Obviously loved cycling in the Netherlands, but one surprise/disappointment was these advisory bike lanes. They felt like painted lanes but worse since drivers are supposed to go on them. Am I missing something?
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I think the vehicular volume and speed of the one you are showing is higher than the intended threshold. With those attributes, this treatment becomes unsafe in a couple of ways. 30 MPH or less, and 3000 vehicles per day or less is where you want to use this.
As far as I can tell, its a two way street with one wider lane, the car travels down the middle which gives enough space for bikes on either side. If two cars approach head on, they both have to slow down and move over.
This seems like an odd use of advisory lanes. The little residential street I stayed on used these when I was in the Netherlands, but it was local traffic only, not sharing the road with the kind of traffic in your video.
When you find yourself on a road like this in the NL, it generally means that you took a wrong turn. It’s likely that the municipality hasn’t gotten around to improving the infrastructure yet because there’s a more dedicated bike route running parallel. May I ask where this is?
It indeed appears that there are 3 national bike routes, all with segregated infrastructure, running parallel (in purple). Sometimes busy roads like that can be quite unfortunate but always solvable with a quick look at OpenStreetMap.
Not really. They are a design solution in themselves. I’d always prefer separated infrastructure on a road as busy as this, but I take it over British roads any day.
These are the main sort of bike lane you see in Switzerland.
Yeah. I dont get them either
Only possible purpose I can think of is warning drivers to expect bikes?
I've never seen anything like the Swiss optional bike lanes in the UK. They do look a lot like this, though usually they aren't coloured in. They cover a large chunk of the road and cars have to drive in them as standard.
Not seen them in the NL though so not sure how they work there.
My experience of cycling in Switzerland is limited and, if I understand correctly, is different in different cantons. However, Swiss cycle lanes function in the same way, and have the same objective as non-mandatory UK lanes do. The difference with the Dutch design is worth making.
My understanding is that this design is intended for roads with sufficiently low traffic that conflicts are rare. There seems to be a lot of cars passing you here for that to be appropriate.
I heard about them, they're supposed to be for low speed (30kmh max) very low throughput rural secondary roads, the idea is to force cars in a single lane while still being able to have bidirectional car travel.
C'est une bonne question j'ai vu un truc pas trop mal mais faudrait que je prenne le temps d'en voir plus en résumé s'il n'y a que de la peinture ça marche pas faut des écluses
Yeah, these facilities are only ideally used when motor vehicle volumes are low and motor vehicle speeds are moderate to low. I did an in-depth interview with @bikepedx.bsky.social a couple of years ago about the application of these treatments in North America and overseas: https://youtu.be/4gzHL9KzFPQ
They work great in low traffic areas. No bueno for a main road. Personally, I really appreciated them since motorists would slow down for me. This post seems an unusual case for advisory lanes based upon my experience over the years
It just codifies intended behaviour on narrow roads like this. Obviously separate infra would be best but this is better than just a painted car lane. Especially with the difference in culture towards bike riders.
They aren't the greatest when used in NA, but Milwaukee added a small stretch to a road last year and it works alright, but not great considering most drivers are inconsiderate towards bike riders.
I came here to say the same thing - it's confusing, and the stretch of road in Milwaukee is 1) short and 2) unique in the city. Most residents wouldn't know what to do with this type of road marking.
Being ambiguous is the whole point. They eliminate the impression that bikes are obstructing a 'car' lane. Instead cars need to enter a 'bike' lane to encounter oncoming traffic
I think that making these lanes or bike boulevards the norm in neighborhoods is a good thing. The problem is the novelty in Milwaukee, so cars don't understand that they're in the bike lane.
Others have explained their function. Several places we’ve lived in Nederland used this solution in a range of settings. I always preferred a separated route, but this is better than an unregulated road. I used to imagine what the equivalent cycling experience would be like in the UK.
My understanding is that both directions of traffic are intended to share that one center lane (I could be wrong). So, it looks bad right now because all the cars are going in one direction. But if cars were going in the other direction too, they'd have to slow down and carefully go around eachother
It is one of the reasons you will fail your driving test if you don't routinely check every angle when changing positions in the lane. Left mirror, rear mirror, right mirror, blind spot, neck cramp.
I feel like a road like this is what used to be a bog standard rural road that the local government had to turn into a bike-friendly road or smth similar. If the speed limit was knocked down to about 30 klicks or similar, it would be alot safer and feel more like sharing the road.
They built one line that in Bromont. That call it "Chaucidou".
On the video in NL there seems to be a lot more traffic than when I tried the one in Bromont
Advisory bike lanes are basically more effective sharrows. As with sharrows, they are a useful tool to make a slight improvement to driver behaviour on a street that has been made bicycle friendly by other means (traffic calming, filtered permeability, etc). They are not infra on their own.
That’s not a particularly good analogy. The Dutch design works to change driver behaviour on multiple levels. And they apply in specific road categories. I’d take this approach over a standard road and British drivers any day.
Painting dashed lines does change behaviour like I said. But they only apply to certain road categories because they only work if volumes are already low. They will not magically replace British drivers with Dutch drivers. I also never suggested they were equal or worse to a standard British road
It’s not helpful to misrepresent the infrastructure or its impact. These are workable solutions in many situations. They genuinely aren’t the equivalent of sharrows.
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In many cases, replacing existing protected bike laces!
Took a different route on the way back but wanted to see a bigger variety of places
https://bsky.app/profile/cyclingcapital.bsky.social/post/3liynytn5oc2t
Yeah. I dont get them either
Only possible purpose I can think of is warning drivers to expect bikes?
Not seen them in the NL though so not sure how they work there.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Ar5wAEbLPMkkuFCk9?g_st=ac
No way it’s better than separated roads infrastructure, but they can work and it can be worse.
Of course, not the best route for the journey, either.
Not seen such a design on high-speed road. Definitely not sustainable safety design.
Looks to me like this is a bad application of it
https://images.radio-canada.ca/q_auto,w_700/v1/ici-info/16x9/chaucidou-bromont-velo-voiture-partage-route.png
It is one of the reasons you will fail your driving test if you don't routinely check every angle when changing positions in the lane. Left mirror, rear mirror, right mirror, blind spot, neck cramp.
Ask @schemerwoude.bsky.social for more bad Dutch country road experiences.
They come in two varieties: mandatory and non mandatory. Unfortunately most people don't know the difference.
The notion is that the car, is a guest in the bike lane.
Oh, I see the problem.
I found them to be pretty good. People passing me were really good at yielding to oncoming cars and bikes and giving me space
On the video in NL there seems to be a lot more traffic than when I tried the one in Bromont
https://lp.ca/67MSMK?sharing=true