot be targeted. The IDF continues to commit war crimes, as it does.
https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/v1/rule29#Fn_7E21FBF3_00033

surlyitjesus.bsky.social•510 days ago

The laws of war exist for a reason.

proudrebelscum.bsky.social•510 days ago

I really hate that I keep reading why this or that is technically legal in a war zone (this clearly is NOT). They are absolutely playing very close to the rules and crossing the line - if it was my military I’d be sick.

nycsouthpaw.bsky.social•510 days ago

I just have to say I’ve read and watched several news reports about this and not one of them explains why there’s a seemingly dead horse on the scene. Which is something I’d feel obliged to include.

self.agency•510 days ago

from last year https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2022/03/gazas-horses-still-shock-last-years-war

self.agency•510 days ago

and earlier this year https://www.palestinechronicle.com/animals-without-rights-the-untold-story-of-gazas-illegal-arabian-horses-photos/

yeets.biz•510 days ago

"the horse was also hamas"

fergusm.bsky.social•510 days ago

Hamass

idreesahmad.bsky.social•510 days ago

Most people have been evacuating the north via horse drawn carts. Taxis are too expensive.

ninjamonkky.bsky.social•510 days ago

That horse was Hamas

jpalmerdubs.bsky.social•510 days ago

Probably a donkey used to pull a cart of goods.

thealice.bsky.social•509 days ago

Did it condemn Hamas?

ozmodiar.bsky.social•510 days ago

Also why the ambulance is intact. Are they saying that was hit by a missile?

omrimarian.bsky.social•510 days ago

Was wondering the same.

tinavstammy.bsky.social•510 days ago

Animals get killed in war too.

Poor thing.

jaytingle.bsky.social•510 days ago

There’s a monument to war animals in London.

jpalmerdubs.bsky.social•510 days ago

There’s a whole play: War Horse. Made into a movie.

boboosen.bsky.social•510 days ago

The movie was excellent.

jaytingle.bsky.social•510 days ago

The monument, I hope, will last as long as the play.

proleartthreat.bsky.social•510 days ago

hang on..they say it is a war...governrd by the usual conventions...but..

arrest Bibi..from Argentina one day

baronnessmargy.bsky.social•510 days ago

Yup, that's what I thought. Thanks for confirming it.

geographile.bsky.social•510 days ago

At this point, I'm not sure they care about the Geneva convention.

jepsonrollin.bsky.social•510 days ago

The only thing the zionist's want is to eliminate all Palestinians, have for 70 years. This act was their way of gaining world permission to commit genocide against Palestinians. They knew the attack was coming and let it happen so they could gain favor.

picardsteacup.bsky.social•510 days ago

ah ah ah! But Israel never signed on to the Geneva Convention, so they're allowed to do war crimes all they like

rollerskater.bsky.social•510 days ago

...Israel absolutely is a signatory to the 1949 Geneva Convention, as is Palestine. This is also a declared war, meaning the Geneva Convention applies. I have no idea where this idea came from.

picardsteacup.bsky.social•510 days ago

It's a common reply from Zionists on twitter lol

paulheardartist.bsky.social•510 days ago

I'm moving to North Greenland.

eltopo71.com•510 days ago

Another day, another war crime.

kevinbuist.com•510 days ago

Is that ambulance on top of a dead horse?

joestradamus.bsky.social•509 days ago

The UN doesn't give a single shit, they are too afraid to drop the hammer on Israel and Netanyahu

deadbatdesigns.bsky.social•510 days ago

And even if THAT was not the case, if they were targeting a Hamas figure inside the ambulance why did they not wait for it to *leave* the front of the hospital? It's not just that they hit an ambulance with a massive bomb but they did it in the middle of a bunch of other vehicles and people.

stynkfysh.bsky.social•510 days ago

What does it say about attacking and kidnapping civilians?

madradhu.garbage.computer•510 days ago

Can't do anything about that sorry I'm just some guy

dgoldman.bsky.social•510 days ago

The Fourth Geneva Convention Article 28 however states: The presence of a protected person may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations.

reba.bsky.social•510 days ago

They attacked th ambulance—a protected target—directly, not a “point” or “area.” You pigs can’t make any valid excuses here.

dgoldman.bsky.social•510 days ago

What was their issue with this inanimate object, exactly? What benefit would it be to hit some random ambulance?

