I've said this a million times, but I'll say it again: it is truly striking how many Democratic politicians, pundits, and commentators have internalized the idea that the right shapes public opinion and it is the job of the left to respond to it.
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Defining your opponent is a fundamental part of political campaigning. They all know this. They intentionally allow the GOP to set the agenda so they can collect donations, let the consultants (friends and family) get rich, without having to deliver anything at all.
That racket has been going on as long as I've been paying attention -- as long as they want to hear it, people will step forward to tell them. The faces change but the basic role stays the same.
For some, it’s even worse—the right shapes public opinion and the left is cowed into not responding at all. (I’m thinking of that Trump anti-trans ad that the Harris campaign left unanswered.)
Democrats are only interested in Republican voters, and it's maddening and nonsensical. They're losing 10 liberals for every 1 conservative they "earn" with their "only economics, nothing else exists" platform. Who is fighting the erasure of Black history, for example? Should be everyone!
History is not different. Let's not forget Nazis didn't have a full mandate in 1933 but they got alliances with monarchists and center right liberals to avoid social democrats, anarchists and communists. Ditto happened with Pinochet and Videla in South America. They never came alone.
Let's not pretend Communists did not call assorted Socialists "worse than fascists",
and then, when some communists objected to Stalinists insanity, they also were attacked.
Let's not pretend Nazi won on normies' support, they won on the coalition of batshit crazies.
This seems to be the part that a lot of Democrats don’t get. Politicians and voters alike. Stop pandering to the center-right, there’s already a huge coalition to the left that they keep ignoring. It’s causing a lot of voter apathy.
Liberals will vote for Democrats anyway.
Democrats will be losing 10 voters who want the visual of strength and winning at any cost. See the minorities moving towards MAGA. Those people are not "frustrated liberals".
I do see your point, but I think many of them may be frustrated liberals who see that liberals don't defend minority history or minority rights. So who will? Bad choices were made, but bad choices were all on offer.
Based on what "they may"?
"Liberals" inherently do defend minorities, but it is not what the representatives of minorities who went rightwards value at all.
The "lost"🙄 ones do not give an airborne intercourse about the people outside their group, including undocumented of their own ethnicity.
In our still well-fed but disintegrating at the society level world, the morass of every ethnicity or language group will drift towards whoever "feels" stronger, more aggressive, and more likely to punish its opposition.
We are looking at loss of democracy on left or on right demagoguery
Punishments seem to be all anyone doles out anymore, though. The only people who can't be punished are the rich - everyone else is fair game now. People respond the way people do, with fear. Who is trying to counteract fear? Who says Do Not Be Afraid? It's a vacuum.
Respond as in NOT nuancing Fascist White Nationalism as merely red meat fed to masses to secure the predatory billionaires remain predatory billionaires! As in not nuance the fact that Power is Republican politicians' crack pipe! And as long their King supplies the crack! They WILL SELL the BABY!
Exactly. All press coverage regarding🍊💩🤡 losses in the courts have to include that the judges were appointed by GOP Presidents. Like it's only legit if a GOP judge rules against him. Drives me nuts
They do need to respond to the populist right - but not by appeasing it! They must explain the real causes of impoverishment and enshittification and then START TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THEM! (Even if it means upsetting some of their donors)
I am not sure I agree with this comment. In the past, I don’t think this was true. But as billionaires have grown in the U.S., we have seen the power and control of media and the message and how that position has escalated. It is easy to get people to internalize this when there is only one message.
While traditionally this has worked out because Republicans just naturally happen to ruin things, the democratic party is thin skinned and will not stand for anything. Just looking to clean up after.
I doubt they're not benefiting from any of this either. They want this too.
I think it's relevant to study and understand the cases south of Rio Grande. Not saying copying everything or accepting at 100% (balanced criticism is fair), but it's clear to see how countries like Mexico, Colombia and Brazil did that with social and political movements and their connections.
That's why I'm claiming the moral high ground based on the text of the Constitution. The right ignores the Constitution and has taken away our basic freedom. To hell with that! They can react to me.
Like last year when everyone reported that the majority of Americans thought Trump and Republicans are better at managing the economy without going, WHY would you think that despite this mountain of evidence against it? Then presenting the evidence and going, Are you mental?!!
Any state is inherently bad
Any party is inherently bad
Look at the organizations like DSA that are aspiring to be a party. They are fucking awful at everything but being other powers' tools.
where are the competing outlets that counter the lies from Faux News, News Nation, Sinclair, WSJ, New York Post, and every other right wing mouthpiece?
It's simply a fact that the right shapes public opinion and the only way for Democrats to change that is talk like "leftists" (I.e., speak truth to power) according to the chattering class, and no one wants that.
Dems have internalized right-wing thought because they *are* right-wing.
Republicans are openly right-wing.
Dems are closeted right-wingers. Just follow the money.
So are you saying they should instead act in the counterfactual world where Rachael Maddow shapes mainstream public opinion? With no need to speak to ppl who watch Fox at least some of the time?
Dave, don't know what you mean by 'you types' but I play tennis and otherwise socialize with people who say "I heard on Fox that..." so it's something to be aware of if I want to be persuasive with them.
Besides energy, I've worked in marketing, where it's key to understand the customer - w respect
Fox shapes them and then you just find them there, already shaped. That's normal to you. What I'm suggesting is the apparently inconceivable-to-you notion that the left takes steps to create a competing propaganda apparatus, so that they are not forever chasing after the scraps left by Fox.
