This may be an "old woman yells at cloud" moment, but I genuinely do miss when a game just released fully and that was it. No extra DLC content, no micro transactions, etc. Just buying the game and you get the ENTIRE experience in box.
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Wow, this post got traction! Suggestions of games from y'all that contain the entire experience w/o DLC/micro transactions:
Balders Gate 3
Hi-Fi Rush
Super Mario Wonder
Dragon Age The Veilguard
Sea of Stars
Animal Well
Bomb Rush Cyberfunk
Penny's Big Breakaway
Dungeons of Hinterberg
Ghost of a Tale
I cannot tell you how happy I am to see BG3 on the top of that list, because that's the first game that came to mind. I'm 1300+ hours into the game, have only beat it ONCE, and I am STILL finding new shit. The whole thing feels like a love-letter to gamers.
I know what you mean. I have 300ish hours in, and the last two sessions I found an entire area next to the Grove and a quest from a bird near the creche I had missed before. It's incredible how no two playthroughs are ever exactly the same. Absolute freaking MASTERPIECE.
Stardew Valley, probably the best bang for buck from a solo dev ever
To The Moon is an amazing one shot game
Breath of the Wild
Persona 3R/4G/5R
Islanders is a great minimalist city builder puzzler
Coffee Talk 1 and 2 are both super cozy and well written
Webbed is a fun game about being a spider
Honestly Elden Ring, it has a DLC but you don't need it to have a very complete experience
Noita
Risk of Rain Returns
Lethal Company
Tabletop Sim
Chants of Sennaar
Gris
Neva
Furi
The Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog
Awaria
Helltaker
Slay the Spire
Baba Is You
Inscryption
I general, if people are tired of having to do micro transactions and paid DLC, there's a wide, wide world of indie devs making fascinating, innovative, amazing games that are complete packages. If all you care about is the highest fidelity graphics multiplayer shooter, then yes, there's not really
an indie game for you. But if you really want a very fun game with great characters, great story, interesting mechanics, or a message, you cannot beat the indies of the world.
the persona games are the WORST examples to use because they always make enhanced rereleases of those games so you NEVER should buy them when they release (and 3R is the WORST example of these games because they didn't include all of the content in the base game you need the dlc for the epilogue)
The Octopath Traveler games have no paid dlc (2 has free dlc that's some cool challenge battles) and the games are fully on the physical media and they're so frickin good.
Sable is also a chill, beautiful, breathtaking game from a plucky indie. I say this as a cat with serious shooter habit, so it really is good if I'm praising a game outside of that category.
Back in 2016, it was unfinished, but it never had any microtransactions/DLC. The devs have been fixing the game and releasing new content through free updates for the better part of 8 years now. It's like a live service game where the developer doesn't care about revenue.
No Man's Sky is an absolutely stunning experience and is still getting massive updates! The community is extremely friendly as well. I will defend and vouch for this game's honor until I am dust.
I think it's also worth mentioning that DLC isn't inherently bad. It's about getting a complete experience without any DLC. Factorio comes to mind. The game has a $30 DLC, but it's actually worth your money, and the game remains entirely playable without it. Elden Ring also comes to mind
To be clear, we’re talking FreeLC and not paid DLC? Because while HFR and SoS are great examples of FreeLC (going to throw in The Messenger seeing how SoS is there too), BRC does have paid DLC in the forms of Beat and Jay as additional characters.
Is it a complete experience without them? Absolutely, but if you’re looking for completionism, they come with two personal and otherwise unobtainable tags in the same way most characters in the game come with their own personal tags.
I can recommend Helldivers 2 to go on that list as well. No DLC, no limited time seasonal content (each Warbond remains permenantly accessible with no FOMO), and while there *are* MTXes to get the premium currency, you can very easily farm it while playing normally, it's more pay-for-convenience
I think Hades doesn't have DLC. I grabbed that at $5 on clearance for PS4 a few months ago and I feel like I got it for a steal. Gameplay is similar to a Diablo style dungeon crawler. Kinda feel dumb for missing out on it when it was released because it's 6 years old.
I will add the “elden ring” chorus. Theres a lot of game there for the buck.