reba.bsky.social•510 days ago

They did it to kill medics and first responders and to terrorize the civilian population. We both know this. Does playing coy about the murder of civilians give your little penis a thrill

dgoldman.bsky.social•510 days ago

All you are doing is parroting Hamas' rhetoric. You ignore that Hamas uses these people as shields. And human shields is not a valid rebuttal against self defense. Hamas is an existential threat to both Israel and Palestine.

dgoldman.bsky.social•510 days ago

I care very much that innocent life is being spilled which is why it is so important that you do not misrepresent what is happening because in spreading alternative facts and false news you put more people in danger.

dgoldman.bsky.social•510 days ago

The Geneva Convention ensures that it is a war crime to target innocents. It does not invalidate legitimate targets, just because protected peoples are being used as shields. And it recognizes that in such instances the loss of life is on the hands of those who use that innocent life as a shield.

hedwigowlett.bsky.social•510 days ago

#NazIsrael does not care. Uncle Sam has #NaziYahu's back.

rollerskater.bsky.social•510 days ago

feel like you can criticise a genocidal apartheid state without comparing it to an explicitly antisemitic regime that systematically murdered six million Jewish people in Europe, tbh

hedwigowlett.bsky.social•510 days ago

A Nazi is like a Nazi does. I don't care who was Nazi before. I see who is Nazi now.

rollerskater.bsky.social•510 days ago

but do you fail to see how directly comparing a majority Jewish apartheid regime to an explicitly fascist regime that killed Jews en masse comes off as kinda antisemitic?

don't fucking call them Nazis. call them fascist, call them genocidal, call them racist. but they're not Nazis.

cathygellis.bsky.social•510 days ago

That text seems to assume that the other side is using the ambulance for its intended medical purpose. Here Hamas had coopted it for military gain to smuggle themselves out.

Plus Hamas itself completely violates the second paragraph by regularly using hospitals etc as cover for military activities.

torrleonard.bsky.social•510 days ago

“The Israeli military said it had carried out the strike on an ambulance “being used by a Hamas terrorist cell,” adding in a statement that “a number of Hamas terrorist operatives were killed in the strike.”

Insane that Israel thinks that makes it okay.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/03/world/middleeast/al-shifa-hospital-gaza-explosion.html

torrleonard.bsky.social•510 days ago

“The head of Al Shifa Hospital, Dr. Mohammad Abu Salmiya, said that 13 people had been killed and many were injured.

He said that paramedics and patients in the evacuation convoy were among the injured, but that none had been killed.

The death toll could not be independently verified.”

mikemay.bsky.social•510 days ago

Hamas has constructed tunnels under article 19.

carpinsandiego.com•510 days ago

Whats the fucking point Israel? I mean Hamas embeds itself under high rises, hospitals and ambulances for only 2 reasons. Either so ou wont kill them..or if you do kill them you kill hundreds of innocents. They want to give you a binary choice. STOP ACCEPTING THAT BINARY CHOICE!

maraleia.bsky.social•510 days ago

Biden has to suspend all aid to Israel over this.

apetivist.bsky.social•510 days ago

He won't

hipstersasquatch.bsky.social•510 days ago

The Democratic party is convinced that not supporting Israel 110% is political suicide, and I don't know when that will change.

davidreiss.bsky.social•510 days ago

It is… prima facie doesn’t change anything in this specific case, but the caveat is “as long as they are used for humanitarian purposes”.. In (international) law it is often the case that one has to look a step beyond the mere words for interpretation.. here, humanitarian functions isn’t questioned

clancyny.bsky.social•510 days ago

There've been many ambulances attacked and paramedics killed.

11 Oct., CBC: 9 ambulances hit.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/health-workers-gaza-killed-1.6992828

17 Oct., AP: 16 paramedics killed; multiple ambulances hit the week prior.

3 Nov., Turkish news says total = 136 medics dead; 25 ambulances hit.
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/gaza-s-death-toll-from-israeli-attacks-soars-to-9-227/3042502#

zuma888.bsky.social•510 days ago

halfcockedlaw.bsky.social•510 days ago

Yes, and there are requirements for what must be done prior to striking.

kozufox.bsky.social•510 days ago

Is there any evidence whatsoever that this ambulance was used in an attack? Or did Israel merely target it because they thought it was transporting enemy combatants to a hospital?

mykawada.bsky.social•510 days ago

"Hamas uses ambulances." Well duh, it's the middle of a war zone with bodies all over the place. Maybe they were just trying to get folks to the hospital?

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