Never been a fan of shutting the government down, but the current situation is different. I believe that the public would be supportive of a "NO" vote by Democrats. Trump, Musk and the MAGA folk are a clear and present danger to our democracy. We need to fight back with everything we have.
and the $13 b cut to the non defense side halfway into the fiscal year is huge. it’s basically a $26 b annual cut, with little wiggle room since it hadn’t been planned for.
Schumer is voting for a bill that’s going to be the basis for massive layoffs in the govt because of cuts he’s voting for.
seems like at this point one of the things we have to do (which we've been doing to a point) is destroy musk
shut down the tesla sales, shut down the starlink sales, shut down x, shut down the visa deal (we should be able to blow out visa's phone and email lines over this) and so on
Sincere question - what's the endgame if Dems don't vote for cloture and the govt shuts down? What's the next step? Trump and Musk will indeed relish their position. When does it become a problem for them? Will they in some way forced to come to the table? I fear an unwinnable game of chicken.
The @democrats.org ended itself today, as far as I'm concerned. Maybe a few people serving in the house, @ocasio-cortez.house.gov or @jayapal.house.gov maybe, might salvage a political career in the future, after the civil war, but the rest of them have signed their own political death-warrants.
And, honestly, after this capitulation, giving the fascist regime full authority over them @democrats.senate.gov have also signed their literal death warrants, as well. The main fascist, Trump, has promised them that he will live out his revenge fantasies on them, and he now will be free to.
Musk and Trump have been shutting down the government since they took office. Schumer passes on the one opportunity to delay them. He caved and thinks people will respect him for it later this year.
Mitch McConnel wouldn't have done this. In the same spot, he'd have won concessions galore.
i don't see any reason to assume that this went any differently behind the scenes than other awful dem theatrics, which makes it extremely likely we only got more dems publicly opposing cloture today solely because they'd already been assured by leadership it had the votes to pass.
I wish I didn't find that argument so realistic. Van Hollen came out early against CR and Cloture but it took Alsobrooks SO MUCH LONGER and that is 'safe' MD.
it's a pretty useful method to understand what's happening as long as the right people suddenly step up to posture. it was super easy with the ndaa based on smith:
Called Schumer & Gillibrand 2x today; calling again tomorrow. If they can’t say “no” to this, they can’t say “no” to anything. Voting “no” will make Trump’s life harder; voting yes will make it easier AND sideline Trump’s opposition. And… in the end I think Schumer thinks it doesn’t matter.
It is not just black it is a disaster. Senator Schumer is voting for the abomination of a traitorous Republican continuing resolution!!
I wish would have the guts to vote no or just resign because he will set congress back again in the dictatorship.
A leader who can't carry @ 80% of his caucus should obviously resign. It's just as obvious that his caucus should demand that he resign and demand that a new caucus leader be elected.
If you’re ever tempted to wonder at the reason Senator Schumer does something that seems off, don’t overthink it. The bankers in his home state cracked the whip. It’s always that. And access to his banker donors is the reason he’s the minority leader.
Yes! What kind of country will exist in 18 months? Massive unemployment, deep recession, isolated by the world, explosive wealth disparity, hundreds of thousands dead due to cuts to Medicaid & Social Security. Polluted cities, abused workers. We'll have to beg people to come live here.
Democrats are pissed off and will remember this. Expect to see Democratic fundraising and support to shrink. It could have been a galvanizing moment. Democrats are ready to fight and we want leaders who will not capitulate to Trump and Musk.
But the dems keep consoling themselves with the thought that the midterm elections will bring retribution on the heads of the GOP. What makes you think there will be elections, or if there are, Trump will accept them? We need to take the fight to them.
Listened to Chuck on Hayes, hoping to hear something that might justify. Didn't happen. What I do hear from more and more are "midterms midterms midterms." And "midterms." Did I mention "midterms?" 18 months away. Look at the last 6 weeks. Seriously, that's not the long game, Dems don't get it.
You have to give people reasons to turnout in the mid-terms, beyond same reason since 2016: hating Trump. Been there, done that, lost twice, to horrible consequences.
At a certain point we walk away. This really is a moment were one doesn't care anymore about being a DEM.
A true dem knows how lies and misinformation lost us 2024. Right now they have an awful choice. To pick the better of two bad options...imo shutting down the gov't would give trump & musk free range to run amuck thru our gov't with no guarantee of ever opening up again.
Lies / misinformation didn't lose 2024. You can't stop R's from lying, or make voters disbelieve lies. Failure to see where voters were (populism) & why they believed lies, use emotional / mythic narrative wisely, & deal honestly with big donor influence were cowardly choices that cost them.
Rock v. Hard place. If govt shuts down, the govt employee cuts are put right in front of DOGE as easy pickings. If Dems fold, they’ll be reinforcing the Trump/Musk escapades. No winning move for us this time.
This is well said. Since this is the case - no real difference, Republicans have the power until midterms - may as well do a resistance move, and stand up for the Constitution and the rule of law.
Question - the piece mentions that if Dems are too scared to be a “no” on a CR, they surely won’t be a “no” on the debt ceiling.
But, if HOUSE Dems provide no help to GOP on the debt ceiling vote, but the GOP House is able to pass a bill anyway, are you expecting SENATE Dems to force a default?