I had a call yesterday with a prospective Dem Senate candidate who had never heard of George Lakoff and kept structuring his responses with right-wing frames. It was maddening. I'm going to send him a copy if I can get hold of an address
Had a text from a Dem announcing his candidacy for the US House. A few paragraphs in, he denounced his opponent “Kevin Calvert”. Interesting display of his competence since his opponent’s name is “Ken Calvert”.
I would prefer calling Ken Calvert, "Corrupt King Chicken Calvert". Why? 1. He is too chicken to face his constituents at town halls (at least the voters who oppose him). 2. He is one of the most corrupt members of Congress. 1/2
3. He has been elected to Congress since 1992, or the same year Bill Clinton was elected President or the same year "Aladdin" or "Batman Returns" came out. When you are in Congress that long, you are not a congressman, you are a king/emperor. CA-41, please vote this corrupt king out.
It’s been my opinion that we should stop responding to any of it. We just need to start telling people what they’re doing. No need to engage when the politics are this bad faith.
Have they internalized the idea, or is public opinion in this country, as demonstrated by its history, fundamentally (no pun intended unless it suits your sense of humor) conservative to right of center.
This is pretty lazy language. The right has, in fact, shaped public opinion because of how aggressively they've beat on the MSM. Establishment media have given in and it's Democrats job to hit the media as hard as the Republicans have. It's the only way back to a balanced media ecosystem.
If your party is reliant on public opinion but averse to shaping public opinion, you’re the party of “Business As Usual” and the status quo and thus wholly inadequate to meeting anybody’s needs except your own, which is the Democratic Party in a nutshell.
I wish that the party would follow Bernie and AOC. They need to speak up and cater to the base and basically say the hell with the magas. If they say it long and loud enough, the center will shift to the left especially after this clown show. Also the party has to be willing to fight.
I don't know,
I am extremely cynical about my fellow humans
It looks like, when not in need, the majority, about 2/3 of any population, will vote for "fuck everybody" aka "diarrhea forever" and interpret "but what about your own mima!?" as scolding and virtue signalling.
Narrow path for center left
Not just in the USA. UK, France, do the same. But the right do shape opinion, because billionaires have the money to buy newspapers, TV station, influencers and trolls.
for instance, possibly someone — a Democrat or even just a celebrity — could fly once again to El Salvador to try to assess the safety of the prisoners
I mean, Biden tried to appeal directly to the left. Looking at how much goodwill and good faith that earned him even before the assault on Gaza came along, it's not hard to see why the Dems mostly can't be bothered.
maybe he shouldn't have been sending bombs to bomb children? why would he do that? it just seems like a massive unforced error
like, idk imagine if a candidate for president made puppies illegal. like yeah you can argue the other guy is worse in the big picture, but why did you make puppies illegal
And how did it get on the right to begin with, exactly? Could it be because right-wingers purchase all of the major media networks and use them to spread propaganda?
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and then, when some communists objected to Stalinists insanity, they also were attacked.
Let's not pretend Nazi won on normies' support, they won on the coalition of batshit crazies.
Democrats will be losing 10 voters who want the visual of strength and winning at any cost. See the minorities moving towards MAGA. Those people are not "frustrated liberals".
"Liberals" inherently do defend minorities, but it is not what the representatives of minorities who went rightwards value at all.
The "lost"🙄 ones do not give an airborne intercourse about the people outside their group, including undocumented of their own ethnicity.
We are looking at loss of democracy on left or on right demagoguery
I just wrote about this.
https://bsky.app/profile/thimbles.bsky.social/post/3lojk7feof22q
I doubt they're not benefiting from any of this either. They want this too.
https://bsky.app/profile/kellumdander.bsky.social/post/3lokq66buos2m
I don't know why Dem media/consultants/etc can't appear to learn from it, but it's all there
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/5024551-A-Plan-for-Putting-the-GOP-on-the-News/
That's why I'm claiming the moral high ground based on the text of the Constitution. The right ignores the Constitution and has taken away our basic freedom. To hell with that! They can react to me.
Democrats are fucking awful. Granted not as awful as the Republicans,.but they are still really really bad.
Any party is inherently bad
Look at the organizations like DSA that are aspiring to be a party. They are fucking awful at everything but being other powers' tools.
And what's with the libertarian nonsense? All states and parties are inherently bad?! That seems like an excuse to be bad, and reject accountability.
where are the competing outlets that counter the lies from Faux News, News Nation, Sinclair, WSJ, New York Post, and every other right wing mouthpiece?
not tipping the balance.
drowned out by more numerous, louder voices.
Republicans are openly right-wing.
Dems are closeted right-wingers. Just follow the money.
Principled conservatives (if any remain), the middle, & left sadly have to speak up for reality.
The press abdicated/sold out what should be their responsibility of reporting facts and holding all accountable in favor of counting stacked polls.
Besides energy, I've worked in marketing, where it's key to understand the customer - w respect
I am extremely cynical about my fellow humans
It looks like, when not in need, the majority, about 2/3 of any population, will vote for "fuck everybody" aka "diarrhea forever" and interpret "but what about your own mima!?" as scolding and virtue signalling.
Narrow path for center left
like, idk imagine if a candidate for president made puppies illegal. like yeah you can argue the other guy is worse in the big picture, but why did you make puppies illegal
Is a thing they’re going to get pushed out of it by the GOP!💙🍌
Public opinion *itself* is on the “right” and it up to the left — as a political movement — to respond to it.
If just "Americans are conservative, period, an incontrovertible fact, so surrender, Dorothy!", then puffery, as spouted on talk radio ad nauseum.
In terms of White Houses, "Occupancy confers legitimacy".