Also, fortnite does pretty well. I buy the season pass and thats it. And you dont have to buy it and its not a subscription so if you dont play a season, no loss. Not too bad for a totally online game.
I think the middle ground era of the mid-90s where successful games would get add-ons produced/greenlit after release if at all, they expanded the game without being necessary for enjoyment of the actual game since it had been intended as the base no matter what. That's the sweet spot for me.
It's a mixed blessing. We also had to wait FOREVER for bug fixes, or log into sketchy sites to get patches.
The first games I remember really taking advantage of people that way were Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3. I think the big game-changer for Blizzard was World of Warcraft -- suddenly all is WoW.
I agree! Now most games are "Gotchas" and nobody plays the games except to buy cosmetics, skins, weapons. (Looking at Fortnite here) I'd enjoy DLC content if it was something not put into the game because developers didn't have time, not just "more of game"
apart from the occasional super diffictult free DLC generated from its success (celeste farewell, hollow knight godmaster, spark 3 endless dive ect.), many indie games release complete like you described
I remember 20 years ago when Half Life 2 released and it was GLORIOUS! You got a full game with no commercials, no fucking bullshit, and they had this new thing called STEAM if you ever lost your game you could LOG IN and RE DOWNLOAD it FOR FREE!
most tripple a games are boring too that 12 man indie dev team can have my money and i’ll gladly wait for all the fun updates to a game that fits a super specific niche i love than a game packed with micro transactions that barely work
That's why i am heavily invested in GOG, if the game is single player, no internet needed. And a downloadable offline installer to reinstall your game should you lack internet.
Yeh. DLC I don't mind much, when it's actually a DLC and they release it six months later and it's clearly new content. But this, what we have? Kids don't even remember a time before battle passes were used to drive engagement long after the game stopped being fun.
The late 5th generation/early 6th gave us some of the most jam-packed games I’ve ever seen. I remember being stunned when PS3 came out and games devolved into NES games with pretty graphics.
Shoutouts to Tekken 3, Soul Calibur II, and Melee, the three fighting games that I compare all other fighting games with to determine if they’re any good.
I personally like GOOD dlcs. Elden Ring was a full game by any standards. The new expansion is even better. Some games are good enough to keep going. World of Warcraft is celebrating 20 years after multiple expansions. I love MORE of the things I like not less.
I hear ya. But a dos based rpg years ago had a bad glitch we could not grasp the candle to open dungeon room took weeks for a patch. And have ya ever fallen thru a game into either lol.
going to sound like a nerd for this but using customers as testers can be very beneficial in some specific circumstances: mostly in early access titles where the large amount of feedback you get from an active playerbase instead of solely beta testers can be very useful, see ULTRAKILL for example
still though when the early access game in question is updated for the public to test out its still in an incredibly playable state, this development model aids in refining the finished product while beta testers tend to help bring it to a playable state, beta testers are still absolutely needed
Sure, early access is a workable model - we get to test the game for bugs and help it to become less buggy or bug-free (what an idea!), but we get it at a discount because we’re working as unpaid (below entry-level) staff. That’s acceptable.
Early access is very different from fully releasing a AAA game for $60+ with a day one patch and tons of game breaking bugs. That's when using the customers as beta testers is unethical. In early access, you know what you're getting into.
yeah ik, though the thing with early access games is that they tend to actually be more polished than most on release AAA games, because unlike rushed AAA games most games that have early access still have closed beta tests before releasing the game to the public for further feedback
and you know what else i miss, the ability to get a game, put it in and start playing without having to spend hours downloading it....those were fun times...
I really recommend it if you're into the genre. you get SO MUCH content, so many possible routes, amazing cast and character, overall a memorable experience. It still gets new patches frequently yet the studio made it clear they dont intend to release a content dlc since it's a complete game already
If that is your old woman yells at cloud moment, then I must submit that I have been in my “old man yells at kids on lawn” moment for roughly 20 years.
Not an 'old woman yells at cloud' moment at all—it's a valid nostalgia for when games were complete stories, not ongoing monetization strategies. Back then, 'unlockables' were earned, not bought.
I don't know. The system we have now really sucks, you're right, but at the same time there are at least some games that release, and people really like them, and they just keep releasing more and more stuff for them for years. And it's awesome. #stellaris So I prefer the best of both worlds.
