Housing people is cheaper than treating the effects of people being unhoused Free school lunches are cheaper than the consequences of children being hungry Free medical care is cheaper than the costs of people being sick Universal Basic Income increases productivity and makes people happy - ThreadSky

partialobserver.bsky.social • 500 days ago

Housing people is cheaper than treating the effects of people being unhoused

Free school lunches are cheaper than the consequences of children being hungry

Free medical care is cheaper than the costs of people being sick

Universal Basic Income increases productivity and makes people happy

Reposted from Katie Mack

So weird how as soon as the pandemic started it became very immediately clear that things like socialized medicine and giving people money so children don’t starve actually work really well but now that it’s been a couple years we have to all pretend we didn’t notice that

Comments

lawnerd.bsky.social•500 days ago

Free universal school lunch is cheaper than administering a means-test and charging some kids for lunch while giving it to others free.

thewesterhazys.bsky.social•500 days ago

"Means testing" is a pox. The country is bizarrely obsessed with making sure no one gets any help lest someone who doesn't need it gets something for free.

lefttheprairie.bsky.social•500 days ago

Meanwhile we give out endless tax breaks and subsidies to people richer than god

partialobserver.bsky.social•500 days ago

💯

diana2112gaming.bsky.social•498 days ago

I've got epilepsy, peripheral neuropathy, need mobility aids, am immunocompromised, and live with extreme PTSD (among many other things). Guess who's still trying to get disability?

Because there's a CHANCE that someone somewhere is faking it (.7% in my state) I live through this hell.

lydiabeeyoobee.bsky.social•498 days ago

There is a blog called https://HowToGetOn.wordpress.com
that you may find helpful. a lot of advice from people who have been approved and those who were making mistakes without knowing it

diana2112gaming.bsky.social•498 days ago

I'll give it a shufti, for sure. Thanks kindly.

catblossom.bsky.social•500 days ago

It's going great in California! Our students get breakfast & lunch and it's improved so many things - including interruptions in parent workdays to handle forgotten packed lunches, because parents know their kids can just get a hot lunch. Kids can concentrate because they're not hungry! Outstanding.

lawnerd.bsky.social•500 days ago

My three plank program for education reform is:

(1) universal free breakfast and lunch

(2) school day starts no earlier than 8am

(3) massive ventilation/filtration upgrades

catblossom.bsky.social•500 days ago

We are on the first 2, we start at 9. Also doing universal Pre-K and free after-school. 💚

lawnerd.bsky.social•500 days ago

Those are also very important but they are more complicated — requires finding more teachers, for example. My 3 item agenda is specifically chosen to be something that can be done almost overnight with a check.

catblossom.bsky.social•500 days ago

Ventilation is tougher than you think, we have a severe shortage of folks who can do that kind of thing. Seems like everyone is waiting on repairs in our district, for everything but especially HVAC. But yes, I agree!

traceyangel.bsky.social•498 days ago

and stop using property tax to pay for specific neighborhoods. state wide tax for state wide school districts

catblossom.bsky.social•498 days ago

Yes please!

partialobserver.bsky.social•500 days ago

Yes! Even better, good point

plognark.bsky.social•500 days ago

Yes, but then you’re depriving politicians of the ability to give no-bid administrative contracts to their golf buddies, bet you never thought of THAT did you??

sandabluedeux.bsky.social•498 days ago

Homelessness and hunger in America are a policy decisions.

artdecider.bsky.social•500 days ago

Art.

weltschmerz.bsky.social•498 days ago

It's so WILD how the fact that it would hugely bolster a middle class..the group that spends all the MONEY ALL THE TIME AND KEEPS IT IN CIRCULATION AND BUSINESS HOPPING is ...not even considered.

the gods must hate money, given who they give it to.

banjercat.bsky.social•500 days ago

Agreed, but no profit for the uberwealthy

n5iln.bsky.social•496 days ago

But...but...PROFITS...GENTRIFICATION...

daffycuck.bsky.social•500 days ago

Those good things don't preserve the hierarchy that benefits the bourgeoisie.

