But it’s ok for Russia to amass thousands of soldiers in Belarus?
Only reason they wouldn’t accept peacekeeping troops on ground in Ukraine is because they themselves would only ever cheat & never view any agreement of peace as lasting
No doubt that Russia is ever anything other than disingenuous
Yup bc Putin is gonna get the worst divested and then run back in gobbling more territory. Then he'll ask for a ceasefire after he loses another half a million troops.
I think the people in the west have to treat Russia like what it is, a very large banana republic. It acts the way it does because it’s weak and not to accept its BS. Fuck them ! But alas - now the USA has a president who is a useful idiot for Putin - so now we all may be fucked!
Q: Isn’t this the dude that Trump gave a tour of the Oval Office to during the first few days of Trump 1.0? No reporters allowed. No notes other than the photo op?
A: yes, yes it was.
The security guarantees are the prerequisite for any deal. You can debate with friends or yourself where you think any ceasefire lines *should* be or the status of frozen funds or access or mineral rights or whatever else you want to. None of it matters without external security guarantees.
Ukraine not being able to defend itself nor rely on others for defense is primary Russian demand, and forcing Russia to rescind it basically equals a Russian defeat (which is not necessarily same as Ukraine winning).
People pretending otherwise are deluding themselves.
Without it there is no deal. If the R position is foreign troops under any flag in UA are not acceptable, they are saying they want the negotiation to fail, but are happy to attend meetings where you talk yourself into believing it's not their fault that it won't conclude productively if you insist.
same with gop. negotiations intended to fail and trump/putin will blame ukraine, giving trump an excuse to stop all aid at bes and something really fucked up at worst
But also maybe not?
What restrains Trump from making the worst conceivable deal? Is there any reason to believe he thinks US national interest is a thing or that it includes Ukrainian or European security?
I’m not wholly convinced we aren’t willing to proceed on this basis.
Sure the Ukrainians won’t agree.
But if we back out completely. We’ll use this “agreement” as further justification or even action against an EU that seeks to help Ukraine. (Not for certain, but not impossible).
If you're wondering why UK government is talking about potentially sending UK forces to Ukraine, or why Hegseth is saying no US forces ever in Ukraine and European forces in Ukraine would never be covered by Article V, you also need to see those are all conversations about the security guarantee
It's not that UK or Europeans *want* to send forces there. They plainly don't. It's that all other conversations are blocked on this topic. And is why US statements /actively hinder/ the ability to progress to a conversation about ending the war or discuss what terms that would ever look like
From a European perspective the US isn't seen as someone trying to make peace, but rather someone who has turned on us and has sided with the aggressor. The dissolution of the transatlantic alliance has begun in practice and I think a much more self sufficient Europe will grow out of this
From this Americans perspective - yeah. MAGA doesn’t actually care about America and it sure as fuck does not care about Europe. Hey, could y’all try bribing Trump? Like a few billion to his crypto might buy the US military away from Putin.
Unfortunately, Putin isn’t worried about his economy as long as he can send ethnic minorities to the front with weapons of any age or kind, from museums if necessary. Western leaders doing what he’s been doing would rightly get their feet held to the fire. He just serves tea and opens windows.
Rubio looks like a clown here, embarrassing, historic economic deal with russia? Wtf are you talking about? they are using donkeys to ferry supplies to the front. They can't offer america anything material.
Russia, as with anytime they've pursued a ceasefire in recent history, is only looking for a pause to rebuild. They'll find a reason to break any ceasefire agreed to when they feel they're forces are ready again
It's obvious to anyone with half a brain that Russia is aiming to freeze the conflict so they can reinvade Ukraine at a time of their choosing, so a peace plan without security guarantees is no peace plan at all.
Genuinely, the very minimum Ukraine expects is to make sure any deal thats inked does not just allow russia to lick their wounds for a few years only to go back in to try and get the rest. Its either going to be NATO/EU troops or nuclear weapons. No inbetween
Russia has brought in North Korean troops, so we should put in peace keepers. Should've been done months ago. If he has a problem with that, so what? They're bullies and hypocrites.
BBC just reporting facts, not opinion. That is not their role and can actually fall foul of the regulator if they are not careful.
US press is very different
Will the Russians even pause their assault as part of a deal? Pull back troops and artillery? I have only seen concessions to them for free without any discussion what the Russian side will do. And stopping the assault and drain is a tremendous positive to Russia on its own! Possible with no talks
Why the obsession with getting the band back together. The USSR was disbanded for A Reason! Putin is after rare minerals and shoreline no more. Why else would he destroy the people and economy?
Right. Russia’s strategic aim is for Ukraine to be defenseless. Since Russia could invade at will, Ukraine would be controlled by Russia. Precisely why Russia doesn’t want any military protecting Ukraine.
The Cold War is in the past and I am not fighting it. Though Putin seeks to restore the Russian empire to USSR sizes.
They should know that Vlad Putin is a brutal dictator who kills critics, that he invades neighboring countries, slaughters civilians, and steals their children.
Republicans have been cozying up to Russia and Putin since at least Trump 1.0. And Trump's been cozy with Russia since the 80s. Kleptocrats go where the easy money is.
Comments
The Art of the Deal
Only reason they wouldn’t accept peacekeeping troops on ground in Ukraine is because they themselves would only ever cheat & never view any agreement of peace as lasting
No doubt that Russia is ever anything other than disingenuous
There's balance and then there's tacit collaboration.
A: yes, yes it was.
People pretending otherwise are deluding themselves.
What would stop us from agreeing? Witkoff?
I guess they will eventually be included.
But also maybe not?
What restrains Trump from making the worst conceivable deal? Is there any reason to believe he thinks US national interest is a thing or that it includes Ukrainian or European security?
Sure the Ukrainians won’t agree.
But if we back out completely. We’ll use this “agreement” as further justification or even action against an EU that seeks to help Ukraine. (Not for certain, but not impossible).
fucking morons
If Ukraine could hang on for another 6 months Putin will be sending people into the meat grinder on bicycles pulling shopping carts
The Russian economy is also on a knife edge
I'm not sure I'd like to be "boot" who has to rely on that.
They could call his bluff or assume he's drunk (NOT UNLIKELY), but it's a signaling exercise unless the US repudiates the North Atlantic Treaty.
(And maybe worse things for the Baltic states.)
This is WWIII.
you mean like the security guarantees we gave them when they gave up their nukes?
Why on earth would they ever trust us again - especially under Trump???
US press is very different
Someone needs to grow some…
https://www.npr.org/2017/05/15/528511980/report-trump-gave-classified-information-to-russians-during-white-house-visit
He's weak and totally unprepared for the world and especially how Russia really looks at him and maga US.
It will be tRump's Viet Nam.
It's our fault, he was allowed to serve a 2nd term.
26 is coming
How is this not a public relations disaster?
Where are the fucking veteran's groups?!?
They should know that Vlad Putin is a brutal dictator who kills critics, that he invades neighboring countries, slaughters civilians, and steals their children.
I know some risking their livelihoods to fight back.
But, mostly they're apparently sitting on their asses.
But, sadly, one of the most pro-traitor demographics out there.