I like DLCs as extra chapters, sequels using the same game engine, but not as pay to win better weapon sets so you're paying a tax to be able to win multi-player games.
I feel like, outside of Mario Kart, Nintendo does a pretty good job of delivering the whole game in one digital package. I don’t often have to buy DLC or expansions for games on my Switch.
I agree to a certain extent, but I don’t mind DLC as much, cause it’s content that the creators wanted to make, but couldn’t make in time for release or something. Otherwise, agreed 100%. No micros, no cheap tactics to get you to keep playing, etc. it’s why I prefer indie games, lol.
Old age has caught up to me then because I totally agree. I don't mind DLC that gets released as a true expansion of the game. But DLC shouldn't be a place where developers put the parts of the main game that they deliberately siphoned off to scam purchasers out of more money on the back end.
This is part of the reason why I haven't played any new games since like 2015. And also, games that require you to be connected to internet even if not actually necessary to launch the stupid thing lol
Animal Well, Penny's Big Breakaway, Spark the electric jester 3, turbo overkill, bomb rush cyberfunk, lunacid, gravity circuit, sea of stars, world of horror, cultic, fight knight, the end is nigh, hylics 2, nuclear throne, celeste, omori. These things are out there for those who seek them
DLC is okay when it's a real expansion, like Witcher 3, or Cyberpunk 2077, where they were both complete games on their own, but added significantly to the story with a DLC expansion.
Throw in a 10-20 page actual manual with instructions, tips/new features, and unique art related to the game too. Now we're lucky if we get a single page that tells us to go visit a website.
I remember games having four disks and a lil booklet to help you clear it and there were magazines that would show you fun cheat codes or new methods to play the games that came out and they were all complete games (sometimes sequels to complete games- Final Fantasy, Devil May Cry)
Pikmin 4 managed did this! Several parts that felt like they could’ve been DLC were just. Kinda. Another lump on the main game. It was so beautiful to find more and more of these rabbit holes of extra little bits and bobs.
That's why I never buy a game when it's new. I wait until it's relegated to the bargain bin and all DLC is either included or available as free downloads.
I agree, and if a game is wildly successful, maybe they'll release some kind of expansion pack or two, but it's not just adding some new skins it'll be a whole new episode (or whatever you'd call it).
It seems like Super Mario Wonder is leaning this way, even though it felt rather sudden once I completed everything. (FWIW, I've never fully completed Odyssey.)
It’s fun but getting around the new planets feels wonky and the you can’t actually use the save file you are currently using for the regular game which is infuriating
One of many reasons Baldur's Gate III was such a gigantic success. Despite completing a campaign on the digital copy, I bought a physical copy just as an extra thanks to the devs for providing a complete game with no micro-BS or strings attached.
What? When I open a box and pull out a game, the outcome is different every time. Depends on who and how many of us are playing and if we're drinking during the game! It's especially difficult with Mexican Train Domino's when drinking! LMBO 😂
Yes, I have vague memories of those days when I had a wii. Gaming just don't feel the same, thats why I've been playing some indie games more now honestly, and/or games that came out a while ago like gmod for example.
Oh yeah I have been building up a backlog on PS2 games I've been wanting to play and so far have beaten 11, I'm hoping soon to build up a wii/gamecube backlog in the future one day :D
This reminded me of something @piratesoftware.live mentioned in a live once, he had worked overtime for 2 years on StarCraft 2:WoL, and that game was outsold by one lil cosmetic poney in World of Warcraft, it's sad to see but micro transactions aren't going anywhere 💔
A type of dlc that i feel is kinda justified is like rythem games adding in maps and songs that where released after the game came out of that they couldn't license at the time, it's better than releasing a new $40-60 game every year(looking at you just dance)
I recall Rock Band 3 lasted a long time thanks to the tons of songs it got, heh. DJMAX Respect V is headed towards that too, though I wish the expansion packs the songs came in were cheaper...
Remember when Expansion Packs cost as much or nearly as much as the game they were made for, and had nearly as much content... and occasionally were made by other devs using unreleased and beta content and were often inferior to the original game?