triphazard.bsky.social•500 days ago

"Yes, but it would be even cheaper if all those people were dead!" -The secret thought of the people who don't need these things and argue against having it.

scottsantens.com•498 days ago

Happy to be the one to make this hit 1k. 👍

https://www.scottsantens.com/universal-basic-income-as-the-social-vaccine-of-the-21st-century-ubi/

jdeheij.bsky.social•500 days ago

It's great to see that in the Netherlands they actually started with a basic incomes trial and the results already show the benefits outweigh the costs.

hroethgar.bsky.social•500 days ago

Ah so that’s why the billionaires have moved from claiming that it’s unaffordable to claiming that it’s an attack on dignity.

vebate.bsky.social•500 days ago

If only people understood the full cost of not doing it. Our financial reporting in NZ needs some serious overhauling. We also need to see beyond short term impacts and look to long term benefit (eg best ways to deal with crime, housing etc)

venomous.bsky.social•500 days ago

you had me until the last one

I do not believe, if UBI were implemented en masse, that it would be worthwhile as anything other than an excuse for landlords to extortionately increase the rent and get away with it

partialobserver.bsky.social•500 days ago

Believe it!

partialobserver.bsky.social•500 days ago

Believe it!

deborah-c.bsky.social•496 days ago

I'm curious: the problem of unscrupulous landlords came to my mind as well. Reading those three, it says that all the trials were successful (which, to be clear, I thoroughly believe and rejoice in!), but they don't say whether landlords had time/enough universality to raise rents to take advantage

deborah-c.bsky.social•496 days ago

Of course, the simple answer to that (and to a whole bunch more problems) is "rent control", but that seems to be massively unpopular with... landlords, unsurprisingly. In the UK, that unfortunately includes a huge proportion of the ruling part...

venomous.bsky.social•500 days ago

you just linked to a deleted skeet

partialobserver.bsky.social•500 days ago

Thanks - Yeah it was a reply to a deleted skeet. I’ve posted again up-thread.

chhopsky.tv•500 days ago

even if that happened, which it didnt, why hang homeless people out to dry

mpbmke.com•500 days ago

If only one of our most influential Founding Fathers had said something vis a vis the value of an ounce of prevention vs. pound of cure, certainly everyone who refers back to them at all times would have listened to him. 🙃

foxbuntu.bsky.social•500 days ago

What about the inherent inflation that would come from pumping huge sums of cash into the economy?

If we give every adult US citizen $1500/Mon as UBI it's rpughly $4.5T/ yr

partialobserver.bsky.social•500 days ago

$1500 is a lot! Obviously large amounts ($1m / year anyone?) bring inflation. But more common numbers for US today would be $250 to $500 per month. Anyway check out the experiments! They’re really impressive

foxbuntu.bsky.social•500 days ago

I have seen the small scale samples used on specific homeless groups and small teats of UBI and they show promise.

Even at $250/m it works out to $750B/yr coming from the feds

foxbuntu.bsky.social•500 days ago

Scaling to national levels leads to an unsustainable situation for the gov and inflation

partialobserver.bsky.social•500 days ago

Agree to disagree!

partialobserver.bsky.social•500 days ago

Yeah that’s… eminently affordable, less than DoD

foxbuntu.bsky.social•500 days ago

It's about 90% of the DoD budget. Doubling the DoD budget under current circumstances and flushing all that cash into the economy will very likely lead to inflation further harming the people that need help

foxbuntu.bsky.social•500 days ago

I agree we have a problem, just disagree UBI is a viable national scale solution

dgoldman.bsky.social•500 days ago

There is no inherent inflation. Inflation comes from supply and demand mismatches. UBI fuels growth, and thus increase in demand so that helps offset inflation. Moreover, UBI done right can be paid out of fees related to the system.

One thing though: UBI cannot be built on government currency.

dgoldman.bsky.social•500 days ago

UBI must be borderless. That means it must be built on a borderless currency system.

magneticsara.bsky.social•498 days ago

There are so many lessons we refuse to learn.

ponderbooks.com•500 days ago

Abso-frigging-lutely

Everything comes down to...we could treat people better and have better outcomes.