Watching Trump dig himself a hole to win the midterms is a bad bet. Why? 1) 19 million Biden 2020 voters stayed home in 2024. Anger at Trump doesn't mean voters for Dems. 2) Now may be a fleeting moment in which opposition isn't risky. 3) 2025 elections may not be free; Post Office privatization.
Thank you for this, Josh, & for the great reporting @tpm.bsky.social has been doing. This pretty much sums up the Dem leadership: "When you’re weak you only think about getting hurt. It not only constrains your actions. It shapes and limits what future possibilities you are able to imagine."
What if the Dems cave and Trump refuses to sign the CR? If Trump truly wants a shutdown so badly, that's all he has to do and Dem Senate leadership will have been owned.
>>He says that “The fight is the midterms and every election from now til then.” That’s right.
I think this WAS the fight, the last two months culminating in this. D leaders have accomplished disappointing and demoralizing their own base. Many won't vote in 20 months when things are worse.
The Democrats apparently didn’t learn anything while being bullied for years by McConnell and other Republican leaders. All they are able to do wring their hands and mutter there is nothing they can do. Schumer needs to go as does everybody that votes in support of the CR.
The absolute worst thing about the Dem party right now are the New York Democrats. Dems need to vote them out of all leadership positions and they need to do it now. That state's Dem Party is just too corrupt and beholden to corp money. Worthless, pathetic losers.
So fucking tired of cowardly betrayal by Democrats. We know the GOP are traitors and need the Democrats to defend the Constitution and instead they cave. What useless humans
You mention that we need to slow down the damage as much as possible- but one of the arguments for avoiding a shutdown that I’ve seen today is that after 30 days the executive branch could legally fire all non-essential staff. Wouldn’t that be an acceleration?
Then capitulate after 29 days, and use the time during the shutdown to make the case to the public for retaining federal employees. So many American voters have tuned out and don't know what's been happening with DOGE.
I mean, don't announce it, right? And it's likely Republicans would offer concessions in the coming weeks to appear like they're trying to do something.
I just don't see Rs saying "take it or leave it" for weeks on end -- do you? And a budget shutdown would help focus on the shadow shutdown that's happening already, increasing media exposure. Again, so many Americans just have no idea what's happening with anti-constitutional DOGE.
What if Schumer is right, and what if all this infighting is making us weaker? Schumer trying to pull tricks is a very bad look though, he deserves some flack for that. The republicans at least have someone calling the shots, we have to muddle through this mess somehow.
Benefit-of-the-doubt is always a consideration where the people we elect to lead are concerned
But the history of trusting that "they know what they are doing" is checkered at best and for a long time has been whistling past the graveyard at best
Right now, strong & assertive leadership is needed.
He’s a chicken 💩. More worried about Dems getting blamed than he is about the country being taken over by fascists. If that happens Chuck there won’t be a 2026 election!
Comments
Schumer is voting for a bill that’s going to be the basis for massive layoffs in the govt because of cuts he’s voting for.
shut down the tesla sales, shut down the starlink sales, shut down x, shut down the visa deal (we should be able to blow out visa's phone and email lines over this) and so on
Mitch McConnel wouldn't have done this. In the same spot, he'd have won concessions galore.
I wish would have the guts to vote no or just resign because he will set congress back again in the dictatorship.
It’s always about the money.
I'm just not sure there will ever BE elections again. Oh, there will be things that LOOK the part, but the results won't actually matter.
It’s simple. The wealthy and comfortable good liberals of the Senate are useless and now the only real check is the markets.
Maybe if the markets had been down 20% their spine would have stiffened.
Normal people don’t have their cushion.
I'm not sure if democracy will still be standing at that point. Just the concept of voting is harder every year with the GOP getting their way.
Next they'll be doing things like expelling, jailing or stripping voting rights from all dissenters.
You have to give people reasons to turnout in the mid-terms, beyond same reason since 2016: hating Trump. Been there, done that, lost twice, to horrible consequences.
At a certain point we walk away. This really is a moment were one doesn't care anymore about being a DEM.
So tossing around "true DEM" is hackish.
They already have free range to run amuck through out government. The CR gives them *more* power to do it.
We got NOTHING in the CR. We gave things up.
But, if HOUSE Dems provide no help to GOP on the debt ceiling vote, but the GOP House is able to pass a bill anyway, are you expecting SENATE Dems to force a default?
Schumer not a wartime consigliere. Change of leaders desperately needed.
I think this WAS the fight, the last two months culminating in this. D leaders have accomplished disappointing and demoralizing their own base. Many won't vote in 20 months when things are worse.
PRIMARY both Gillibrand and Schumer.
Hell, get AOC in the Senate, for some real leadership...
They’re nihilist vandals but also responsible and compromising?
They want to destroy the government but would be disturbed seeing it shut down, and would cry uncle and seek concessions?
But the history of trusting that "they know what they are doing" is checkered at best and for a long time has been whistling past the graveyard at best
Right now, strong & assertive leadership is needed.
Midterms? Sorry, but a defeat on the CR will destroy the morale of Democrats. It's not that the Dems lost; it's that they gave up.