Check out "Ghost of a Tale" it hurts my soul that this game is now under $5 when far, far, far inferior games with Amex Upgrades & more DLC than game hold their value longer.
Animal Crossing: New Horizons comes to mind... The base game was painfully bare bones. Way too much of the good stuff was added in later as Free DLC. Then they Pay-walled off Happy Home Paradise, despite having features that should have been in the base game. And it's still missing oh so much!
Me, too, but last time I recall that happening was around the time of Windows 98... these days I wait for the games to be on sale on Humble Bundle or Steam with the DLCs included.
I admit, I'm a little torn on Team Sonic Racing going this route. On one hand, it felt like N64/PS1-era levels of barebones and was ripe for DLC abuse. (That and online is apparently broken.) On the other hand, I do applaud the devs for showing restraint and not paywalling anything in the end
We all remember the before times, and wish they were still so. Alas, we are cursed to walk this new path where everything costs too much for too little. 😂😭
You could always forgo the DLC for sure. Personally, I like adding extra content to a game that I love. If it looks like something I wouldnt like - I can always skip it. 👍
I heard a Crash Bandicoot racing game promised no microtransactions and released without them, then left it just long enough for the reviews to roll in with high scores, then added them. I really hate modern cAAApitalsm gaming. Ghost of Tsushima was such a breath of fresh air for being complete
I honestly don’t understand as someone who’s worked in IT most of his life why we allow the software industry to work this way. Games are just following suit with the applications that build them.
Me literally not wanting to buy either pokemon mainline game on switch because the games+the dlc = $95. And i wouldnt mind if it wasnt for stuff like them having extra story, or crown tundra having an actual good wild area from what i hear. Like couldnt they have just spent the time to get all this
stuff developed and in the game from the start? Especially consider games prior had much more expansive post-games. The only reason i even own Shield is from it being gifted to me 💀
It's been weird for me.
Business wise, I get it.
Honestly the market price to purchase a game hasn't changed much in 30 years, Super Mario 64 was a $55 dollar game at launch.
But the cost to produce has increased massively since then.
But, since consumers get really twitchy over $60...
Going digital is actually what took a lot of video game producers from going at about 5 to 10% profit margins on the physical media up to about 18% with digital distribution, which is where their industry average is right now.
Now with digital distribution, the more you sell, the bigger...
3 million copies at 50$ if we calculate 60% profit per dollar of revenue is 90m$. It’s completely fault of the developer if you require that much to make profits. Developing a game does not cost that much.
Why are you counting 60% profit per dollar?.
Earlier I noted that when it was all traditional physical media, it was about 5 to 10%. But now that it's mostly digital media and averages at 18 %
Can I save a good amount hence the increase in overall profit margin.
He might not think it, but servers were actually pretty expensive because you have to spend the money to afford millions of people connecting to the server simultaneously and downloading large files.
...they have to either hold back content, or produce supplemental content for a price, at a lower production cost (since everything's already designed, all they're doing is adding new content to the existing engine).
Games used to only need a couple hundred thousand to break even, now it's millions
If we adjust for CPI-Inflation a $55 game in '97 would be the same as spending just over $100 for a complete game with current buying power/$.
Which, lots of game+dlc is about $100.
Yes, but super Mario bros 3 sold 17 million copies. Call of duty black ops 6 sold 500 million copies. The market is massively larger so economies of scale are also helping cover their costs. Don’t fall for their sob story…
I just have to call myself out here, the call of duty franchise has sold 500 million copies, there don't appear to be public sales figures for COD BLOPS 6 yet. Other "recent" versions have sold 30-40+ million copies, so still significantly more than 30 years ago...
People keep arguing with me about the fact that a handful of IPS and major studios aren't suffering, so therefore no one is suffering from this.
But a lot of people seem to not realize that thousands of games get made every year and only a handful turn out to be highly profitable successes. Most die
Sorry, you said Mario 64, that sold 12 million copies. Super Mario wonder has sold about 10 million copies but Nintendo isn’t spending the money the other publishers complain about to make their games…
Nintendo's entire business philosophy is about maximizing what you already have rather than reinvesting in something new to learn.
That's why all of their systems are relatively low powered, but they get amazing performance out of them. They spent time to refine which saves money.