Who'd have thunk?

euqinimodart.bsky.social•500 days ago

the issue here (to those in charge) is that people of color will benefit from nationwide care and they refuse to let that happen. This country overall likes being exclusive

mlamb.bsky.social•500 days ago

Sure sure but you have to factor in the cruelty that’s part of the fun.

partialobserver.bsky.social•500 days ago

People seem to struggle with UBI in particular - “There must be a catch!” but really there isn’t. We should do it, it will greatly increase happiness.

Resources:

https://denverite.com/2023/10/03/denver-basic-income-project-six-month-results/

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/02/the-results-finlands-universal-basic-income-experiment-are-in-is-it-working/

https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20200624-canadas-forgotten-universal-basic-income-experiment

acanuck.itch.io•500 days ago

It works IF there's no means testing requirement

Give EVERYONE a basic income regardless of need

randymiller.bsky.social•498 days ago

Exactly.
"What if a rich person gets it?" who gives a shit? They get off on millions of tax exemptions anyway, at least this is something that will be spent.

mikehinford.bsky.social•499 days ago

The U means Universal and also Unconditional.
Everyone gets UBI.

youinthebushes.bsky.social•500 days ago

The catch is a tiny handful of rich people won't have life and death power over literally everything and that really upsets them. That's why they work so hard to convince people that UBI is bad.

kaitmonk.bsky.social•500 days ago

I think some people have a moral objection to poverty, like bad things happen to bad people so we shouldn’t help them, if they were good people they wouldn’t be in this position. I blame religion. Which is so ironic given Jesus loved helping the poor and sick 🤷🏼‍♀️

youinthebushes.bsky.social•500 days ago

It's specifically the Christofascists- because if you were a better Christian then god would help you, but you are suffering because you are bad and/or because suffering gets you into heaven, depends which sect you ask.

diana2112gaming.bsky.social•498 days ago

And that attitude (along with all the rest of the hypocrisy) is why I burned the cloth and left the ministry, deconstructed my faith, and deconverted.

olivececile.bsky.social•498 days ago

What I find interesting is that you don’t even have to be a good or caring person, you can just object to poverty on an aesthetic level and still it should be clear that less of it is better. It’s so weird that it’s such a battle.

nylasmokeyface.bsky.social•500 days ago

I'm busy right now so I can't read through your links but my main concern is that it might not be financially feasible on top of other things the gov spends money and funds, especially in a huge country like the US. I'd love for it to be possible but I'm concerned that it won't be.

headfullofbees.bsky.social•500 days ago

There’s a bunch of evidence from recent, real-world programs that it’s leads to significant savings. The programs are a net positive for the system.

truebluebroad.bsky.social•498 days ago

anywhere they are giving tiny homes to the homeless is having miraculous effects.

partialobserver.bsky.social•500 days ago

Please read the linked articles or other resources when you have the time, I think you will be impressed

truebluebroad.bsky.social•498 days ago

not cuz it's not financially feasible. the unlimited gobs of money the pentagon gets is obscene. made more obscene that none of it "trickles down" to the troops.

sapalotters.bsky.social•497 days ago

Universal healthcare is a thing in a lot of countries, that should tell you that (at least some of it) is feasable

heathermoandco.bsky.social•499 days ago

Studies show it leads to dramatic reductions in healthcare costs in addition to reductions in crime, especially crimes stemming from diseases of despair, leading to net savings.

Poverty is incredibly costly to society.

nylasmokeyface.bsky.social•499 days ago

Oh no I 100% agree and I want it to happen so badly. I'm just worried it might not be actually feasible and it won't be a realistic step.

heathermoandco.bsky.social•499 days ago

It’s completely feasible. It’s only the ideological screaming of the political right that is stopping it.

truebluebroad.bsky.social•498 days ago

yup

homebrewandhacking.bsky.social•498 days ago

It's entirely feasible. Currently there's elaborate layers of means-testing and administration.

You wouldn't need that.