Oh no! I don't fall for any sort of sob stories from businesses. I'm just a person who studied business in college and decided that a lot of it was garbage. Often horribly misrepresented in what businesses are supposed to be doing.
I agree with the exception of something like Elden Ring. The game was complete we had a game... AND THEN BONUS CONTENT! DLC should only be an expanded supplement to an already loved game.
Lol you get apps, with no main course or dessert. That shits downloadable. And the price is 69.99. Hell no I will wait for a sale and the goty edition.
This is why I like animal crossing pocket camp complete. I have no idea why, but they got rid of all the endless subscription plans, in app purchases, and umbilical cord to the internet to play that I constantly rail against and just released the complete game as a pay once, play forever.
Quickly deleted almost every other game on my phone because that's all I need. Just games I can play anywhere, any time, without a bank account with a positive balance. It's like when I was a kid. I wish every game were this way again! 😭😭😭
I was even fine when DLC was called "expansion packs" and was "lots of new game mechanics and 10 missions" rather than "a mission, a building required for the game to be fun and a new outfit". (I'm looking at you, Tropico).
Also DLCs only being made after the game was a huge success as some kind of addition/love letter to the fans instead of taking a part out of the main game and selling it seperately.
Not DLC, but Tie Fighter was so incredibly epic and popular, they sold a second, physical disc of extra missions.
...which all sucked because the monkeys making them didn't realize that you shouldn't have to figure out a path in a free flight space fighter sim, but you know, like that.
Totally agree! ...also do you know what I miss so very very much? Manuals! I loved the days of buying a big box game and getting a huge thick manual, Microprose were the kings of manuals back then but some others like Origin and Spectrum Holobyte were good too. ohh Ringbound manuals were 😍
I do like FromSoft's dark souls dlc and elden rings expansion. But micro transactions and pay to win bullshit especially in call of duty makes those games pointless.
Have to go back to the early PS3/360 era for that. I just bought Stellaris on steam for $3.99 today but to get the FULL experience I'd need to spend $80 more on sale. That's crazy.
no no, nononono, this isnt old person yells at cloud, this is person has their head on correctly and understands what a good fuckin product is. if someone says you're yelling at clouds oldly for this take, annihilate them.
Not Gran Turismo 2, however. You could never reach 100% completion due to last minute omission on certain parts of the game without adjusting the completion calculator.
No Mans Sky - buy the game. They make updates for free. You play more .. you enjoy more. You don't sink more money. I like this. Not a future proof model, but I like it.
No Man's Sky is the poster child for everything that's wrong with the gaming industry. They pushed a product they knew was nowhere near what was advertised and people ate it up. Even the demo was rigged with a "randomized" planet.
And a simple "oops, my bad" somehow made it okay to do.
NMS is the only game I can think of that actually has lived up to the promises eventually though, and without making people pay twice. Not excusing Hello Games for the horrible release state of the game, but they at least had the integrity to fix it.
There isn't, and the success of NMS might be part of shitty roadmap culture, but, and the bar is in hell, Hello Games actually has delivered. Pretty much no one else has ever had that level of follow through (see most games with a roadmap being dead in a year)
I've given it a few tries after it's "gotten good" and it was just boring to me. Last proper time I played it a questline was entirely broke and I'm unsure if they ever fixed that
I’ve actually been into buying older games I used to love as a kid and it blows me away. A lot of the old games I have rebought have SO MUCH content in them and most so far have been a fraction of the price of modern games!
I don't mind the DLC culture that much, usually they not needed (minded it a lot in Assassins Creed Odyssey, though, when the game's like, "Oh, you want to know how this story is going to end, here's a DLC"), but what I really mind is the pricing strategy.
It was because the older systems didn't have internet access. Simple as that. If the Atari had internet access, you would have been downloading extra content.
That guardians of the galaxy game was excellent and had no dlc. They tell a complete story and it feels like a game that they actually enjoyed/cared to make.
The first dlc I remember downloading were the extra levels for Tomb Raider on PC back in '97. A lot of dlc back in the '90s and into the early 2000's was free on the PC.
The moment consoles required you to install a game like a PC instead of just being able to play them straight off the disc was the moment they became completely redundant.
i think its kind of cool that Hollow Knight's DLC's were all free content updates that added substantial content and lore to the game, as well as fixing things up and making the game better overall. one of these planned DLC's infact was so large that it was instead turned into its own game
Pokemon snap for switch left me so conflicted because about a week or 2 after it launched it got a massive content update, with how close it was to launch i just wish they delayed the game long enough to put that shit on the cartridge.
I do too. I miss baked in jank. It made some games what they were IMO. No extra time and updates to complete games after all the preorderers have already been scammed.
Comments
Balders Gate 3
Hi-Fi Rush
Super Mario Wonder
Dragon Age The Veilguard
Sea of Stars
Animal Well
Bomb Rush Cyberfunk
Penny's Big Breakaway
Dungeons of Hinterberg
Ghost of a Tale
To The Moon is an amazing one shot game
Breath of the Wild
Persona 3R/4G/5R
Islanders is a great minimalist city builder puzzler
Coffee Talk 1 and 2 are both super cozy and well written
Webbed is a fun game about being a spider
Noita
Risk of Rain Returns
Lethal Company
Tabletop Sim
Chants of Sennaar
Gris
Neva
Furi
The Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog
Awaria
Helltaker
Slay the Spire
Baba Is You
Inscryption
This is me not going back far
Hades 1&2
Balatro
Control
No Man’s Sky
God of War
Palworld
Satisfactory
Terraria
Return of the Obra Dinn
Half Life Alyx
Dusk
Portal/2
Ultrakill
Sifu
Project Zomboid
They're mostly indie games, which is pretty telling
Also, fortnite does pretty well. I buy the season pass and thats it. And you dont have to buy it and its not a subscription so if you dont play a season, no loss. Not too bad for a totally online game.
Pity we can't go back to that model
Then there were more new games as developers were not busy churning our DLC.
The first games I remember really taking advantage of people that way were Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3. I think the big game-changer for Blizzard was World of Warcraft -- suddenly all is WoW.
..which was stuff like monkey curling and elevator basketball, not grinding X kills with Y weapon
as a kid I played it for months just unlocking stuff and having fun
Ultrakill
Those are like the only 2 games I play, ever.
Nowadays gaming audiences need CONSTANT stimulation and marketing for them to give a shit about a game.
Therefore there’s a push for more “live service-y” stuff.
That game was awesome.
AND WE LIKED IT
(Also agree. This whole rental-with-options culture is bullshit.)
Because I 100% agree
Where possible, I buy GOTY editions so all of it comes in one box.
I'd pay $50+ for GOTA2 if it was available.
Support STELLAR game makers like this:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/417290/Ghost_of_a_Tale/
Business wise, I get it.
Honestly the market price to purchase a game hasn't changed much in 30 years, Super Mario 64 was a $55 dollar game at launch.
But the cost to produce has increased massively since then.
But, since consumers get really twitchy over $60...
Now with digital distribution, the more you sell, the bigger...
One of my favorite games was Persona 5. In order to break even they had to sell 3 million copies of the game.
Earlier I noted that when it was all traditional physical media, it was about 5 to 10%. But now that it's mostly digital media and averages at 18 %
, so $0.18 every dollar
He might not think it, but servers were actually pretty expensive because you have to spend the money to afford millions of people connecting to the server simultaneously and downloading large files.
Games used to only need a couple hundred thousand to break even, now it's millions
Which, lots of game+dlc is about $100.
But a lot of people seem to not realize that thousands of games get made every year and only a handful turn out to be highly profitable successes. Most die
That's why all of their systems are relatively low powered, but they get amazing performance out of them. They spent time to refine which saves money.
You're either a producer or a consumer.
No Day One Updates.
No Early Access.
No Unfinished Experiences.
Looking at you #Valve and #Epic
...which all sucked because the monkeys making them didn't realize that you shouldn't have to figure out a path in a free flight space fighter sim, but you know, like that.
And a simple "oops, my bad" somehow made it okay to do.
That's...there's no excusing that.
But yes, going to the store and buying a fully developed game for my NES or SNES was a treat when I was a kid.
https://pin.it/5BQLn9Ohl
I say AAA with a bunch of rhetoric. When I say AAA, I say "console to PC ports".