There's _always_ room for war in the budget.

fababomination.bsky.social•500 days ago

💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥

dlthings.bsky.social•500 days ago

Paddling a kayak so I can deliver this message directly to Senator Joe Manchin on his houseboat

devin-eleven.bsky.social•499 days ago

The pandemic showed us that the govt can help normal people almost as much as the govt already helps the rich. Why do oil companies deserve subsidies but the poor, the sick and the homeless do not? Maybe we should give away oil leases instead to the homeless and see how their situations improve.

wedgeantilles.bsky.social•500 days ago

Yeah but “capitalism” something something “bootstraps”

grumpygirdle.bsky.social•500 days ago

They know the price of everything but the value of nothing

connorlynch.bsky.social•498 days ago

I agree that UBI is good policy (at a minimum for people with children) and that we should house people.

I don't think housing 100% of the unhoused is going to be cheaper than the status quo, though, and if we don't adequately fund associated services, policy failure will do very lasting damage.

nohbodhi.bsky.social•500 days ago

Unfortunately, the majority of people seem to believe the lies that insanely wealthy people tell.

apocalypticanow.bsky.social•500 days ago

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, except when the cure is extremely lucrative

wscotgrey.bsky.social•500 days ago

Yes, but, THOSE people will benefit while my poor Roderick will have to not-have-everything to pay for it.

faustbot.bsky.social•496 days ago

How do any of them make wealthy, big ticket political donors wealthier?

petemilan.com•500 days ago

But... but bootstraps! BOOTSTRAPS!

kaxf0x.bsky.social•497 days ago

Ergo, those things are better for society as a whole. Who'd have ever thunk it? /s
Feel like I've been screeching abt this 4 years, but LC = it's hard enough to do the housework.

spiderandme.bsky.social•500 days ago

All those things that look expensive take investment, thought and commitment; generally rare commodities in politics. Neglect is more expensive but you can always cut costs and blame the victim.

sheadapts.bsky.social•495 days ago

The assumption is the housing and Healthcare will be safe and beneficial.
Unstandardized of either can kill.

leakestwink.bsky.social•500 days ago

to clarify, are you suggesting that UBI would fix housing/food/health access issues? doesn't seem to follow from the first three (correct) statements to mention UBI rather than e.g. a universal welfare state

partialobserver.bsky.social•500 days ago

No, I’m suggesting what UBI experiments have confirmed, which is that UBI improves productivity and makes people happier.

leakestwink.bsky.social•500 days ago

ok, granted, but what I asked was what does UBI have to do with the preceding three issues: housing, food security, and healthcare access; and are you suggesting that it adequately addresses them?

partialobserver.bsky.social•500 days ago

As it turns out, UBI gives you a good start on all three. I mean, it’s no Medicare-for-all but it would be a step forward. Ditto for housing the unhoused - it won’t get you to 100% but it helps a lot. &tc

needleroozer.bsky.social•499 days ago

I think it mostly helps keep the housed, housed. It doesn't cure homelessness, but helps prevent its spread. Far too many are one missed paycheck from living on the street.

leakestwink.bsky.social•500 days ago

thanks, agreed

chhopsky.tv•500 days ago

you sound very socially liberal fiscally conservative rn

adhdgobl.in•500 days ago

Seems more like they're saying that UBI is a half measure that doesn't directly solve issues in the same way that housing and medical care provided directly by the government does.

leakestwink.bsky.social•500 days ago

correct

chhopsky.tv•500 days ago

not the only place apparently

chhopsky.tv•500 days ago

maybe but that would be a weirdly incongruent thing to say and i’ve never heard the phrase ‘universal welfare state’ out of the mouth of someone who wasn’t about to say something terrible

nylasmokeyface.bsky.social•500 days ago

It frustrates the hell out of me. It's not as simple as "homeless people should get jobs" because imagine trying to find a job when you don't have perm housing and access to necessities like showers and clothes. Giving ppl homes = they're prob going to have an easier time finding a job = more jobs

sinboy.bsky.social•500 days ago

It's not even good for the capitalist overlords.

But if we went down that road, eventually we'd start to really question capitalism as a whole, so ...

tyrotcm.bsky.social•500 days ago

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